One of Top Recruiting Classes in Kirk Ferentz Era

[4thngoal]

I like your approach of dwelling less on what they have been, and focusing more on what they can become.

When considering what the Ferentz-era Hawkeyes have been, all reasonable fans (and those within this conversation have been reasonable) vary somewhere between, "He's been a slightly above average coach, but I think we could do better" to "He's been a well-above average coach, and it is far from a sure bet that his replacement will be as good."

But no matter how you consider what he has been, what really matters is, "What gives us the best chance to close the gap on and surpass Wisconsin?"

Considering what Iowa has been (2nd tier in the B1G West below Wisc), and the recent changes in the program (e.g. recruiting changes, staff changes), do you think the gap is going to close? If not, it should be time for a new coach.

Personally, I see enough signs to be hopeful over the coming seasons. They have been solid if not spectacular, as Dean has pointed out, with lower-level recruiting and a below-historical-averages offense over the last 6 years. Their recruiting is on the uptick ('18 class is best in 7 seasons; last 3 years are 4th best 3-year stretch of KF era; 10 '16 and '17 recruits on last year's 2-deeps on each side of the ball). They also have a young offensive staff who might have unrealized potential as they are all settling into their roles (the optimistic view), or who maybe are not that good (pessimistic view). I am not sure their ceiling, but they have to be improved this year with more experience.

I try and stay in the moment is all. A wise man once said that to live in the past causes depression and to live in the future causes anxiety.
While I do agree that stars or class rankings are important, they are not the end all to be all.
I do however think that the current staff knows what to look at for intangibles. In other words, I'd take this staffs top 25 class over any ranked above it. Especially given the coaching abilities and now the facilities.
So yes, I think we are pretty close to taking over the West. Which certainly wouldn't hurt recruiting.
Which brings us to this class, including walk ons.
It's a pretty special thing to be part of an era of change for the better.

 

[4thngoal]

Oh and I love the foot on the gas, so by the end we have cleared the bench. We get to see freshman in live action and everyone wants to play. Best player plays.
That doesn't hurt recruiting either.

 

[NikeHawk21]

Now you are even Cherry picking what wins are good? So OSU, MSU and Penn St. beating up on a horrible Rutgers and Maryland over the last 5 years is better than Iowa beating up on Illinois/Purdue?

Iowa is 5-3 vs the B1G West over the last 3 years with wins over OSU and Michigan. It isn't like Iowa is getting dominated by the West recently

Do you really want to go there? You want to argue that the B1G East is easier or on par with the B1G West? I’ll gladly go there.

*Iowa is 5-4 against the East the last 3 years
(3-0 against Rutgers, Maryland, and Indiana)
(2-4 against OSU, MSU, UM, and PSU)

I’m not sure where you want this argument to go? Do you not agree that Iowa has been selected for some pretty underwhelming bowls? Do you not agree that Iowa has gotten walloped by the P5 teams they have played in bowl games?

Here is how I would rank Iowa in the B1G:

1. OSU
2. UW
3. MSU*
4. PSU (B1G championship & Major Bowl win)
5. Michigan (Finshed two seasons ranked in top 25, semi-major bowl win)
6. Iowa (slightly behind Michigan, firmly behind PSU, and well behind others, firmly ahead of Nebraska and NW)

So yes we are the second best team in the West. We haven’t really competed for many titles in the West but we’ve been more consistent than NW and Neb.

 

[4thngoal]

Do you really want to go there? You want to argue that the B1G East is easier or on par with the B1G West? I’ll gladly go there.

*Iowa is 5-4 against the East the last 3 years
(3-0 against Rutgers, Maryland, and Indiana)
(2-4 against OSU, MSU, UM, and PSU)

I’m not sure where you want this argument to go? Do you not agree that Iowa has been selected for some pretty underwhelming bowls? Do you not agree that Iowa has gotten walloped by the P5 teams they have played in bowl games?

Here is how I would rank Iowa in the B1G:

1. OSU
2. UW
3. MSU*
4. PSU (B1G championship & Major Bowl win)
5. Michigan (Finshed two seasons ranked in top 25, semi-major bowl win)
6. Iowa (slightly behind Michigan, firmly behind PSU, and well behind others, firmly ahead of Nebraska and NW)

So yes we are the second best team in the West. We haven’t really competed for many titles in the West but we’ve been more consistent than NW and Neb.

That's about how I see it too. However, we can't control the East. Yes there is a disparity, but really all we can do is, win our cross overs (50% against the better ones so far) and convincingly and consistently win the West.
Let's start with what we can do.

