HawkInATX
Well-Known Member
Really? Really? Having faith in a college football coach is the same as allowing the holocaust? Perspective, maybe?
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Really? Really? Having faith in a college football coach is the same as allowing the holocaust? Perspective, maybe?
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alexzelada
Guest
I had to. The youngins on this board really don't understand what 1981 meant. It wasn't just Hayden changing Iowa's fortunes. He changed the Big Ten conference. Up until that year it was assumed by many that only 2 teams in the Big Ten were allowed to visit the Rose Bowl. The odds in July 1981 that the team with the longest non-winning streak in the conference would break thru and rewrite the possibilities for the toughest conference in the land was computed by Leonard Nimoy in 1992. The odds were as follows: 1,884,923,845,399,211,585,767,644,013,477 to 1.
I said it over and over. It was not the losing that gave me such disdain for Kirk, it was the way Iowa lost. It was the playing not to lose, instead of playing to win. I was not wrong whatsoever about wanting KF gone, and neither was anyone else. We all thought that he was too stubborn to change and he gave us YEARS of data to back that up. Where we were wrong was that he was willing to make those changes. The changes that we all wanted a new coach to bring in. He thus far has re-invented himself. I'm certainly willing to give credit to KF for this season and finally going back to being aggressive as he was as a young coach. I was not wrong in wanting Kirk gone. I was wrong that Kirk wasn't willing to change and I accept that and am happy about it.
ssckelley
Well-Known Member
Actually by sustained success I was talking about the 3 straight top 10 finishes. Fry got us there, the 1985 season was one of my favorites.
I really don't want to get into a Fry vs Ferentz argument as I like them both and they each brought Iowa up to a new level.
To be fair Ferentz had one heck of a hill to climb as well. Let's not forget Fry's final season was 3-8 and Ferentz's first 2 seasons they were a combined 4-19.
HawkInATX
Well-Known Member
You wanted him gone because you thought he was too stubborn to change.
He was not too stubborn to change.
You thought wrong.
Ergo: you were wrong.
QED
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alexzelada
Guest
You're right.
The Nelsons wagging their finger right now with their self-righteousness are waaayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy worse than Nazis. Heck there are patheticos who want Kirk to give the hard-working, ticket-buying, bowl-traveling, legendarily-loyal fans the middle finger.
HawkInATX
Well-Known Member
You're right.
The Nelsons wagging their finger right now with their self-righteousness are waaayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy worse than Nazis. Heck there are patheticos who want Kirk to give the hard-working, ticket-buying, bowl-traveling, legendarily-loyal fans the middle finger.
I think you've missed the point entirely.
ssckelley
Well-Known Member
Ok, so you don't like the Tom Davis comparison that is fair as they are 2 different sports. Just sticking with football Iowa was pretty miserable after Forest Evashevski decided he wanted to be a AD instead of the Head Coach. But I suppose the excuse here will be different circumstance, different ERA, am I right?
I disagree that my attitude is "defeatist" as I want Iowa to win as badly as anybody. But I don't believe change is always good, there have been plenty of examples of where a coaching change did not have good results. Being a blue blood football program is an incredibly tough mountain to climb, slipping back into mediocrity or into futility is easy. If you think Iowa football can reach that next level then, IMO, you will be disappointed. I would LOVE to be wrong on this but I don't believe Iowa could ever be a Ohio State or Alabama.
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alexzelada
Guest
Sorry, The U of IA has made a strategic decision to become what Nebraska used to be. ELITE. That's why during the worst recession ever shiny new buildings were erected. Assistant coaches were hired at a salary greater than Hayden's in his final year. The HC was given a lifetime contract. All these things and more were done because Hawkeye football/basketball IS THE PROFESSIONAL TEAM in Iowa. The U could've hired someone for 1 mil per year and been happy with 7 win Cyclone seasons. But people much higher up the food chain than ssckelly made the call to spend BIG DOLLARS on people and facilities. Now big results are expected from both fans and administrators. Things have changed, there was a time when HCs didn't make 30 TIMES what the state governor makes (130k per yr for those interested). This ain't your father's college sports expectations Kelly. The 21st century is here and you ain't livin in Mayberry anymore.
ssckelley
Well-Known Member
@alexzelada
Nothing that you mentioned will put Iowa into the upper tier of college football. Football is Iowa's cash cow, you put all that money into these things just so you have a chance to compete and to keep it making money. Go look at ISU, they are pouring money into their facilities as well. If you don't believe me at how slippery of a slope being at the top of college football can be just look at what is going on at Texas, they pour as much money into football as anybody.
