New Football Commit

How could one argue that they were not flagrantly recklessness?

Let's see, for one possible explanation, maybe they had policies in place that weren't followed. That would mean maybe they weren't flagrantly recklessness. Maybe your use of the term flagrant recklessness is too strong. It infers they really didn't give a damn about the kid. I am betting that probably wasn't the case.

Just because something bad happened, that doesn't mean it was flagrant recklessness. Flagrant means intentional. I highly doubt they intended to put anyone at risk. If you were to argue it is all syntax, I would say that the definition infers it isn't just syntax. You infer that it was purposeful and with intent when you say flagrant. The kid's family doesn't appear to have any issues with things as it stands right now. They seem to view it in the manner I am, based upon what I have seen. At bare minimum it would seem they are willing to let an investigation look into it.

People on message boards that never have to take responsibility for anything are always so quick to let everyone know what is right and why they can't be wrong and why someone else was an idiot. I too, am willing to do that. But my name is next to my profile and I am saying that you are the one that is an idiot if you are so willing to call this flagrant recklessness without having investigated any further than what you have seen in the media. That is why there is such a thing as due process. If they didn't have that there would probably still be lynch mobs to tar and feather people before they had a trial.

There could be multiple reasons for this that have nothing to do with flagrant recklessness. I just came up with one.
 
You assume that he means purposeful and with intent. Twisting the word to fit your arguement. The definition of flagrant is "shockingly noticable or evident; obvious; glaring".

I believe this would be the intended meaning by what I have read here and of the article. We weren't there so we cannot know what exactly happened but there will be an investigation and hopefully some things that can will be righted to the extent they can be. Unfortunately noone can bring back the life of the young man.
 
Travisam said:
Surprisingly....Christian French commit may have some legs. I personally am hoping for Law though.
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WOW. It's not an either/or proposition. It would benefit Iowa to get both. Seriously tho, it is really getting old every time any recruit is brought up someone uses it as an opportunity to bash French. The kid is likely a future Hawkeye so please stifle yourself if you feel the need to be negative.
 
Re: How could one argue that they were not flagrantly recklessness?

Thawki said:
Let's see, for one possible explanation, maybe they had policies in place that weren't followed. That would mean maybe they weren't flagrantly recklessness. Maybe your use of the term flagrant recklessness is too strong. It infers they really didn't give a damn about the kid. I am betting that probably wasn't the case.

Just because something bad happened, that doesn't mean it was flagrant recklessness. Flagrant means intentional. I highly doubt they intended to put anyone at risk. If you were to argue it is all syntax, I would say that the definition infers it isn't just syntax. You infer that it was purposeful and with intent when you say flagrant. The kid's family doesn't appear to have any issues with things as it stands right now. They seem to view it in the manner I am, based upon what I have seen. At bare minimum it would seem they are willing to let an investigation look into it.

People on message boards that never have to take responsibility for anything are always so quick to let everyone know what is right and why they can't be wrong and why someone else was an idiot. I too, am willing to do that. But my name is next to my profile and I am saying that you are the one that is an idiot if you are so willing to call this flagrant recklessness without having investigated any further than what you have seen in the media. That is why there is such a thing as due process. If they didn't have that there would probably still be lynch mobs to tar and feather people before they had a trial.

There could be multiple reasons for this that have nothing to do with flagrant recklessness. I just came up with one.
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It would be flagrantly reckless and clearly negligent to not follow the safety policies that were in place. You killed your own argument in your first sentence!

Brian Kelley is the captain of the ship that is Notre Dame football. He had the ultimate responsibility to ensure safety policies were being followed. In the absence of set policies, he had the responsibility to use common sense and basic deductive reasoning to keep the people under his watch safe. It was his show to run, so the buck stops with him. The only other alternative to Kelley being callous, reckless and grossly negligent is for him to be a complete and absolute MORON if he wasn't able to put two and two together on that day. Either way he doesn't deserve to be responsible for the safety of other people's children.

Dude, the had a kid 50 FEET up on a tipsy tower on a VERY windy day merely to get video of a practice!! A PRACTICE!!!!

Give me a break with this holier-than-thou, innocent until proven guilty clap-trap you are peddling. Believe me. I am a tree-hugging, bleeding-heart, Atticus Finch liberal. I know how to dole that out! But a young man has DIED and the word "preventable" seems wholly inadequate to describe the circumstances! Any idiot can tell you that there was no way that that kid should have been anywhere near that scissor lift on that day.

This has NOTHING to do with anyone's feelings towards Notre Dame football. A 20 year old kid's life was ended and his friends and family's lives were shattered because Brian Kelley wanted video of a PRACTICE in a driving wind storm! That's beyond tragic.