 

[4thngoal]

^^^^^^
That tells me that, every time we win the West, we have a 50/50 shot against whoever the East sends to Indy. ( Who would have said that a few years back when we were fighting to get Floyd back in the case?)
The key words are convincingly and consistently winning the West.

 

[deanvogs]

Do you really want to go there? You want to argue that the B1G East is easier or on par with the B1G West? I’ll gladly go there.

*Iowa is 5-4 against the East the last 3 years
(3-0 against Rutgers, Maryland, and Indiana)
(2-4 against OSU, MSU, UM, and PSU)

I’m not sure where you want this argument to go? Do you not agree that Iowa has been selected for some pretty underwhelming bowls? Do you not agree that Iowa has gotten walloped by the P5 teams they have played in bowl games?

Here is how I would rank Iowa in the B1G:

1. OSU
2. UW
3. MSU*
4. PSU (B1G championship & Major Bowl win)
5. Michigan (Finshed two seasons ranked in top 25, semi-major bowl win)
6. Iowa (slightly behind Michigan, firmly behind PSU, and well behind others, firmly ahead of Nebraska and NW)

So yes we are the second best team in the West. We haven’t really competed for many titles in the West but we’ve been more consistent than NW and Neb.

What do bowl games have to do with it? We have played in the Rose Bowl and Outback bowl in 2 of the last 3 years. I'm not even sure what you are bitching about there?

Now you are arguing just to argue. You want to cherry pick year, you want to cherry pick what wins are good, you want to cherry pick what bowls are good now? Stop Cherry picking everything and just look at the data that I laid out. Those are wins both overall and in conference compared to other B1G teams. It seems you are bound and determined to pick over those and only apply the ones you want to arrive at your predetermined conclusion.

 

[4thngoal]

What do bowl games have to do with it? We have played in the Rose Bowl and Outback bowl in 2 of the last 3 years. I'm not even sure what you are bitching about there?

Now you are arguing just to argue. You want to cherry pick year, you want to cherry pick what wins are good, you want to cherry pick what bowls are good now? Stop Cherry picking everything and just look at the data that I laid out. Those are wins both overall and in conference compared to other B1G teams. It seems you are bound and determined to pick over those and only apply the ones you want to arrive at your predetermined conclusion.

In all fairness, that Rose bowl was EMBARRASSING.
That is not cherry picking, that's a fact.
Yes we made it there, but ish.
That's like getting invited to the Playboy mansion and having whiskey dick. Excuse the language.

 

[deanvogs]

In all fairness, that Rose bowl was EMBARRASSING.
That is not cherry picking, that's a fact.
Yes we made it there, but ish.
That's like getting invited to the Playboy mansion and having whiskey dick. Excuse the language.

He said we have been in underwhelming bowls. How is the Rose Bowl and Outback bowl underwhelming.

 

[4thngoal]

He said we have been in underwhelming bowls. How is the Rose Bowl and Outback bowl underwhelming.

Again would you brag about going to the Playboy mansion under the circumstances I said?
We even put a fight in Indy, but wowsers that Rose was pathetic at best.

 

[4thngoal]

I see what you are saying. Bowl pecking order. Sorry.

 

[NikeHawk21]

What do bowl games have to do with it? We have played in the Rose Bowl and Outback bowl in 2 of the last 3 years. I'm not even sure what you are bitching about there?

Now you are arguing just to argue. You want to cherry pick year, you want to cherry pick what wins are good, you want to cherry pick what bowls are good now? Stop Cherry picking everything and just look at the data that I laid out. Those are wins both overall and in conference compared to other B1G teams. It seems you are bound and determined to pick over those and only apply the ones you want to arrive at your predetermined conclusion.

That’s literally like the 5th time I’ve mentioned bowls and Iowa’s performance in them. You never answered so I continued to ask. What do you think of Iowa’s performance in bowls?

If someone thinks that Iowa generally plays a weak non conference slate, and plays in a weaker division of their league, and then when that team matches up with other P5 teams in bowls they get pummeled, does that strengthen that argument? I certainly think it does. Let me know where you are getting confused with that.

You can trust your “wins since” stat as far as you can throw it in my opinion. The truth of the matter is Iowa is a slightly above average B1G program.

 

[deanvogs]

That’s literally like the 5th time I’ve mentioned bowls and Iowa’s performance in them. You never answered so I continued to ask. What do you think of Iowa’s performance in bowls?

