Moss testing the NBA process

[HawkGold]

I'm on the fence of late baby boomer/early generation X. Things started to change in our generation. We still obeyed authority but were
the first to start to question it. And like you said, we are the ones raising the millennials, many of us with college educations.

I'll never forget my high school government teacher in 1983 telling us that in our lifetime, we would see a day when kids would no longer fear authority and that the parents and teachers would in fact fear the kids. And teenage kids would go on shooting rampages in high schools. We laughed at him. I have a fourteen year old, a seventeen year old and a twenty year old. I wish I was still laughing now.

There is a gap that is identified as neither boomers or really Xers. Those are the birth years where numbers really dropped. Those are the one's who started working in the early mid 80s which were terrible economic times arguably worse than 10 years ago. The don't have the privilege nor could they take advantages the changes of lower populations forced for those born later.

That age group obeying authority? Seriously? Not in my part of Iowa. Kids in my class dragged a deputy sheriff down the road. Threw bricks in teachers windows at their kids.

What we have today are kids who are the most well rounded ever and kids who get no help. The latter group is growing and the first group is finding things not so easy do to lack of economic growth.

When we were in school kids were afraid of teachers for real reasons not good.

Home ownership is lower than ever in modern times by younger people. The other thing that has changed and it is showing up in Iowa, if you don't buy a 300k house in many cities, your neighborhood probably isn't that safe. Buy one for under 200k in Council Bluffs or even Iowa City.

Some of you are totally out of touch with the real word we find ourselves in.

 

[Northside Hawk]

There is a gap that is identified as neither boomers or really Xers. Those are the birth years where numbers really dropped. Those are the one's who started working in the early mid 80s which were terrible economic times arguably worse than 10 years ago. The don't have the privilege nor could they take advantages the changes of lower populations forced for those born later.

That age group obeying authority? Seriously? Not in my part of Iowa. Kids in my class dragged a deputy sheriff down the road. Threw bricks in teachers windows at their kids.

What we have today are kids who are the most well rounded ever and kids who get no help. The latter group is growing and the first group is finding things not so easy do to lack of economic growth.

When we were in school kids were afraid of teachers for real reasons not good.

Home ownership is lower than ever in modern times by younger people. The other thing that has changed and it is showing up in Iowa, if you don't buy a 300k house in many cities, your neighborhood probably isn't that safe. Buy one for under 200k in Council Bluffs or even Iowa City.

Some of you are totally out of touch with the real word we find ourselves in.

Dude, don't lecture me. We went off the board a few weeks ago and had a nice conversation about the real world you say I am totally out of touch with. I haven't changed that much in a few weeks.

The examples you bring up with the deputy sheriff and the bricks are a direct result of teachers no longer able to put the fear of God in students for what you say were real reasons not good. So which way is the right way? You can't cover your ass on both sides.

There are plenty of houses available for 200 k in safe neighborhoods. You're right on fewer young couples buying them, however. I was behind the curve remembering what helped the market crash of 2008.

You have stated in the past that Fran is abusive. Any documented examples, besides the verbal tongue lashings?

 

[HawkGold]

Dude, don't lecture me. We went off the board a few weeks ago and had a nice conversation about the real world you say I am totally out of touch with. I haven't changed that much in a few weeks.

The examples you bring up with the deputy sheriff and the bricks are a direct result of teachers no longer able to put the fear of God in students for what you say were real reasons not good. So which way is the right way? You can't cover your ass on both sides.

There are plenty of houses available for 200 k in safe neighborhoods. You're right on fewer young couples buying them, however. I was behind the curve remembering what helped the market crash of 2008.

You have stated in the past that Fran is abusive. Any documented examples, besides the verbal tongue lashings?

It doesn't take much to notice the guy is a lunatic.

200k when looking at schools in most viable communities of any size. Again go to Waterloo or Council Bluffs and look.

Been looking at relocating to Iowa so I've looked into quite a bit. Same with Michigan which is another consideration. Houses..yes for under 200. Where you really want to live 300 give or take is about it. It's just different now.

Not sure what you are talking about otherwise. Being abusive as teachers doesn't mean the fear of God in them. It's not both ways.

I just get worn out with people dissing millennial. They are the one's fighting our stupid wars including my son in law and son. Probably a bit grumpy about it. My kids are so far ahead of myself and my classmates than what I ever dreamed about in what they are doing.

Go to areavibes and look up livability scores. It's really hard to find a community with an index of 80 plus that is in the price range of under 200k. Carroll is an exception. Even in the upper 70s its tough to find.

 

[Northside Hawk]

It doesn't take much to notice the guy is a lunatic.

200k when looking at schools in most viable communities of any size. Again go to Waterloo or Council Bluffs and look.

Been looking at relocating to Iowa so I've looked into quite a bit. Same with Michigan which is another consideration. Houses..yes for under 200. Where you really want to live 300 give or take is about it. It's just different now.

