******OFFICIAL: WHO WILL BE KNEELING THIS FALL THREAD*******

[hawkeyebob62]

Fess up ya bunch of racists and saints

At home, or at the sports bar? At the bar, I save my...ahem..."kneeling" for later...after about 12 to 15 beers.

Last game (@NW last Fall) I waited as late as possible to get to seat because of wind/rain.

As a transplant to Florida, I don't get to Iowa City much, if at all.

 

[99topdawg]

One thing I don't agree with him on (unless I read it wrong), he agrees with Doyle that he hasn't done shit for the program. He's wrong.

 

[HawkeyeWalker]

I likely won't kneel, but I'll fully support the players to do so. I also personally don't believe kneeling, silently, peacefully, in any way disrespect the flag, military, veterans....and if it is a catalyst to continue the awareness and discussion going....even better. My opinion.

I know multiple veterans that are all for and support their right to do so, others that are not in favor of it, but support their 1st amendment right, and a much smaller few that reject it completely.

Basically, they are a microcosm of the fanbase as a whole.

 

[HawkGold]

Actually kneeling doestdoes bring unity. Did it at a protest. 8:46 is really overwhelming. Something like 2:45 not moving at all. Black, Hispanic and white. Police chief did the siren at 8:46.

800 people in a town of 8000. Made an impact.

 

[4thngoal]

That's just stupid. This is also a flag of rebellion today. In the past and now it is also the flag of those wanting to keep the status quo.

To those who were on the receiving end of slavery, this was the equivalent symbol.

The UN estimates 17 million died from the slave trade around the world btw.
You don't won't to compare:

And if we forget. Erase from history. We shall forget and repeat.
So I'll ask again what does this new flag you wish to raise stand for? I caution you that the old people were very intelligent and if your plans are for you, a group and not inclusive and well detailed, well then I guess you can kiss my ass.
I'm betting that no counselor ever said just forget about it. It didn't happen.

 

[HawkGold]

And if we forget. Erase from history. We shall forget and repeat.
So I'll ask again what does this new flag you wish to raise stand for? I caution you that the old people were very intelligent and if your plans are for you, a group and not inclusive and well detailed, well then I guess you can kiss my ass.
I'm betting that no counselor ever said just forget about it. It didn't happen.

Your argument is weak. Of course don't forget history. That doesn't mean celebrating it. Germany seems to do well without the swastika. Part of the war in Ukraine is fought over that swastika. The US 101 was training militia with swastika patches.

You know darn good and well the foundation of that flag and what the intention is. I've seen no Betsy Ross statues and I don't forget who she is.

 

[4thngoal]

Your argument is weak. Of course don't forget history. That doesn't mean celebrating it. Germany seems to do well without the swastika. Part of the war in Ukraine is fought over that swastika. The US 101 was training militia with swastika patches.

You know darn good and well the foundation of that flag and what the intention is. I've seen no Betsy Ross statues and I don't forget who she is.

You just don't get it do you? Every flag that ever existed has someone who didn't or doesn't like it. That starts with not honoring, respecting and recognizing it. Usually ends up in war.

Your argument is basically that those flags carry some sort of bad meaning. Can the same not be said about every flag then? Does not every flag have some who do not honor that flag? Maybe they kneel for it? Maybe they burn it?
Do you honestly think anyone in the history of mankind has ever first not honored a flag and ultimately went to war to change said flag does not justify it in their minds?
In the end, some people don't like the United States flag, some don't like Israel's flag, some don't like north Korea's, some don't like south Korea's, some don't like China's and some don't like Russia's. Some don't like Biden's flag and some don't like Trump's.
Every single one of those people associates those flags as bad. Perceiving something as good or bad is judgement is it not? Is not that judgement then up to each individual?
Because what it seems to me is that you don't like any flag, current or past. So again I ask what flag do you intend to raise? Because you know somebody isn't going to like it, right???
Now if we really thought about this, hasn't history shown that a lot of slaves were sold by their own people?? Sold to English settlers? So shouldn't they actually despise that flag more than any other? You associate the rebel flag as bad, but do you not think there were other political disagreements going on other than slaves? But wait, if your ancestors came from Somalia or where things are not good and now they are all trying to come here, maybe you should thank God that your ancestors were sold as slaves, because that resulted in being born and raised here. You know,. So you could go to college, play football, maybe go pro and make millions. Or you could become a doctor or lawyer. You know things you wouldn't have been able to do hadn't your history been what it is and you are not struggling to get out of Somalia now days.
I hate to break it to you, but nobody's ancestors had it easy. They all had rough parts and those rough times came at the hands of others. Every flag is bad to someone. Go ahead raise your own and it to will be bad to someone too and then you will be the problem. Judged as bad, by others.

