Overwhelmed with Frustration
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GhostofBTT
Banned
I have been saying this for years. I remember after Minnesota, someone posted about a series of tragic deaths, with the comments that "it kind of puts things in perspective." and "Football isn't that important". Yeah, but why do you need a series of tragic deaths to illustrate that?
I mean, I understand that some people have a lack of perspective on football (Durr, the era of competitive Iowa football is over), but when you read a post where someone has a lack of perspective on how football factors into life? It is almost kind of tragic.
I think the reason I never get mad about the football program is because I like to think I have that perspective. I know for a fact the reason I have never been upset about the Minnesota game is because instead of watching that, I had to go into a situation where I observed genuine human suffering, and not of the "KOK is teh sux" persuasion.
NewMexHawk
Well-Known Member
"Kirk, being from Maine has fresh lobster flown in I guess."
He can certainly afford it can't he... ;o)
Losing games by only so many points does not mean much; how about winning games by only so much? The same difference. If you have a team that plays it close to the vest every game and plays not to lose, almost all of the games are going to have narrow margins and over a period of time, you will lose as many as you win.
The bottom line is how many games you lose and how many you win. If you have a season where you lose many games (and some to teams you should not) BUT you only lose by less than 7 points in every one of those games, does that make you feel better? You still lost those games. On the other hand, if you win almost every game by less than 7 points...you probably are patting each other on the back telling everyone how good your team is and how great the coach is BECAUSE he wins the close ones. But does he really? When you total all the seasons, that coach is nothing more than a .500 coach in the B1G with an occasional good season. Most seasons are mediocre at best.
Personally, I would rather have a coaching staff put the hammer down and bury people every chance they get rather than get a lead, then go ultra conservative and sit on the ball and play not to lose. Even if we get beat by 20 or so in an occasional game, those things will happen. But we are still winning most of the games we should because we aren't sitting on the ball.
Sitting on the ball, playing ultra conservative, taking no risks, and playing not to lose will create a .500 team and that is what Iowa and this coaching staff is--about a .500 program in the B1G. Instead of losing games to Minnesota, Iowa State, Indiana, and so on...pour the coals on when you get a lead and (or) have any chance and those types of teams are no longer in the game. You don't have to hope they don't or you have to score on the last possession to win the game.
But if you do lose, you can always say, "Well, we are losing by less than such and such a game." Persoanlly those types of losses are just that losses. That is ALL you can say from it. You can make those kind of statistics mean whatever you want...whatever you want."
He can certainly afford it can't he... ;o)
Losing games by only so many points does not mean much; how about winning games by only so much? The same difference. If you have a team that plays it close to the vest every game and plays not to lose, almost all of the games are going to have narrow margins and over a period of time, you will lose as many as you win.
The bottom line is how many games you lose and how many you win. If you have a season where you lose many games (and some to teams you should not) BUT you only lose by less than 7 points in every one of those games, does that make you feel better? You still lost those games. On the other hand, if you win almost every game by less than 7 points...you probably are patting each other on the back telling everyone how good your team is and how great the coach is BECAUSE he wins the close ones. But does he really? When you total all the seasons, that coach is nothing more than a .500 coach in the B1G with an occasional good season. Most seasons are mediocre at best.
Personally, I would rather have a coaching staff put the hammer down and bury people every chance they get rather than get a lead, then go ultra conservative and sit on the ball and play not to lose. Even if we get beat by 20 or so in an occasional game, those things will happen. But we are still winning most of the games we should because we aren't sitting on the ball.
Sitting on the ball, playing ultra conservative, taking no risks, and playing not to lose will create a .500 team and that is what Iowa and this coaching staff is--about a .500 program in the B1G. Instead of losing games to Minnesota, Iowa State, Indiana, and so on...pour the coals on when you get a lead and (or) have any chance and those types of teams are no longer in the game. You don't have to hope they don't or you have to score on the last possession to win the game.
But if you do lose, you can always say, "Well, we are losing by less than such and such a game." Persoanlly those types of losses are just that losses. That is ALL you can say from it. You can make those kind of statistics mean whatever you want...whatever you want."
JonDMiller
Publisher/Founder
If lobster is served anywhere in Iowa (which it is), wouldn't it be flown in live?
BSpringsteen
Well-Known Member
Dude's in New Mexico JD - if it doesn't have green chilies, they don't eat it.
Golfer
Well-Known Member
Yes. But the point I was attempting to make (not very well again), is what their issues are when they meet. There is no pressure for success, except from the convenience store guy, and he isn't listened to as closely as the old boys.
