Nice win

InGoodCo said:
Yup - your right, he was 2nd team his Jr. Season as well. I still stand by my statement.
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His best coaching job in 8 years was missing the tournament with a preseason All B1G player and the best recruit he's ever had coming in doesn't really help your argument of Fran deserving another year.
 
Hawk5656 said:
His best coaching job in 8 years was missing the tournament with a preseason All B1G player and the best recruit he's ever had coming in doesn't really help your argument of Fran deserving another year.
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Wisconsin has an All B1G player this season right?
 
NikeHawk21 said:
First of all not everyone wants Fran run. The poll was like a 50/50 spilt.

Last year was his best coaching job?? We had a 1st Team all B1G Player, the 6th man of the year, and two all B1G freshman. We lost at home in the second round of the NIT. If that’s his best coaching job...yikes.
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We lost by 2 points in overtime to the NIT Champs. TCU, this season, has beaten West Virginia, and lost to Oklahoma by one at home and at Norman by 3 in OT. They lost to Kansas by 4. The NIT is not the disgrace many think it is. Last season was a very good coaching job considering that we only had one returning starter and one of the youngest teams in college basketball, seven freshmen and four sophomores, one senior returning starter and a junior with limited game experience. Overall not a bad season, one that we were one stolen game away from the Dance.

There is hope that we will continue to play well the remainder of this season, but the postseason hopes are gone. Ideally, we are setting the stage for next season when JoeW will come on board.

:cool:
 
Hawk5656 said:
Wisconsin has two guards out with an injury and their starting point guard is playing with one arm and on top of that I think Gard is an awful coach.
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ok but they have a preseason All B1G player tho right? Hell, he was a 3rd team All American last year. This aint about Gard, but it is a point that having 1 star and a not enough pieces around him isn't gonna get you far. Fran did a good job coaching and getting Iowa in the position they were in last season. I won't be convinced otherwise.
 
InGoodCo said:
I didn't say nearly any of that. I didn't say the finish was his best. I didn't say that losing in the 2nd round of the NIT was his best year. I said, last year was his best coaching job and if you look at it objectively, it's hard to argue. Iowa started the season with a decent senior SG. THAT'S IT. They lost like what % of their minutes and scoring from the year before? Jok wasn't on any pre-season list to be All B1G. He also had 4 freshman who basically started or played the bulk minutes most of the year in Jordan, Cook, Pemsl and Moss. Baer was Sophomore who the previous season was still a walk on. That, believe it or not, is not a recipe for projected success. Iowa was not considered a tourney team and they didn't end up there, but they came 1 game away. That's close, that's the ball bounce a different way a couple of times in a season.

Jok, didn't come into last year considered All B1G caliber. His season got him there, Fran's coaching helped
Cook and Jordan weren't on the All B1G Frosh list until Fran helped get em there.
Baer wasn't considered the best 6th man when the season started.

You have to give the coach some credit. Some credit. He also made his bed, I get that, but that's not what we're talking about here. IMO - last year was his best coaching job, this year is his absolute worse.
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I understand what you meant by “coaching job”, I just don’t agree with it.

Jok was 100% on pre-season all conference lists. He averaged 17 points per game his junior year in conference play.

The point of what I said is that clearly the talent was there to make a tournament last year with all those guys. Literally a remote hint if defense (which is a lot of coaching and effort) and that team would have danced. It also unfortunately takes Fran until January to settle in on a rotation and that probably cost us against Memphis and Omaha. We also had in essence a play in game to make the tournament and got absolutely crushed by Indiana.

I look at his best coaching job as Aaron White’s senior year where we won our last 6 B1G games and destroyed Davidson in the dance.

And I have given Fran credit and stuck up for him plenty around here.
 
NikeHawk21 said:
I understand what you meant by “coaching job”, I just don’t agree with it.

Jok was 100% on pre-season all conference lists. He averaged 17 points per game his junior year in conference play.

