Moss.....

[ArvadaHawk]

moss redshirted because he wasn't going to get any minutes, last season. remember that we had 2 sr pg's that started. So, 2 gd minutes were eaten up by Clemmons/Gesell, Jok and then Ellingons until he faltered.

Moss will be a better all around scorer than Jok, but won't be as pure a shooter as Jok.

 

[UncleHawk]

moss redshirted because he wasn't going to get any minutes, last season. remember that we had 2 sr pg's that started. So, 2 gd minutes were eaten up by Clemmons/Gesell, Jok and then Ellingons until he faltered.

Moss will be a better all around scorer than Jok, but won't be as pure a shooter as Jok.

I'm pretty sure Fran referred to academic issues with Moss. This makes sense because his delay coming to Iowa City last summer (remember no PTL for him then) was due to taking a summer school class to graduate.

 

[PCHawk]

Moss seems like a guy who could still end up being great when the light comes on for him, or he could transfer out and never be heard from again. I think at this point, both options are equally possible

 

[BILLYBOBSTEXAS]

Moss seems like a guy who could still end up being great when the light comes on for him, or he could transfer out and never be heard from again. I think at this point, both options are equally possible

This!

 

[deanvogs]

I think it's pretty clear he's a miss. When he redshirted last year I had my concerns because usually you don't redshirt kids that are good unless your Wisconsin or they have to put on weight like Baer. I don't expect him to be a rotational player and if he's not this year I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't end his career here

I think you are absolutely wrong on this one. For Moss it looks to me like he needs to learn to pick his spots (much like Jok had to when he was young). Jok would get pulled for defensives lapses, turnovers, and bad shot selection all the time as a young player. Difference was Iowa wasn't nearly as deep back then and Jok simply had to play. Right now Fran has other decent options and Moss will be stuck on the bench until he figures it out.

Right now Moss/Ellingson is much like Jok/Oglesby was. Once Moss figures some of these things out, plays more under control, limits the turnovers and bad decisions he will start eating into Ellingsons minutes. It was obvious even in the short time he played last night that Moss has a skill set that Ellingson will never have.

I am hoping that Moss is like Williams last year, that at a certain point he gains Fran's trust and by the end of the year he is part of the rotation. If that happens he will absolutely be a contributor for 3 years at Iowa.

 

[Hawk5656]

I think you are absolutely wrong on this one. For Moss it looks to me like he needs to learn to pick his spots (much like Jok had to when he was young). Jok would get pulled for defensives lapses, turnovers, and bad shot selection all the time as a young player. Difference was Iowa wasn't nearly as deep back then and Jok simply had to play. Right now Fran has other decent options and Moss will be stuck on the bench until he figures it out.

Right now Moss/Ellingson is much like Jok/Oglesby was. Once Moss figures some of these things out, plays more under control, limits the turnovers and bad decisions he will start eating into Ellingsons minutes. It was obvious even in the short time he played last night that Moss has a skill set that Ellingson will never have.

I am hoping that Moss is like Williams last year, that at a certain point he gains Fran's trust and by the end of the year he is part of the rotation. If that happens he will absolutely be a contributor for 3 years at Iowa.

Ellingson is not good. If he's not getting his minutes now when he's in his second year in the program I think he's a miss

 

[deanvogs]

Ellingson is not good. If he's not getting his minutes now when he's in his second year in the program I think he's a miss

Ellingson is getting and will get minutes because he doesn't hurt the team with mental mistakes, turnovers, and bad shots. Moss just isn't there on that part of the game yet, but he will get there. I think in a couple years you are gonna wanna forget that you are calling him a miss, just because he has some of the same disciple issues that Jok did. Fran just didn't have any other options but to play Jok while he was rebuilding the team.

 

[Hawk5656]

Ellingson is getting and will get minutes because he doesn't hurt the team with mental mistakes, turnovers, and bad shots. Moss just isn't there on that part of the game yet, but he will get there. I think in a couple years you are gonna wanna forget that you are calling him a miss, just because he has some of the same disciple issues that Jok did. Fran just didn't have any other options but to play Jok while he was rebuilding the team.

Josh was much better than Ellingson and Jok played 20 minutes per game his second year in the program. Horrible comparison

 

[FirstDownHawkeyes]

Ellingson is getting and will get minutes because he doesn't hurt the team with mental mistakes, turnovers, and bad shots. Moss just isn't there on that part of the game yet, but he will get there. I think in a couple years you are gonna wanna forget that you are calling him a miss, just because he has some of the same disciple issues that Jok did. Fran just didn't have any other options but to play Jok while he was rebuilding the team.

Brady is a defensive and rebounding liability. That absolutely hurts the team. If he can't make 40%+ of his 3s and 70% of uncontested 3s, he shouldn't play.

 

[NikeHawk21]

Brady is a defensive and rebounding liability. That absolutely hurts the team. If he can't make 40%+ of his 3s and 70% of uncontested 3s, he shouldn't play.

Brady isn't necessarily a defensive liability, at this point he's probably ahead of Moss in terms of defense.

I'm with you guys though. As this season moves along I hope it's Moss over Brady based on what I've seen so far.