If someone thinks that Iowa generally plays a weak non conference slate, and plays in a weaker division of their league, and then when that team matches up with other P5 teams in bowls they get pummeled, does that strengthen that argument? I certainly think it does. Let me know where you are getting confused with that.

You can trust your “wins since” stat as far as you can throw it in my opinion. The truth of the matter is Iowa is a slightly above average B1G program.

Here is how I would break it down:

Top tier: OSU, Wisconsin, MSU (40+ wins)
2nd Tier: Iowa, Penn St., Michigan (40-45 wins)
3rd Tier: Northwestern, Nebraska, Minnesota (36 & 37 wins)
Bottom Tier: Maryland, Indiana, Ill. and Rutgers (27 wins or less) YOu

It is pretty clear. It is black and white, the Tiers jump out at you really. Just my opinion, and obviously you disagree with that. Now if you want to Cherry pick what counts and what doesn't, you can come up with your own tiers.

As far as Bowl games go, we have stunk over the last several years. Yet it is just one game of 13 or 14 games, it doesn't define the season. For instance we got boat raced in one game in 2015, so what? We boat raced OSU this year, it happens.

 

[Ree4]

Big 10 East is top heavy while the West is more balanced I feel. Too lazy to look it up but West Vs East stats were really quite even over the last few years IIRC.

The bowl matchups rarely favor us and place teams that finished higher in their respective conference than where we finished.
2011 Insight Bowl: Iowa (t-6th in B10) vs Oklahoma (4th in B12 and ranked)
In the 2016 Rose bowl it was the B10 runner up against the P12 champ. Stanford did everything right that day and we didn't do anything right. Similar to Iowa Vs OSU in 2017.

In the 2017 Outback bowl it was Iowa (tied for 5th in B10) against Florida who was 2nd and won their division.

The 2014 Outback we finished higher in our conference than fake-injury LSU and the Taxslayer Bowl was terrible against a pretty bad Tennessee team.

Not to mention our bowl games are regularly against teams playing ~ 1 hour from home. Would love to play a southern team (not Alabama) up north in late Dec early January.

 

[4thngoal]

I understand what you mean, but unless in a stadium with a Geo thermal field, you nor anyone would.
Being outranked in bowls is fair to say, but like I said I do have an appreciation for this staff, but excuses I don't. You can't run around making excuses all the time. I get that it's fact blah blah and still don't care.
It's what everyone signed up for.

 

[MoseSchrute]

Not to mention our bowl games are regularly against teams playing ~ 1 hour from home. Would love to play a southern team (not Alabama) up north in late Dec early January.

I'd gladly go for a shot against Alabama in the north in January, seeing as how they never even go north of the Mason-Dixon line.

 

[Ree4]

I'd gladly go for a shot against Alabama in the north in January, seeing as how they never even go north of the Mason-Dixon line.

While I think it would be interesting I feel their power play style would translate better than other spread/speed teams from the south.

 

[VTHawk]

What do bowl games have to do with it? We have played in the Rose Bowl and Outback bowl in 2 of the last 3 years. I'm not even sure what you are bitching about there?

Now you are arguing just to argue. You want to cherry pick year, you want to cherry pick what wins are good, you want to cherry pick what bowls are good now? Stop Cherry picking everything and just look at the data that I laid out. Those are wins both overall and in conference compared to other B1G teams. It seems you are bound and determined to pick over those and only apply the ones you want to arrive at your predetermined conclusion.

I think his point is that wins and losses do not tell the whole story about a team. I think its a pretty reasonable argument.

 

[taffaej]

We will see in 4 years. Coach hasn’t set the bar very high when it comes to recruiting so it doesn’t take much to have a “better” recruiting class and still end up at the bottom half of the league

 

[deanvogs]

I think his point is that wins and losses do not tell the whole story about a team. I think its a pretty reasonable argument.

Then that is a dumb point. You are what you record says you are. You can only play who is on your schedule (good or bad), and you have to line up and win the games.

 

[NoBeer]

Except for the fact that a total of 2.2 points (on a scale of 100) separate the average player rankings of Iowa and Michigan's 3rd ranked class.

Can you elaborate on this? I want to believe you but I refuse to believe on a scale of 100, Iowa is that close to Michigan in recruiting.

Iowa consistently puts out NFL-caliber players, many of them immediate or eventual starters, and several Pro Bowlers.

Yeah, I'm a minority Iowa fan in my workplace. I tried to use the NFL stats one time in an argument. A few years ago Iowa was like 3rd in the conference with number of players active on a roster in the NFL. My coworker said, "Why do you suck so bad then?" It was and is a great question.