The point of what I said is that clearly the talent was there to make a tournament last year with all those guys. Literally a remote hint if defense (which is a lot of coaching and effort) and that team would have danced. It also unfortunately takes Fran until January to settle in on a rotation and that probably cost us against Memphis and Omaha. We also had in essence a play in game to make the tournament and got absolutely crushed by Indiana.

I look at his best coaching job as Aaron White’s senior year where we won our last 6 B1G games and destroyed Davidson in the dance.

And I have given Fran credit and stuck up for him plenty around here.
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yeah, I misspoke on Jok - you are correct. And - yeah, I also see your point on Whitey's senior year. I just think he did a good job with what he had last year. When you have that many new pieces - who are that inexperienced - it takes time to get the rotation. That doesn't explain THIS season at all. They weren't ready for the dance last year, they got what they deserved... but when a team is picked 12th by most pre-season prognosticators and ends up 6th and cleans up in the post season awards, I tend to think that's a good coaching job. I 1000% agree that the end result (NIT) isn't anything to be celebrated.
 
InGoodCo said:
ok but they have a preseason All B1G player tho right? Hell, he was a 3rd team All American last year. This aint about Gard, but it is a point that having 1 star and a not enough pieces around him isn't gonna get you far. Fran did a good job coaching and getting Iowa in the position they were in last season. I won't be convinced otherwise.
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Haha obviously!
 
 
InGoodCo said:
yeah, I misspoke on Jok - you are correct. And - yeah, I also see your point on Whitey's senior year. I just think he did a good job with what he had last year. When you have that many new pieces - who are that inexperienced - it takes time to get the rotation. That doesn't explain THIS season at all. They weren't ready for the dance last year, they got what they deserved... but when a team is picked 12th by most pre-season prognosticators and ends up 6th and cleans up in the post season awards, I tend to think that's a good coaching job. I 1000% agree that the end result (NIT) isn't anything to be celebrated.
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Don't fall into the KF trap where the trick is to get the media to predict 6 wins so 7 regular season wins gets you kudos. If you're a HOF coach (or in this case a "good" coach) you're not supposed to go into most years with low expectations. That's the problem we have in FBall, and now we have the same problem in BBall.
You just wait, next season this board will be filled with posts like this: "Considering last season I'll be happy with the NIT."
You know it, I know it, and the rest of the board knows it.
 
Joshbrown said:
Don't fall into the KF trap where the trick is to get the media to predict 6 wins so 7 regular season wins gets you kudos. If you're a HOF coach (or in this case a "good" coach) you're not supposed to go into most years with low expectations. That's the problem we have in FBall, and now we have the same problem in BBall.
You just wait, next season this board will be filled with posts like this, "Considering last season I'll be happy with the NIT."
You know it, I know it, and the rest of the board knows.
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I don't think that's true. If Iowa misses the dance next year, the board and the fan base is gonna run Fran out of town so quick it won't be funny. I will help lead the way.

Hell, the slightest bump in the road or loss next season to a team Iowa fans feel they should beat and it's gonna be full on FIRE Fran. It is overwhelmingly that way THIS season by a lot and is dividing the fan base.
 
thedukeofearl said:
We lost by 2 points in overtime to the NIT Champs. TCU, this season, has beaten West Virginia, and lost to Oklahoma by one at home and at Norman by 3 in OT. They lost to Kansas by 4. The NIT is not the disgrace many think it is. Last season was a very good coaching job considering that we only had one returning starter and one of the youngest teams in college basketball, seven freshmen and four sophomores, one senior returning starter and a junior with limited game experience. Overall not a bad season, one that we were one stolen game away from the Dance.

There is hope that we will continue to play well the remainder of this season, but the postseason hopes are gone. Ideally, we are setting the stage for next season when JoeW will come on board.

:cool:
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My only complaint in this thread is that that very same coaching staff is also the reason we were so inexperienced and young. I'm in agreement though that the NIT isn't the disgrace many think it is, but at the same time its a consolation prize that no one really wants to participate in.
 
kicker22 said:
My only complaint in this thread is that that very same coaching staff is also the reason we were so inexperienced and young. I'm in agreement though that the NIT isn't the disgrace many think it is, but at the same time its a consolation prize that no one really wants to participate in.
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My main complaint is how quickly a step down gets rationalized into achievement. Not attacking you just observing a phenomena.