Iowa is not sitting in the hotbed of D1 football talent, the state might produce 8 to 10 per year at the most. In order to compete at Iowa you have to do what Fry did and what Ferentz is doing right now, keep finding the needles in the haystack and hope you can compete every 3 or 4 years.
Nothing that you mentioned will put Iowa into the upper tier of college football. Football is Iowa's cash cow, you put all that money into these things just so you have a chance to compete and to keep it making money. Go look at ISU, they are pouring money into their facilities as well. If you don't believe me at how slippery of a slope being at the top of college football can be just look at what is going on at Texas, they pour as much money into football as anybody.
Iowa is not sitting in the hotbed of D1 football talent, the state might produce 8 to 10 per year at the most. In order to compete at Iowa you have to do what Fry did and what Ferentz is doing right now, keep finding the needles in the haystack and hope you can compete every 3 or 4 years.
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alexzelada
Guest
Ummmmmm, of course being at the top is hard and EVERYONE falls. But the nature of sports competition is to be the best. Why did Hayden Fry aim for the Rose Bowl when we are just "little old Iowa and the Rose Bowl is for the Ohio States and Michigans"? Athletic competition means you shoot for number 1. I'm guessing you were never an athlete because that truth seems to escape you.
HawkU
Well-Known Member
Lol - you don't want to go there but you have.
Ultimately I guess it all depends on your definition of sustained. After those 3 in a row top 10 finishes, which ended in 2004, do you realize Iowa has finished ranked in the AP top 25 only twice?
During KF's tenure his teams have finished ranked 5 of his 16 full seasons or 31% of the time.
During Fry's tenure his teams finished ranked for 10 of his 20 seasons or 50% of the time.
For my money Fry's career fits a better narrative of sustained success.
ArvadaHawk
Well-Known Member
The Iowa football team seems to be gaining confidence, but they do have an easy schedule. I wonder if they will renegotiate the head coaches contract after this year.
FranklinHawk
Well-Known Member
You lost me right here, at 7 wins a Cyclone head coach is due for a raise and contract extension!
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alexzelada
Guest
Facts, you keep winning with them. The notion that for every 2015 we should be HAPPY with 4 down years is nutz. Some of these threads feel like this web series . . .
[video=youtube;pSGgm8TIMFU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSGgm8TIMFU[/video]
Knight78
Well-Known Member
And there you have it, folks.... Godwin's Law is reached in 9 posts.
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alexzelada
Guest
You lost me right here, at 7 wins a Cyclone head coach is due for a raise and contract extension!
The U actually did give out a raise and extension after a 7 win season. Right before Bowlsby left in 2006 he handed out a raise and extension. And IIRC when Barta arrived he also handed out a raise and extension. 2 raises and extensions after a 7 win season. Someone needs to fact-check me and go look that stuff up as I am too lazy.
History lesson: After THIS CONTRACT was signed, it was renegotiated several times.
Here's a link where Jon Miller talks about contracts
Here's a perspective link
Cardinals54
Well-Known Member
Lol. Yeah...but probably accurate.
I don't know about apologies or non- apologies or whatever. I DO know that Iowa football is fun as hell to watch again....mainly because NOBODY knows what the staff is gonna do next. Touchdown pass into the end zone from 20+ yards out when everyone on earth assumed we'd just run the clock for a field goal, fake field goal from 30 yards out, going for a 1st down on 4th down at almost anytime and anywhere during a game...it all keeps opposing teams, fans, and the dopey analysts clueless about what we're gonna do next. It's like Fry's first couple of years when he arrived. I'm LOVING it...win or lose.
