Nine More Positive COVID-19 Tests in Iowa Athletic Department

[kicker22]

I've thought about this and have had a similar belief on occasion. I don't see a real issue with letting the 20 yr olds get it to build antibodies. That would be great, but, the issue is trying to contain that to a campus and not letting the 20 yr olds infect those outside of the campus such as elderly parents, relatives, those with co-morbid conditions that were at Walmart the same time the 20 yr old was.

The concern is overrunning the hospitals if that were to happen. I completely agree with the logic, but the collateral damage has to be put into perspective. Again, I'm more on your side of thinking that this has to pass through for herd immunity.

At first I was in the camp that thought do whatever possible not to get or spread it. Now however, as things have moved forward, I've reached the conclusion that getting it (if you haven't unknowningly done so already) is inevitable. So while currently in the party that is questions how they'll be able to come far enough along to have college football in the fall, I find myself in the camp thinking if a kid is going to get it (which they most likely will at one point or another) why not have them exposed to it on campus where you have the medical staff and professionals nearby in the event it becomes serious.

 

[Jonrn]

Iowa data (IDPH site) as of 6/23/2020:

Total deaths in 0 - 60 years age range: 88

Number of those that had no preexisting condition: 8 (all in the 40 to 60 age range)

All deaths in the 18 - 40 range (which was 15 deaths) had a preexisting condition. So evidence for 4 or 5 months shows your risk of death is tiny in this range and even nil so far if you don't have a preexisting condition. But Fear.

To date, 26,346 positive cases overall, with 83% of those in the 0 to 60 age range. That translates to 21,867 cases in that range. The death rate therefore would be 88 / 21,867 = roughly 0.4% for known cases in this range. Much lower for the younger in the range as 12,119 positive cases in the 18 - 40 year old range and 15 deaths (all with preexisting conditions) for a death rate of 0.12% for known cases in that age range. There have been 0 deaths in the under 18 year old range. For the 41 - 60 age range the death rate is 73 deaths / 8,694 cases = 0.84%. So if you are younger than 40 this thing is about as deadly as a regular flu virus, less so if younger than 18.

These are what is known based on past experience during a time when the medical community was learning how to treat and you can verify on IDPH website. I know fear gets more eyeballs though.

Hopefully these stats are actually being used by the rainmakers and decision makers in college football and in government. Plus people trying to open elementary schools as well.

These stats line up to what Ive seen first hand in the ICU and ORs of hospitals. The youngest patient I’ve even seen on a ventilator is 58 and he was obese.

 

[NorthKCHawk]

I've thought about this and have had a similar belief on occasion. I don't see a real issue with letting the 20 yr olds get it to build antibodies. That would be great, but, the issue is trying to contain that to a campus and not letting the 20 yr olds infect those outside of the campus such as elderly parents, relatives, those with co-morbid conditions that were at Walmart the same time the 20 yr old was.

The concern is overrunning the hospitals if that were to happen. I completely agree with the logic, but the collateral damage has to be put into perspective. Again, I'm more on your side of thinking that this has to pass through for herd immunity.

My plan will not overrun hospitals because these healthy college kids won't get sick. They will get it, maybe have a sniffle, and then hopefully be immune and free of the virus by the time they head home for the semester. As for other folks in these college towns who are at risk, well, they have to protect themselves. If you are older or have comorbidity factors, you need to put on a mask, wash your hands, and social distance.

 

[NorthKCHawk]

Look, you need to think of this as every person is either a good or bad soldier with the battle humanity is having with this tiny virus. Anyone who has not caught this and has the ability to be infected and infect others is a friend to the virus and an enemy to humans. We have the ability to turn millions of kids from enemies to friends in a relatively contained environment with almost no risk to these young folks. This thing will tear through humanity until it runs out of hosts. Waiting for a vaccine is fine, but its a ways off. We need to convert the healthy to the immune, and protect the rest through social distancing.

 

[westender]

Look, you need to think of this as every person is either a good or bad soldier with the battle humanity is having with this tiny virus. Anyone who has not caught this and has the ability to be infected and infect others is a friend to the virus and an enemy to humans. We have the ability to turn millions of kids from enemies to friends in a relatively contained environment with almost no risk to these young folks. This thing will tear through humanity until it runs out of hosts. Waiting for a vaccine is fine, but its a ways off. We need to convert the healthy to the immune, and protect the rest through social distancing.

Sounds crazy but they should have been recruiting low risk otherwise healthy adults to contract it and quarantine. Like creating a fire break. House them in unused hotels for a week and then quarantine at home a week if everything going good.