 

[PCHawk]

Josh was much better than Ellingson and Jok played 20 minutes per game his second year in the program. Horrible comparison

Did you skip over the part where Dean said Fran had to play Jok because of the depth around him? This post is why it can be so frustrating debating with you. Dean types up a long thoughtful post that lays out a possibility that makes total sense and you respond with a basic, (I don't want to sound rude but can't think of how else to put this) juvenile level thought process post that completely ignores all of Dean's post.

I don't even disagree that it's very possible Moss will never contribute here. But Dean has a very good point that Moss may be too careless with the ball to get minutes right now. Maybe Moss is Wadley and Ellingson is Weisman. Now I personally didn't like Wadley not playing back then, but it sure didn't mean Wadley was a miss.

 

[PCHawk]

Brady is a defensive and rebounding liability. That absolutely hurts the team. If he can't make 40%+ of his 3s and 70% of uncontested 3s, he shouldn't play.

A rebounding liability? How many rebounds does a backing shooting guard who only gets around 10 minutes per game usually average? Maybe one? Even if Ellingson gets zero, is he really a liability because he didn't get the average of one?

 

[PCHawk]

Josh was much better than Ellingson and Jok played 20 minutes per game his second year in the program. Horrible comparison

You kept sighting the beginning of last year to say Williams sucked because he was behind Ellingson. Completely ignoring the part where he passed him latee in the year. These last two games doesn't guarantee anything, but he sure looks good to me. In fact, I'm even more sure that point guard will be an upgrade this year after watching him.

 

[ibahawkeye]

If Moss can't beat out Ellingson for minutes.... it's a bad sign. Moss only played 4 minutes and still outscored Brady.

I didn't see the game but box score shows that Brady played 15 minutes, yet only attempted one shot. I've said it all along, his value is supposed to be as a shooter but he's not even athletic enough to get open to get shots off. And don't give me the he's not a defensive liability. His slow foot speed is certainly a liability, we likely won't press when he's in the game and we will probably play more zone with him in the game to avoid him having to play man to man if we are matched up against a team who have athletic 2 guards on the floor at the same time as Brady.

 

[ibahawkeye]

You kept sighting the beginning of last year to say Williams sucked because he was behind Ellingson. Completely ignoring the part where he passed him latee in the year. These last two games doesn't guarantee anything, but he sure looks good to me. In fact, I'm even more sure that point guard will be an upgrade this year after watching him.

I bet if Fran could do it over, he would have given Williams more minutes earlier in the year.

Fran started making changes later in the year to play Williams more instead of Brady. Let's hope Fran goes with Moss ahead of Brady this year.

 

[PCHawk]

If Moss can't beat out Ellingson for minutes.... it's a bad sign. Moss only played 4 minutes and still outscored Brady.

I didn't see the game but box score shows that Brady played 15 minutes, yet only attempted one shot. I've said it all along, his value is supposed to be as a shooter but he's not even athletic enough to get open to get shots off. And don't give me the he's not a defensive liability. His slow foot speed is certainly a liability, we likely won't press when he's in the game and we will probably play more zone with him in the game to avoid him having to play man to man if we are matched up against a team who have athletic 2 guards on the floor at the same time as Brady.

If Moss is behind Brady at the end of the year, he will almost certainly transfer. Hopefully he goes the route of Williams. Starts the season behind Brady, moves past him as the year goes on, then is a big contributor next year.

 

[PCHawk]

I bet if Fran could do it over, he would have given Williams more minutes earlier in the year.

Fran started making changes later in the year to play Williams more instead of Brady. Let's hope Fran goes with Moss ahead of Brady this year.

You beat me to it. Moss definitely has a higher ceiling, but Fran must think he also has a lower floor than Brady too. I really hope he gets going because he looks like he can be really good.

 

[Mademyaccount4u]

Honestly, after looking at this, and Fran's future recruits/recruiting ability, if either or both are a miss. I think Fran can replace them with the talent coming in the next few years. I doubt that all of our guards are going to be misses so out of Daily, Moss, Ellingson and Conner next year, two of them have got to be outside of the "miss" category.

 

[TritonHawkeye]

Moss isn't getting minutes and won't until he defensively improves. Ellingson is a better defender than Moss, Brady may not be as quick but doesn't reach like Isaiah and has better footwork. What I saw defensively from Moss was far from impressive. I agree that there is a comparison between him an Peter.

We will see if Moss can improve on defense the way Jok has done over the years.

 

[deanvogs]

Did you skip over the part where Dean said Fran had to play Jok because of the depth around him? This post is why it can be so frustrating debating with you. Dean types up a long thoughtful post that lays out a possibility that makes total sense and you respond with a basic, (I don't want to sound rude but can't think of how else to put this) juvenile level thought process post that completely ignores all of Dean's post.

I don't even disagree that it's very possible Moss will never contribute here. But Dean has a very good point that Moss may be too careless with the ball to get minutes right now. Maybe Moss is Wadley and Ellingson is Weisman. Now I personally didn't like Wadley not playing back then, but it sure didn't mean Wadley was a miss.

Meh, I'm used to it with 56. No comparisons are really hold water if you are going to strip away every small thing that isn't exactly the same. I basically had the same argument with CyTwins on Clowntownfanatics about Jok. I told him he was raw, and he was gonna be good. CyTwins said he was a Drake level player, was junk and would never be any good.

Some people can see potential.......some can't.