I have to agree 100%. I was thinking about this the other day, and even if we had blown out ISU and Minnesota to go 9-3, we wouldn’t have been a better team than the 7-5 team we have. The way we played vs Penn State, MSU and Nebraska was more telling of this season than losing to ISU and Minnesota.
This is just BS. Why would someone even try to argue something that they have no knowledge of…..or has the staff told you they are just mailing it in? You don’t get the results you like, so they MUST be lazy and fat from past success.
It is a BS idea to say that because some people support the staff they are happy with 7 win seasons. The fact is Hayden only averaged 7 wins a year during his tenure, so people that make that argument should look down on him too or they are hypocrites.
You’re right, last year should have been a better record, but it wasn’t. Like I said above, even had we gone 9-3 by beating ISU and Minnesota, can you honestly say we would have been a better team than the 7-5 one we have? We would have just as messy on defense and as inconsistent on offense.
There you go again using the word satisfied. Many fans were happy considering how the season started. You do remember that we spent how many games trying to decide on a QB? Had we had Ricky as the starter from day 1, I think he would have been further along in his development by that 3 game losing stretch and things may have been different, but no one knew he was going to be the better QB yet.
Yes, we should have won all four of those games, but let’s not act like 3 of those weren’t to good teams. Pitt, MSU and Northwestern all won 9 games that year, so they were playing pretty good ball too. There were a couple of crucial drives during the Pitt and MSU games where we got away from the run game (which was working well), but that wasn’t the sum and substance of those games. We were all just happy that we finished strong after how we had started. It sounds like you want to dwell on how we could have been worse rather than celebrating how it actually turned out.
1977Hawkeye
Well-Known Member
That's the problem I'm having right now, though.. I too can deal with 7-5 in down/rebuilding years, but 7 or fewer wins in the regular season has become the norm the past 7 years (5 times), rather than the exception. Will the program bounce back again? Will the "3-year" pattern manifest itself again? We'll see.
I don't really care about the what-if's.. You could say we were 5 plays away from a 12-0 year last year too, but 7-5 was the reality. Or another play away from 6-6 (dropped TD pass by Indiana) if you're a pessimist. Or a few plays away from being 7-5 in 2009.. Or a few plays away from 11-1 in 2008. We could play that game all day, but I don't want to go there. The actual results are really what count.
whammer33024
Well-Known Member
lol what? he finished 4th in rushing in his final year. the 2 years before that he lead the NFL. sure you can make the case that he lost a step, but saying he was "slow and ******(whatever that's supposed to say)" is ridiculous.
yes, that's the post that stuck out to me in this whole thread. carry on
CFHawk
Well-Known Member
Actually he is in Ecuador.
Payton34Mase13
Active Member
OK...here is my attempt at perspective...and blast me if you wish...
I am 39 years old (40 next Tuesday)...and I remember my first Iowa game in 1980...a blistering 5-3 loss to Arizona as I sat in the south end zone with my parents and bunch of drunk adults.
Many times, I heard my parents talk of the 19 years of losing, not with remorse, but almost with reverance for Hawkeye Nation and how the fans continued to support moribound teams and coaching staffs. Remember, Hayden was in Year 2 and the Hawks were still a year away from the Rose Bowl.
Have we reached a point where we are spoiled, for lack of a better term, by the success that this program has achieved in the 30 years since? If you compare with what the generation before us supported, through thick and thin (mostly thin), and what we have the opportunity to support now, can we not gain perspective? An entire generation of Hawkeye fans knew losing and nothing but losing.
How can we define satisfaction? Each year, we expect our beloved Hawks to finish with a winning record. And more years than not, they do. The problem, if there is one, is that our teams teeter on the edge each and every season (another definition might be that they are ALWAYS competitive)...4 losses by 14 points in 2008 was equalized by the heart-pounding drama of an 11-2 season in 2009. When you teeter on the fringe as we see the Hawks do in most seasons, a break here or a break there is the difference between 7-5 and 9-3. I mean, yes, perhaps we know more about this year's squad by PSU, MSU and Nebraska, but a 9-3 team playing on New Year's Day would not be nearly as villified as the 7-5 team that lost heart-breakers to Iowa State and Minnesota.
I guess I may look at perspective differently. I am frustrated, yes...but only because I love the Hawkeyes and like most fans, hurt like they do when they lose and rejoice when they win.
Just my two cents...
I am 39 years old (40 next Tuesday)...and I remember my first Iowa game in 1980...a blistering 5-3 loss to Arizona as I sat in the south end zone with my parents and bunch of drunk adults.