Not sure what you are talking about otherwise. Being abusive as teachers doesn't mean the fear of God in them. It's not both ways.

I just get worn out with people dissing millennial. They are the one's fighting our stupid wars including my son in law and son. Probably a bit grumpy about it. My kids are so far ahead of myself and my classmates than what I ever dreamed about in what they are doing.

Go to areavibes and look up livability scores. It's really hard to find a community with an index of 80 plus that is in the price range of under 200k. Carroll is an exception. Even in the upper 70s its tough to find.

Gold, you know what I just did? I reread our private conversation from March 14 that was, and is, nobody else's business. I'm not going to devolve this any further, i have too much respect for what you said that night. And the first hand experience you had. You just got me boiling a little bit when you mentioned the two incidents. Those could have happened with any generation. I just remember kids our age being held more accountable.

Comparing generations and discussing millennials does wear us out, doesn't it. But it's human nature. And this generation will be doing it to the next in twenty years.

We got way off topic here. I thought you were being critical of authority (teachers) for being too tough then saying someone had to be responsible for the rebellious behavior of the rebels in the incidents you mentioned.

BTW I grew up in the 22nd Street neighborhood of Dubuque. That's what my moniker is a tribute to. The North End of Dubuque is not for the faint of heart. Our grade school was in the shadow of the Pack. When it slaughtered hogs. Some days it smelled worse than rotten eggs. Many of my classmates had parents who worked there. Until the jobs were eliminated.

 

[HawkGold]

Gold, you know what I just did? I reread our private conversation from March 14 that was, and is, nobody else's business. I'm not going to devolve this any further, i have too much respect for what you said that night. And the first hand experience you had. You just got me boiling a little bit when you mentioned the two incidents. Those could have happened with any generation. I just remember kids our age being held more accountable.

Comparing generations and discussing millennials does wear us out, doesn't it. But it's human nature. And this generation will be doing it to the next in twenty years.

We got way off topic here. I thought you were being critical of authority (teachers) for being too tough then saying someone had to be responsible for the rebellious behavior of the rebels in the incidents you mentioned.

If it's worth anything... sorry for the approach.

 

[dahlhawk]

I guess I'm used to Iowa players after a less than stellar season talk about working on improvement, turning things around, working on fundamentals. Instead, all I'm hearing about is getting evaluated for the NBA, mostly concerned about their own personal goals. How does Fran turn this group of players back into a team? Team goals ahead of personal, and playing for each other again.

 

[dwghawk]

Second guessing another person's personal decisions is lots of fun, for some people.

 

[ssckelley]

Damn, who knew that we had 2 potential NBA players on a 14-19 team?

 

[koralakers]

I think Moss COULD be a pro, at some level. Has enough athleticism, size, and even shooting ability. Of course, not enough 'body of work' so far to warrant it (wasn't even honorable mention BIG), BUT, if he improves game, and most importantly, CONSISTENCY, he could. Probably will need a couple more years to improve those things.

 

[Xerxes]

I'm on the fence of late baby boomer/early generation X. Things started to change in our generation. We still obeyed authority but were
the first to start to question it. And like you said, we are the ones raising the millennials, many of us with college educations.

I'll never forget my high school government teacher in 1983 telling us that in our lifetime, we would see a day when kids would no longer fear authority and that the parents and teachers would in fact fear the kids. And teenage kids would go on shooting rampages in high schools. We laughed at him. I have a fourteen year old, a seventeen year old and a twenty year old. I wish I was still laughing now.

As someone who has spent much of my professional life in education field I can say without hesitation your high school government teacher is a genius and I wish I would have spoken to him prior to starting college.

As for the bolded part it made me laugh, not necessarily in a good way though. The last thing I said to my principal after he asked me why I was leaving a career that I had invested 20 years in, for a job that was paying me less and expecting me to work more was that teachers are no longer the authority figures in their own classrooms. But as you said, I'm a GenXer to and we are raising these kids.

 

[allup86]

Sometimes Iowa fans really piss me off. This process does nothing but help Moss in the long run and poses no risk in the short term. He gets to hear from pro scouts and organizations on what he needs to improve on and give realistic, attainable benchmarks to strive for in a voice that isn't one he hears on a daily basis.

But I forget, you yelled 'Get off my lawn' walking up hill both ways.

 

[WinOneThisCentury]

People need to give the guy a break. He probably knows this is a long shot...but why wouldn't you do this. Maybe the NBA people tell him you need to do these things...get better at man defense, improve your handle, create your shots and create for your teammates, then you have a shot. So, Moss then comes back to Iowa, with a mission...and a new fire. All good.

 

[Northside Hawk]

People need to give the guy a break. He probably knows this is a long shot...but why wouldn't you do this. Maybe the NBA people tell him you need to do these things...get better at man defense, improve your handle, create your shots and create for your teammates, then you have a shot. So, Moss then comes back to Iowa, with a mission...and a new fire. All good.