 

[HawkGold]

You just don't get it do you? Every flag that ever existed has someone who didn't or doesn't like it. That starts with not honoring, respecting and recognizing it. Usually ends up in war.

Your argument is basically that those flags carry some sort of bad meaning. Can the same not be said about every flag then? Does not every flag have some who do not honor that flag? Maybe they kneel for it? Maybe they burn it?
Do you honestly think anyone in the history of mankind has ever first not honored a flag and ultimately went to war to change said flag does not justify it in their minds?
In the end, some people don't like the United States flag, some don't like Israel's flag, some don't like north Korea's, some don't like south Korea's, some don't like China's and some don't like Russia's. Some don't like Biden's flag and some don't like Trump's.
Every single one of those people associates those flags as bad. Perceiving something as good or bad is judgement is it not? Is not that judgement then up to each individual?
Because what it seems to me is that you don't like any flag, current or past. So again I ask what flag do you intend to raise? Because you know somebody isn't going to like it, right???
Now if we really thought about this, hasn't history shown that a lot of slaves were sold by their own people?? Sold to English settlers? So shouldn't they actually despise that flag more than any other? You associate the rebel flag as bad, but do you not think there were other political disagreements going on other than slaves? But wait, if your ancestors came from Somalia or where things are not good and now they are all trying to come here, maybe you should thank God that your ancestors were sold as slaves, because that resulted in being born and raised here. You know,. So you could go to college, play football, maybe go pro and make millions. Or you could become a doctor or lawyer. You know things you wouldn't have been able to do hadn't your history been what it is and you are not struggling to get out of Somalia now days.
I hate to break it to you, but nobody's ancestors had it easy. They all had rough parts and those rough times came at the hands of others. Every flag is bad to someone. Go ahead raise your own and it to will be bad to someone too and then you will be the problem. Judged as bad, by others.

Wow dude you really don't get it. If I error I error on side of decency. You seem full of hate.

 

[4thngoal]

Wow dude you really don't get it. If I error I error on side of decency. You seem full of hate.

I have no hate.
You never answered my question. What flag do you intend on raising if you can not honor and respect this one?
I want you to look at a map of the middle east. You see that little tiny dot that is Israel? Now I want to to readjust your your stubborn mind, because you want to talk about a minority surrounded by hostility, let's start there.
Now Israel just wants to be Isreal, but the Islamic states around them do not recognize, respect or honor Israel's flag. They want a different flag flown there.
Do not Israel's lives matter?
Of course they do.
Now how can the United States as a whole, the republic and the flag for which it stands be considered racist when we basically help protect that little tiny dot that really doesn't benefit us at all?
Are people treated unfairly in the United States? Sure, people are treated unfairly in every country and guess what, it has nothing to do with flags, races or religion. It goes back to what I said, it's an individual judgement about what your perception of that "flag" means.
Furthermore if we were asked not to judge all Muslims by the acts of a few after 911, then how is it that black people get to judge all cops and all white people by the acts of a few? Who's really judging who here? Based on profession and color.
Is that in words that you understand?
In other words what if a black coach was hard on a black athlete? What if a black coach joked about robbing some place. What if a black coach expected his black players to act decent?
You couldn't call it racist now could you?
I hate to tell you but Martin Luther King jr. had exactly that message, that black people needed to act differently. Was he racist too?

