Miller: Everybody's Talking

JonDMiller

JonDMiller

Publisher/Founder
I wanted to pull a few conversations from the message boards here to the front of the site as I think there could be a theme developing that we will see a lot of this off season...I hope it doesn't turn into Hatfield's vs McCoy's...or the Stoops vs Ferentz meltdown we had for nearly two years on the first message boards I moderated related to Hawkeye athletics.

The conversation sampled below is similar to several others I have seen this week and comes from Rawhawk73 on the boards:

This "woe is us, we're just little ol' Iowa" doesn't hold water any longer. We have elite level money, elite level players, elite level facilities and elite level exposure. But only 2 shared conference titles, no National Championship appearances, and seven 5 loss teams (with two of those teams that flat out quit on the season). So if it's not money, not players, not facilities and not exposure.....what is it?

Now, I haven’t seen anyone saying ‘woe is us’ and ‘Iowa cant do great things’.

Iowa has been doing great things and is in the midst of that run. I realize this year and the disappointment of a 7-5 season stings. It stings for me, too.

But I wonder if some people have really and truly appreciated what has taken place the last decade and weren't just looking on the horizon for what's next, we want more, onward and upward, etc.

As for Iowa not having played for the national title, which was part of the post cited above....

With the exception of Virginia Tech & Tennessee, every school that has played for a BCS title had previously won a national title in either the 1970's, 1980's or 1990's. Ohio State won it in 2002, and their next most recent is 1970. So you can add them to the group of Tennessee and VT if you want to say 1980's and 1990's.

Here are the programs that have played for the BCS national title since it began in 1998, and in parenthesis, their all time rank in winning percentage in the history of the game:

Texas (3)
Ohio State (4)
Oklahoma (5)
Alabama (6)
USC (7)
Nebraska (8)
Tennessee (9)
Florida State (11)
LSU (13)
Miami (14)
Florida (15)
Virginia Tech (21)

How about them apples, huh? Interesting how it matches up pretty nicely with the history of the sport, right? So much for history and tradition not being huge factors when trying to break through to the next level as a program.

Michigan & Notre Dame are 1 and 2 in all time wining percentage, and have never played for the BCS title, nor has 10 Penn State, 12 Georgia. It's why Notre Dame has had a barrel full of coaches since their last title in the 1980's and Michigan might be looking for a new coach.

Auburn is 16th on the all time list and is line to get to the BCS title game this year. Oregon probably gets their shot and would really be the only true outlier to have ever played for a BCS title because Virginia Tech is 21st all time in winning percentage.

Iowa is 57th on this list.

Now, some will say that how Iowa fared in the 1960's and 1970's when a lot of losses mounted up does not have ANY effect on Iowa in 2010.

I don't necessarily agree and you can read the next post in this thread to see what I am talking about.

It's really good right now when you look at the last decade, yet everyone would love for it to be better and no one is happy about this year's 7-5 record.

This is where I agree with most everyone; not coming through in a year like this might not just be one step back in the effort to bang the door down to become an elite because you need to take advantage of seasons like this to keep pushing that bar. So there's no need for any arguments on this front.

Yet I see so many people seemingly ignoring the reality that Iowa is in the tier just beneath the historical elites, over the past decade.

One final thought. I read a post on Wednesday night where someone said that Iowa has the 10th most players in the NFL right now of any school in the nation, and therefore we should expect better results.

It's one of two things; either Iowa has recruited with the big boys in the sport year in and year out and is an NFL football factory because they get the best of the best, or they have an amazing eye for talent and do an even better job at turning players that few major schools want into kids that dot NFL rosters.

Having covered Iowa football recruiting for the entire Ferentz era save for this last year, but having paid attention to it, I can assure you its the latter, not the former. At best, Iowa has averaged the 5th or 6th best recruiting classes in the Big Ten over the past 10 years.

Yet no other school outside of Ohio State has more Big Ten wins than Iowa.

For those that want to see people get fired because Iowa went 7-5 this year, be sure to remember you are talking about the same people that have turned nobody's into NFL millionaires and people that have built Iowa into a Top 15 program in the sport, despite the challenges they face that the aristocracy of the sport do not have to deal with.
 
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Here is the continuation from where I linked above and cited in the front page story

During the the latter half of the 1950's decade and through the 1960 season Iowa was a college football power, winning their only national title. In fact, from 1955 to 1960, Iowa was 10th in the nation in winning percentage which made them the most dominant program in the Midwest at the time.

Notre Dame? In the 60's as far as winning percentage rank. Nebraska? 118th. Michigan? 47th. Minnesota? 88th, and they were a power in the first half of the last century.

It was Iowa's time...and they were rolling with Forest Evachevski...and then there was the Evy-Paul Brechler war at Iowa in the late 1950's. *Brechler was Iowa's athletics director and he and Evy did not see eye to eye. *Brechler would leave, and Evy wanted to be the head football coach and the Athletics Director, but the Iowa board of Athletics didn't want one man to have that much power and they made him choose one or the other. *Evy decided to take the AD job and the 1960 season would be his last.

Iowa finished 8-1 that year, tied with Minnesota at 8-1 with their lone loss coming to the Gophers. *Iowa finished that year #2 in the AP, behind #1 Minnesota. *In Evy's 12 years at Iowa, the Hawkeyes won three Big Ten titles, two Rose Bowls and finished in the Top Five of the AP five times, with one national title. *As I have mentioned, during that same time, Iowa was the premier football program in the Midwest.