 

[westender]

I honestly don't know what is the best approach. I look to scientists and epidemiologists for guidance. They aren't always right, but it's a new virus. I think everybody is learning as we go. I prefer to listen to experts in the field as opposed to people in other professions.

I'm following safety guidelines like wearing a mask and washing hands. I'm often one of the few people wearing a mask. Does the mask help and how much? I don't know. But I know it can't hurt and if I can help protect someone else, it's a pretty small sacrifice.

(Here's where someone cites a study that masks don't help. Then I can cite a study that does. And around we go.).

Regarding masks, one health "expert" on CNBC stated a mask probably adds about 10 minutes to the time it takes to catch it. So if you were in a room with an infected person normally it may take 10 minutes of exposure with that person (assuming they are not hacking and sneezing 3 feet from you). he stated with both wearing masks it might then take 20 minutes exposure to catch it.

 

[westender]

Look, you need to think of this as every person is either a good or bad soldier with the battle humanity is having with this tiny virus. Anyone who has not caught this and has the ability to be infected and infect others is a friend to the virus and an enemy to humans. We have the ability to turn millions of kids from enemies to friends in a relatively contained environment with almost no risk to these young folks. This thing will tear through humanity until it runs out of hosts. Waiting for a vaccine is fine, but its a ways off. We need to convert the healthy to the immune, and protect the rest through social distancing.

And the thing is it may tear through humanity and keep mutating like flu does and keep coming back. By then of course most have some degree of immunity that helps fight it so the complication rates are lower.

 

[westender]

In my view if they could find a cure for the common cold that would be one of humanity's greatest discoveries. I would pay big time for that.

 

[westender]

Hopefully these stats are actually being used by the rainmakers and decision makers in college football and in government. Plus people trying to open elementary schools as well.

These stats line up to what Ive seen first hand in the ICU and ORs of hospitals. The youngest patient I’ve even seen on a ventilator is 58 and he was obese.

Agreed. I know they always say, well they may not have problems but then they go home and visit grandma. Well people have to be smart and not just plain stupid.

 

[westender]

I know one person who has died from COVID. He was greater than 80 years old and had had an organ transplant in his 70s. He chose to go out and about thinking he had to do some work that could have easily waited.

 

[ssckelley]

I had a childhood friend get COVID with no other issues almost die from it (mid 40s). At one point the doctors only gave him a low chance of surviving the night, once he pulled through that they gave him a 40% chance to make it. He just got his tubes out yesterday and is wanting to go home.

 

[MikeyLikesIowa]

And wait till the parents of said athlete sue a school for $100 million because they felt pressured to be at workouts/practices. Say they win, or settle for even $20 or $30 million. Now everyone's getting sued.

Athletic departments got way ahead of themselves thinking there could be sports this fall. Regardless of whether you think COVID is a hoax or not, (several people here) there are huge ramifications for anything that goes even slightly wrong.

There won't be any lawsuits in Iowa.

https://www.radioiowa.com/2020/06/18/iowa-law-now-shields-most-businesses-from-covid-19-lawsuits/

 

[westender]

I had a childhood friend get COVID with no other issues almost die from it (mid 40s). At one point the doctors only gave him a low chance of surviving the night, once he pulled through that they gave him a 40% chance to make it. He just got his tubes out yesterday and is wanting to go home.

I am sure there is also a gene factor and what exposures one has had in the past, etc. But those are much less common than having a preexisting condition. And this person has stated to you they have no other medical issues? Health is like a person's pay, both pretty much people don't want to talk about.

 

[ssckelley]

I am sure there is also a gene factor and what exposures one has had in the past, etc. But those are much less common than having a preexisting condition. And this person has stated to you they have no other medical issues? Health is like a person's pay, both pretty much people don't want to talk about.

None that I know about, he was a little on the heavy side but he was always a big guy even in high school. I know his wife ended up with it too but she bounced back a lot more quickly than he did. Perhaps it's because he didn't have any other conditions is why he pulled through it.

 

[MelroseHawkins]

My plan will not overrun hospitals because these healthy college kids won't get sick. They will get it, maybe have a sniffle, and then hopefully be immune and free of the virus by the time they head home for the semester. As for other folks in these college towns who are at risk, well, they have to protect themselves. If you are older or have comorbidity factors, you need to put on a mask, wash your hands, and social distance.

Well the fact is we've gotten to the point where more people are getting hurt or their quality of life is getting bad (revenue loss, job loss, family debt, increased abuses, etc. etc.) of the majority of the people in the attempt to save or protect a small minority of people. We've go to the point where we can't afford to keep everything closed down. We can't bury American families in debt.