 

[SteveGarvey1]

That's just stupid. This is also a flag of rebellion today. In the past and now it is also the flag of those wanting to keep the status quo.

To those who were on the receiving end of slavery, this was the equivalent symbol.

The UN estimates 17 million died from the slave trade around the world btw.
You don't won't to compare:

When I see the American Flag, I think of John Adams, Ben Franklin, Lincoln, the abolitionists, the Union private who died at Gettysburg helping to end slavery, the civil rights leaders of all colors, the 60 police officers who died trying to save people from burning buildings on 9/11, the police who have aided and saved the lives of thousands of people of all colors, and the military overall who ended the reigns from the countries of the flags you showed on your post.

 

[4thngoal]

When I see the American Flag, I think of John Adams, Ben Franklin, Lincoln, the abolitionists, the Union private who died at Gettysburg helping to end slavery, the civil rights leaders of all colors, the 60 police officers who died trying to save people from burning buildings on 9/11, the police who have aided and saved the lives of thousands of people of all colors, and the military overall who ended the reigns from the countries of the flags you showed on your post.

Exactly my point.
Everyone "See's" something when they look at a flag. It doesn't make them right or wrong. Because it's a personal feeling about an inanimate object. Really not much different than looking at smoked oysters when you think about it. Some people get squeamish and some people don't. What I "see" when I see the rebel flag is a group of people willing to stand up against their government. The same thing I see with the original 13 colony flag standing up against England. Should English people get all freaked out when they see the original 13 colony flag??
I don't add in my personal feelings or even what my ancestors went through during the times of those flags, I'm just happy to be here. Like I said nobody's ancestors had it easy.

 

[HawkGold]

I have no hate.
You never answered my question. What flag do you intend on raising if you can not honor and respect this one?
I want you to look at a map of the middle east. You see that little tiny dot that is Israel? Now I want to to readjust your your stubborn mind, because you want to talk about a minority surrounded by hostility, let's start there.
Now Israel just wants to be Isreal, but the Islamic states around them do not recognize, respect or honor Israel's flag. They want a different flag flown there.
Do not Israel's lives matter?
Of course they do.
Now how can the United States as a whole, the republic and the flag for which it stands be considered racist when we basically help protect that little tiny dot that really doesn't benefit us at all?
Are people treated unfairly in the United States? Sure, people are treated unfairly in every country and guess what, it has nothing to do with flags, races or religion. It goes back to what I said, it's an individual judgement about what your perception of that "flag" means.
Furthermore if we were asked not to judge all Muslims by the acts of a few after 911, then how is it that black people get to judge all cops and all white people by the acts of a few? Who's really judging who here? Based on profession and color.
Is that in words that you understand?
In other words what if a black coach was hard on a black athlete? What if a black coach joked about robbing some place. What if a black coach expected his black players to act decent?
You couldn't call it racist now could you?
I hate to tell you but Martin Luther King jr. had exactly that message, that black people needed to act differently. Was he racist too?

You are lumping too many angles/people together.

I don't have a flag. I'm a citizen who lives in a nation that is strong and overall prosperous and yet has pretty severe issues. Grateful to be here. My first allegiance is to God. That is what motivates me on the side of justice. You managed to insinuate to think other than your way then violence is supported.

 

[karras]

Those interested in enlightenment will watch this video. Those interested in Dogma, won't.

 

[4thngoal]

You are lumping too many angles/people together.

I don't have a flag. I'm a citizen who lives in a nation that is strong and overall prosperous and yet has pretty severe issues. Grateful to be here. My first allegiance is to God. That is what motivates me on the side of justice. You managed to insinuate to think other than your way then violence is supported.

I too am compelled by God. Shall we discuss that? I think you will find my argument much the same as the flag argument.
I am absolutely not lumping to many angles/people in. The only one who would even say such a thing is one who is more concerned with and thinks their angle, people, opinion, plight, plea should carry more weight.