If you can lay out any plausible scenario where Brian Kelley, who is ultimately responsible for everything officially Notre Dame football, can see the kids up in the lifts and can see and feel the high gusty winds and is in no way reckless and negligent when one of those lifts falls, I will retract every word I have written. Good luck fanagling that scenario!
 
Re: Stupid comment, HaydensDad.

Thawki said:
Because you don't like ND, they were flagrantly recklessness? Really classy. If that is the case, please explain why it was flagrant recklessness.

It couldn't be that it was just a fluke thing and it was really windy? If it was at Iowa, you would be singing a different tune.
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You are not correct here. Explain why it was flagrant recklessness?? If there's a 50 mph wind I'll ask you if you want to go up in a scissor lift and see if you volunteer. Unless you want to die you will choose to stay on the ground.
 
Re: Stupid comment, HaydensDad.

gohawkz said:
You are not correct here. Explain why it was flagrant recklessness?? If there's a 50 mph wind I'll ask you if you want to go up in a scissor lift and see if you volunteer. Unless you want to die you will choose to stay on the ground.
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and if there is a 50 MPH wind, the leader of the program would never ask for a volunteer to go in harms way - especially to film a practice.
 
Re: How could one argue that they were not flagrantly recklessness?

I am not saying mistakes weren't made. But I didn't do an investigation and I am not willing to label something simply based upon the media reports until due process has been given to the situation.

I am not aware of the family of the student making the same noise as people on this board. They seem willing to give due process. That is all I am saying. Just because the press writes an article doesn't make it a fact.

I find it interesting that if there is a story written about some liberal political topic there are all kinds of people willing to talk about how the media is biased or not accurate, but no one is willing to let this story work itself out through due process before everyone "knows" what happened here.
 
Re: How could one argue that they were not flagrantly recklessness?

Thawki said:
I am not aware of the family of the student making the same noise as people on this board. They seem willing to give due process. That is all I am saying. Just because the press writes an article doesn't make it a fact.
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Well, I can't speak for the family, but I would have to guess that they are still in a mode of shock, disbelief and deep grieving. They will want to honor and remember their son's life first before they get the torches and pitchforks out.

Plus, this is Notre Dame football, which is almost as much of a religion to its faithful as Roman Catholicism is. Brian Kelley was their golden boy and savior. Imagine how hard would it be for us to level such a charge against Kirk Ferentz and then actually takes real steps to remove him. I'd think it would be much harder for the ND faithful to do that to the person they were counting on leading them back to the promised land. That is why it is important for those on the outside with no vested interest to be level headed and call a spade a spade.

Brian Kelley will get his due diligence and, if need be, his day in court. No one on this board has the power to fire him, suspend him, or levy any civil or criminal punishment. All we have is the court of public opinion where there is and will never be any sworn testimony or forensic testing. From what the vast majority of us can see it is a no brainer that gross negligence was involved.
 
Thawki, you don't think there isn't a horde of ND faithful on the other side of this that doing what they can to downplay this and sweep this under the rug just to save their football coach? There are other rights besides Kelley's that need to be looked put for.
 
Re: Stupid comment, HaydensDad.

gohawkz said:
You are not correct here. Explain why it was flagrant recklessness?? If there's a 50 mph wind I'll ask you if you want to go up in a scissor lift and see if you volunteer. Unless you want to die you will choose to stay on the ground.
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And you get fired and he sends someone else up there. Imagine if you were 20 and KF or Hayden Fry tells you to go up there in that wind. What do you do? VERY hard to say no!
 
Re: Stupid comment, HaydensDad.

UP6936 said:
And you get fired and he sends someone else up there. Imagine if you were 20 and KF or Hayden Fry tells you to go up there in that wind. What do you do? VERY hard to say no!
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As I've stated before my brother does this for Iowa, and KF has always moved practice inside or to Kinnick when weather isn't great. Never forced them up there or even to make a decision like this. That is where the big difference is.
 
Not that Iowa beat out some top notch programs but the fact he is from Maryland & chose to go this far west & bypass all the others is pretty cool.

Thanks to Sash & Hyde for solidifying his decision. Getting them to Kinnick for a big game sure helps as well.
 
MelroseHawkins said:
Not that Iowa beat out some top notch programs but the fact he is from Maryland & chose to go this far west & bypass all the others is pretty cool.

Thanks to Sash & Hyde for solidifying his decision. Getting them to Kinnick for a big game sure helps as well.
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Back to the topic at hand (boy, where did this thread get hijacked?), this looks like a great get for the Hawkeyes. Kid looks like he has a motor and can hit.
 
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