 

[VAHawkFan]

Look, you need to think of this as every person is either a good or bad soldier with the battle humanity is having with this tiny virus. Anyone who has not caught this and has the ability to be infected and infect others is a friend to the virus and an enemy to humans. We have the ability to turn millions of kids from enemies to friends in a relatively contained environment with almost no risk to these young folks. This thing will tear through humanity until it runs out of hosts. Waiting for a vaccine is fine, but its a ways off. We need to convert the healthy to the immune, and protect the rest through social distancing.

A college campus is no more "relatively contained" than a very large apartment complex in any given city is "relatively contained". It's not. Not unless there some restrictions on to or off of campus.

And while you're correct that there is lower risk among that population, it's not zero risk. Any sizable university is going to have a percentage of students with risky medical histories and some students with no foreknowledge of medical conditions that may put them greater risk. Yes, you can mitigate that, but you can't eliminate it. There is still the risk of some deaths, and I can't imagine college students would be OK being used that way.

I get what you're saying. I do understand. But regardless of the population your talking about you're still essentially saying "You guys are going to have to take some bullets for everyone else. Some of you won't survive." That's still true even if you're talking about a younger population with less risk of death. There is still risk.

I'm not saying the idea is unfounded or without merit. But such a plan would still result in deaths and that can't be glossed over.

 

[MelroseHawkins]

I had a childhood friend get COVID with no other issues almost die from it (mid 40s). At one point the doctors only gave him a low chance of surviving the night, once he pulled through that they gave him a 40% chance to make it. He just got his tubes out yesterday and is wanting to go home.

Some people are in the hospital for 4-6 weeks. They then get to go home with a ton of medical debt. One nasty virus indeed.

 

[Fryowa]

There won't be any lawsuits in Iowa.

https://www.radioiowa.com/2020/06/18/iowa-law-now-shields-most-businesses-from-covid-19-lawsuits/

From the actual bill on the Iowa legislature website (emphasis is mine):

686D.4 Premises owner’s duty of care
— limited liability.
A person who possesses or is in control of a premises,
including a tenant, lessee, or occupant of a premises, who
directly or indirectly invites or permits an individual onto
a premises, shall not be liable for civil damages for any
injuries sustained from the individual’s exposure to COVID-19,
whether the exposure occurs on the premises or during any
activity managed by the person who possesses or is in control
of a premises, unless any of the following apply to the person
who possesses or is in control of the premises:
who possesses or is in control of the premises:
1. The person who possesses or is in control of the premises
recklessly disregards a substantial and unnecessary risk that
the individual would be exposed to COVID-19.
​

In blue above would be exactly what's argued in court and there would definitely be lawsuits. If you've ever taken even a rudimentary employment or commercial law course you'll know that your duty to prevent negligence is something you can't legislate away. That is a very basic tenant of tort law. It's 101, first day of class stuff.

If that were not the case you could just write up and pass a law or statute that says "We hereby declare that just by the act of walking into such and such a building you are notified and agree to hold harmless any and all persons and organizations should anything bad happen to you at all, regardless of why it happens." In other words, you can't just draft up a law that says "Even if we're negligent, you can't sue us." Doesn't work that way, and it's why every legal source has basically said all these waivers that schools are having athletes sign aren't worth the paper they're written on. You cannot absolve yourself of negligence...not with a waiver, not with a law. And courts (juries) decide if someone or some organization was being negligent.

Now you may well believe that a school is not negligent, but we have a thing called juries in the US and they get to decide. That's the whole reason for lawsuits being a thing...they interpret laws through verdicts, decisions, and precedent. Somebody dies from COVID there's gonna be lawsuits and it won't just be the particular school. It'll be the NCAA, the conference, and so on.

 

[SmokeTownHawk]

There won't be any lawsuits in Iowa.

https://www.radioiowa.com/2020/06/18/iowa-law-now-shields-most-businesses-from-covid-19-lawsuits/

Gosh, it certainly gives me all the warm fuzzies that corporate rights are supposed to supersede the rights of an individual.

 

[MWS604]

I honestly don't know what is the best approach. I look to scientists and epidemiologists for guidance. They aren't always right, but it's a new virus. I think everybody is learning as we go. I prefer to listen to experts in the field as opposed to people in other professions.

I'm following safety guidelines like wearing a mask and washing hands. I'm often one of the few people wearing a mask. Does the mask help and how much? I don't know. But I know it can't hurt and if I can help protect someone else, it's a pretty small sacrifice.

(Here's where someone cites a study that masks don't help. Then I can cite a study that does. And around we go.).

Probably about 90% of the experts are against encouraging herd immunity the rest are Fox News contributors. Keeping the rate of infections under control is mostly about keeping ICU room and staffing needs under capacity. So when a biker not wearing a helmet is in an accident, there is a bed for him.