That's a good point and one I was trying to make. He could come back on a mission. The flashes could happen with more consistency and he could stay ahead of Weiscamp in the rotation. I'm sure he's not just going to hand Joe the minutes without a fight.

 

[thejumper5]

If anyone is interested in a breakdown of what all the NBA evaluation process entails, I found this to be informative:

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/22854438/testing-nba-draft-waters-more-complicated-sounds

 

[thejumper5]

If anyone is interested in a breakdown of what all the NBA evaluation process entails, I found this to be informative:

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/22854438/testing-nba-draft-waters-more-complicated-sounds

For those who hold the "Why would he do this? Things are so terrible!" position, the process can be extremely short and simple for a player who ultimately does not get invited to the Combine. In 2017, only 67 players (internationals and seniors included) were invited to the combine out of more than 150 who initially declared for the draft.:

"The UAC sends NBA executives a series of emails with a list of names, requesting their team's assessment of players' draft stock. The player is then informed of the consensus reached by weighing the NBA executives' responses and offering feedback on whether the player is likely to be a lottery pick, first-rounder, second-rounder or undrafted."

The process can stop there if the player would like.

On the other hand, for those who hold the "There's no downside! Why wouldn't he take advantage of this?" position, there are genuine risks:

"Underclassmen considering making themselves eligible will need to keep in mind that there's a certain stigma that gets attached to players who enter and then withdraw from the draft, often having to fight the notion that they were deemed not good enough to stay in."

 

[ShemHawk]

We also heard every single game from commentators about how deep we are, and how dangerous that makes Iowa. That's the kind of shiat that gets said when commentators see the same dumpster fire over and over, and there really are very few positives if any. Think Dakich this year.

We were deep (except at point), we were dangerous (ask Michigan). They didn't say that about everyone and I think they all very (mostly) politely said that IM had that potential but needed to decide he wanted to do something with it.
And don't ever...EVER...tell someone to think about Dakich!!

 

[SheagleHawk]

We were deep (except at point), we were dangerous (ask Michigan). They didn't say that about everyone and I think they all very (mostly) politely said that IM had that potential but needed to decide he wanted to do something with it.
And don't ever...EVER...tell someone to think about Dakich!!

C'mon...deep with avg to below avg Power 5 guys maybe. Tons of guys played bc there was very little talent separation. On a sub-500 team that ain't good. We were dangerous?? Again, we were curbstomped in more than half our conference games and several non-con games. Sure we played a few good games, and were inevitably overlooked numerous times.

 

[HaydenHawk56]

If anyone is interested in a breakdown of what all the NBA evaluation process entails, I found this to be informative:

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/22854438/testing-nba-draft-waters-more-complicated-sounds

Good find jumper......quite informative. Does seem a bit complicated and does talk about more of a risk to players who if things don't go well and they pull out of the draft process, could damage their reputation in the future with the NBA. That does not get mentioned much with the other side of the coin in providing information to the player on what to improve upon. Seems from reading some NBA franchises want to collect as much information as possible on potential players and others are not so much on data collection.

But circling back to Cook and Moss (like others have said above) the fact they are playing "NBA American Idol" right now and we are not hearing much about how this Iowa team is going to get better in addition to the passive aggressive responses on twitter by Iowa players and an Iowa Assistant Coach, well it doesn't exactly give you warm and fuzzy feelings about this team's cohesiveness does it?

 

[Knight78]

All you have to do is look at at team's (or coach's) record in games decided by one possession or fewer and you will quickly see who has the mentally tough kids and who doesn't. Sometimes it's luck, but more often than not, it's no accident.

I would disagree with that. My senior year in HS, we were 3-16. If you took out one game (20+ point loss) every other game was decided by 8 points or less. There were only 2 seniors on that team, myself and a guard. Two of the teams in the EIHC qualified for the state tournament that year. The next year, the team went 15-5; no teams qualified for the state tournament. Sometimes, it's who you play.

 

[Knight78]

Sometimes Iowa fans really piss me off. This process does nothing but help Moss in the long run and poses no risk in the short term. He gets to hear from pro scouts and organizations on what he needs to improve on and give realistic, attainable benchmarks to strive for in a voice that isn't one he hears on a daily basis.

But I forget, you yelled 'Get off my lawn' walking up hill both ways.

I completely agree. Some people here say that he (or Cook) doesn't trust Fran. I don't see it like that. I look at it as Fran has been telling them things they need to work on for two (or more) years. They get to the point where they don't believe it. They need some other authority to tell them what Fran has been saying.

It's like when you as a parent tell your kid what they are capable of and what they aren't doing. The kid won't listen to you for some reason. But when another person of authority tells them, they believe it. I lived through that exact situation with my two kids. All you can do as a parent is thank that other person for telling your kid what you had been saying for years.