 

[4thngoal]

Those interested in enlightenment will watch this video. Those interested in Dogma, won't.

Excellent video.
I kind of knew all that, but some people need to watch it every day for awhile and let it sink in. My wife and I were just discussing this topic awhile back. We are both extremely competitive, and I have made the exact same correlation that this guy has to people who are not. My wife and I can not stand liars, cheaters and thieves. We are very much live and let live, but if you are not leading, then get out of the way type people.

 

[HawkGold]

When I see the American Flag, I think of John Adams, Ben Franklin, Lincoln, the abolitionists, the Union private who died at Gettysburg helping to end slavery, the civil rights leaders of all colors, the 60 police officers who died trying to save people from burning buildings on 9/11, the police who have aided and saved the lives of thousands of people of all colors, and the military overall who ended the reigns from the countries of the flags you showed on your post.

I think of that too more than you know. That flag also had a military that executed 55 black soldiers to 15 white. It dropped an A bomb which wasn't necessary and was only to keep there from being a North Japan.

It wasn't our flag that did all of what you mention. It was individual soldiers fighting together against a cause bigger than themselves. I won't agree with anyone on the necessity of Afghanistan and Iraq. I've interviewed countless WW2 soldiers for my books.

As I've mentioned until the majority is uncomfortable enough with racism, it won't change very fast. The changes in the minority cannot be based on what "blacks" which is a very diverse group as a group change first.

The US MUST address the issues. Absolutely is a must.

Ironically, slavery would have likely ended on it's own by 1870 or shortly after as technology changed the slaves into an economic liability. One cannot deny that some slave owners thought of slaves as badly as hogs. This year across Iowa, hogs were slaughtered as economic liabilities.

That this nation has allowed racism to perpetuate as long as it has is an abomination. So many want to think of the US as a Christian Nation or used to be. Never has been or blacks would not be treated so badly.

 

[HawkGold]

I too am compelled by God. Shall we discuss that? I think you will find my argument much the same as the flag argument.
I am absolutely not lumping to many angles/people in. The only one who would even say such a thing is one who is more concerned with and thinks their angle, people, opinion, plight, plea should carry more weight.

No you are not compelled by God. You would be doing more to end injustice if you were. There is only one thing in this. Systemic racism must stop.

 

[OUTofTOWNHAWK]

I don’t want to see the team all do the same thing because that means rights are taken away from some players one way or the other. I can stand you can kneel and we can be best friends.
If you don’t like it stay at your tailgate for one more beer. That’s probably what I will do because I’m anti-lines and pro beer.

 

[4thngoal]

No you are not compelled by God. You would be doing more to end injustice if you were. There is only one thing in this. Systemic racism must stop.

You just don't know when to quit do you?
Prove to me there is systematic racism.
Prove to me how African Americans are the victims of systematic racism.
You can't. They are afforded everything I am, that my Mexican neighbor is, as the Chinese, Puerto Rican and every other nationality in the United States is.
Probably even more when you think about it, because the ACLU would absolutely throw a fit if Warren Buffett decided to start a TV channel called white entertainment channel.
Not to mention the countless programs from business to education just for minorities. But not for broke ass white people. You want fair and equal?? I warned you that axe is double sided.
Now if you want to talk about God and injustice. I bet you want to open up the borders, but does the Bible not say that heaven has a gate and thus a fence?
Does the Bible not say
14 l“You shall not remove your neighbor’s landmark, which the men of old have set, in your inheritance which you will inherit in the land that the Lord your God is giving you to possess.
What is a flag?
I would watch your tone when you start going around telling people God compelled you but not them.

 

[Xerxes]

bro, you are weak ... i bet you say things like ... we need more communication to solve problems, then type the drivel above





"The thing that separates the American from every other person on earth is the fact that he would rather die on his feet, than live on his knees! -George Washington"

This is a fantastic quote from someone who owned slaves.