Many times, I heard my parents talk of the 19 years of losing, not with remorse, but almost with reverance for Hawkeye Nation and how the fans continued to support moribound teams and coaching staffs. Remember, Hayden was in Year 2 and the Hawks were still a year away from the Rose Bowl.
Have we reached a point where we are spoiled, for lack of a better term, by the success that this program has achieved in the 30 years since? If you compare with what the generation before us supported, through thick and thin (mostly thin), and what we have the opportunity to support now, can we not gain perspective? An entire generation of Hawkeye fans knew losing and nothing but losing.
How can we define satisfaction? Each year, we expect our beloved Hawks to finish with a winning record. And more years than not, they do. The problem, if there is one, is that our teams teeter on the edge each and every season (another definition might be that they are ALWAYS competitive)...4 losses by 14 points in 2008 was equalized by the heart-pounding drama of an 11-2 season in 2009. When you teeter on the fringe as we see the Hawks do in most seasons, a break here or a break there is the difference between 7-5 and 9-3. I mean, yes, perhaps we know more about this year's squad by PSU, MSU and Nebraska, but a 9-3 team playing on New Year's Day would not be nearly as villified as the 7-5 team that lost heart-breakers to Iowa State and Minnesota.
I guess I may look at perspective differently. I am frustrated, yes...but only because I love the Hawkeyes and like most fans, hurt like they do when they lose and rejoice when they win.
Just my two cents...
BSpringsteen
Well-Known Member
You read it wrong, or I wrote it wrong.
I'm saying no one remembers Barry Sanders being slow and crappy because he never got there. He left on top.
Kirk is in danger of being remembered as an average coach that had 3 good years. You are already seeing people discounting 2008 and 2009 on this board.
He can leave now and let someone else rebuild the ***** and be remembered as the guy who took Iowa football where Hayden didn't - four top ten finishes in 7 years.
Make no mistake - our recruiting is losing ground in a major way and that is manifesting itself on the football field. He has to reinvent the Iowa story, the recruiting philosophy, or give the keys to someone else.
Already there a while ago and over the Hawks in football. I've had more than enough of Kirk & Co. and playing not to lose and then finding multiple/stupid ways to lose and not learning from their mistakes.
Hawk fans that want changes to occur are not spoiled, they are just tired of the pitiful excuse for football that is currently being displayed on the field by this staff. When was the last time that you saw the players show any emotion in a games that you see on the opponents sideline every game. Kirk couldn't hold Hayden's jock strap when it comes to fun football and charisma.
Wait till next year, if you thought this year was bad. And so on.
Hawk fans that want changes to occur are not spoiled, they are just tired of the pitiful excuse for football that is currently being displayed on the field by this staff. When was the last time that you saw the players show any emotion in a games that you see on the opponents sideline every game. Kirk couldn't hold Hayden's jock strap when it comes to fun football and charisma.
Wait till next year, if you thought this year was bad. And so on.
JonDMiller
Publisher/Founder
My guess is that Kirk would like to win every game that is played and hurts just as much if not more in the losses than everyone else. Guys like Kirk have internal pressure to succeed.
The only external forces I could see at play are people wanting staff shake ups. My guess is given his 13 years at Iowa and the contract he has through 2020, he won't be pressured into making decisions he doesn't want to make.
imported_UHawk
Well-Known Member
What I don't get then is why aren't they paying the players then. If you want to get down to it.
And to jump your question, why isn't Iowa fighting to get the NCAA to change that policy. The players are the ones who make the money, not KF. I don't go to watch KF. I go to watch the players.
And another thing on HN. All the apologists ever do is talk about execution, execution when things go wrong. If that is what does it, KF deserves very little credit when things go right then. The players are the ones who deserve the recogintion, i.e. show them the money. Most of this success KF had at Iowa is due to player execution not coaching.
ThunderHawk
Well-Known Member
Snowball, meet chance in hell.
BSpringsteen
Well-Known Member
I'm assuming if he is terminated he isn't paid 3.8MM a year through 2020 though? What are the terms of his buyout?
I seriously doubt that it is large enough that he won't feel some pressure, especially after next season if it ends in another 7-5 campaign.
imported_UHawk
Well-Known Member
This is exactly why you will be watching Ground Hog Day for the next whatever. Hawk fans will really get to know 7-5 for the rest of the KF tenure.
I hope the Sound Off negativity doesn't get ya Jon. Cause you are going to have to do about 6 of those a year. And then throw in a game or two where they win but it doesn't feel like it.(Purdue)