Davis ------> got us past the first round most years (not good enough)
Next ------> just getting to the dance is the goal
Next -------> hey the NIT ain't so bad
Next --------> winning season, yeah baby
Next --------> as long as I see improvement from last year
Next --------> the kids are trying, that's what I'm looking for, EFFORT
Next ---------> yeah we had back to back losing seasons, but that just gives me a chance to show how awesome a Hawkeye I am by supporting no change where it matters. And really it's not about the team or program. It's about me proving I'm the best fan with my irrational logic.

Oh, and for those who say "We fired Lick pretty quick."
That wasn't Barta being brave, that was Gatens being brave.
 
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kicker22 said:
My only complaint in this thread is that that very same coaching staff is also the reason we were so inexperienced and young. I'm in agreement though that the NIT isn't the disgrace many think it is, but at the same time its a consolation prize that no one really wants to participate in.
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You're right - it's ultimately on the staff, in Fran's 2nd cycle he signed a big class with Gesell, Woody, Sapp and eventually lost Ingram and added Uthoff to it because Iowa had to have it. They needed to win immediately. His next class was Jok and Meyer. 1 panned out, not bad with only 2 spots. His next class was Uhl and Elingson and that's destroyed them. I personally like our Sophomore class, our Freshman class and next years class - that's why I am in the 1 more year camp
 
Joshbrown said:
My main complaint is how quickly a step down gets quickly rationalized into achievement. Not attacking you just observing a phenomena.

Davis ------> got us past the first round most years (not good enough)
Next ------> just getting to the dance is the goal
Next -------> hey the NIT ain't so bad
Next --------> winning season, yeah baby
Next --------> as long as I see improvement from last year
Next --------> the kids are trying, that's what I'm looking for, EFFORT
Next ---------> yeah we had back to back losing seasons, but that just gives me a chance to show how awesome a Hawkeye I am by supporting no change where it matters. And really it's not about the team or program. It's about me proving I'm the best fan with my irrational logic.

Oh, and for those who say "We fired Lick pretty quick."
That wasn't Barta being brave, that was Gatens being brave.
Click to expand...

were there many fans of Iowa supporting Lick after back to back losing seasons? I don't remember honestly, but I think it was overwhelmingly negative.
 
Joshbrown said:
My main complaint is how quickly a step down gets quickly rationalized into achievement. Not attacking you just observing a phenomena.

Davis ------> got us past the first round most years (not good enough)
Next ------> just getting to the dance is the goal
Next -------> hey the NIT ain't so bad
Next --------> winning season, yeah baby
Next --------> as long as I see improvement from last year
Next --------> the kids are trying, that's what I'm looking for, EFFORT
Next ---------> yeah we had back to back losing seasons, but that just gives me a chance to show how awesome a Hawkeye I am by supporting no change where it matters. And really it's not about the team or program. It's about me proving I'm the best fan with my irrational logic.

Oh, and for those who say "We fired Lick pretty quick."
That wasn't Barta being brave, that was Gatens being brave.
Click to expand...

Except you leave out context.

-When a team is really young, to expect a Sweet 16 appearance is unrealistic.
-When Fran took over a program that run into the ditch by Lick, expecting even a Big Dance appearance in the first 2-3 years is unrealistic.
-If a team graduates its best player and scorer the year before and was only an NIT team anyway, to expect a Sweet 16 team is unrealistic.
-If a coach leads his team to a .500 conference record or better five years in a row, to ask him to be fired the next season when that doesn't happen is unrealistic and unfair.

I don't know anyone on this board who fits the last four "Next"s you list. The "Next" on the "NIT ain't so bad" is usually a non-starter for most Hawk fans most of the time, and would only be occasionally considered an achievement by them based on context, i.e. I think I'd take an NIT appearance this year, if you asked me how I felt on January 24, 2018.
 
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