That internal squabble in Iowa City may have turned the tides for a few schools. Starting in 1962, the Hawkeyes didn't have another winning season until 1981.

Meanwhile, Nebraska hired Bob Devaney in 1962 and they went from three wins to 9, never to look back. Michigan and Ohio State both went on tears, Notre Dame rebuilt.

I think you can make an argument that had Evy stayed on at Iowa as its coach (he was in his 40's when he retired from coaching at Iowa), Nebraska would have had a much tougher time doing what they did...as well as a few others.

Iowa lost their chance, right there, to be a power. 19 straight losing seasons later, it took an amazing job by Fry to turn it around and start the process, the long and arduous process, of getting back to being respectable and beyond.

What Iowa has going right now is something we should all be proud of. * The list of schools that had runs of success like Iowa had under Evy only to never return again are long; take a look at this link to see teams winning percentages between 1955-1960 and notice several that are no longer relevant.

But there was a missed opportunity in 1959 and 1960 for Iowa to have what the schools that play for the national title every year in the present era have; multiple (and consistent) decades of championship level success.

To break into that party in this era is no small task because the rich really do get richer. While Iowa was rebuilding its brand, or really establishing it to a brand new generation in the Fry years, Oklahoma, Nebraska, USC, Michigan, Ohio State and others were just adding to their resume. Heck, Steely Dan wrote a song about Alabama for crying out loud!

History plays a role, even if indirectly, some 40 or 50 years later.
 
So I will pull out a couple nuggets.

"Meanwhile, Nebraska hired Bob Devaney in 1962 and they went from three wins to 9, never to look back."

Clearly here 'coaching' made all the difference. There was no other inherent advantage so that same opportunity exists today.. to establish a new era.

Also, given Oregon likely playing for the BCS this year. Arguably they have come from much further back to establish themselves as the new Elite? They have been building for several years now. So why shouldn't we expect that we should be the 'Oregon'?

I see no reason to believe that the current course we are on is going forward. I think we have found our wall? I hope not but we will certainly know over the next two years where we are.
 
Very good post jon, I agree with everything you said. People really need to realize the fact that not another school outside ohio st has more big ten wins then iowa over the last 10 years. Great Post
 
hwks1 said:
So I will pull out a couple nuggets.

"Meanwhile, Nebraska hired Bob Devaney in 1962 and they went from three wins to 9, never to look back."

Clearly here 'coaching' made all the difference. There was no other inherent advantage so that same opportunity exists today.. to establish a new era.

Also, given Oregon likely playing for the BCS this year. Arguably they have come from much further back to establish themselves as the new Elite? They have been building for several years now. So why shouldn't we expect that we should be the 'Oregon'?

I see no reason to believe that the current course we are on is going forward. I think we have found our wall? I hope not but we will certainly know over the next two years where we are.
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There was a void created when Evy left. OSU is rolling right now. Nebraska is on the rise. Iowa is doing quite well on the whole, thank you very much.

As for Oregon, and the 'why shouldn't we EXPECT that we should be the 'Oregon'

We all want for that. We all hope that it can happen. But to EXPECT it is another thing, when they will now be the only example of a team outside the historical Top 21 in all time winning percentage to make it.
 
First, I want to make sure that I do not get lumped into the group that is calling for Ferentz to be replaced. I'm not. I believe a person can question decisions and philosophy of a coaching staff without requiring that the coach be removed.

Second, you brought up some pretty heavy hitters in today's college football world. I want to make sure everyone understands a few things they may not know:

1. Iowa has more athletic department revenues than Nebraska, Oklahoma and USC and on par with Notre Dame and LSU.

2. Iowa has more players on NFL rosters than Oklahoma, Nebraska, Alabama, and Auburn and only 1 less than Florida.

3. In fact, Iowa ranks 10th in the total number of players on NFL rosters. Of those 10, 7 of them have won BCS National Titles in the last decade. Only Iowa, Georgia and Cal have not.

The point is, we've caught up to the rest of the "blue bloods" of college football in terms of money, players, facilities and overall exposure. What we have to show for it are 7 seasons of 5 losses or more (Hayden only had 3 such seasons hist 1st 12 years and he was coming into a program with a 20 year stretch of losing), 2 shared conference championships, 1 BSC bowl win and 2 seasons where our team lay down and quit.

You would think that with the amount of money our athletic department brings in, the number of players we send to the NFL, the quality facilities and the amount of exposure our program gets that we would have more to show for it. As I mentioned before, the only other explanation is our coaching staff.
 
The 'we've caught up' comments, yet to ignore HOW THE HECK we've caught up, is quite a contradiction, no?

How do you think Iowa has caught up? Best freaking decade in school history. Have they done it with Blue Chip recruits? heck no, they have done it with a keen eye for talent and a better job of developing those players. People are acting like that doesn't factor into how Iowa has caught up
 
I'm not calling for any Coaching change. But coaches do have to be willing to change. Tom Osborne completely revamped his defense to win his Natl Championships..

Coaches must adapt and change. Can ours? ..... Will ours?
 
Its like this. If you have a financial advisor and he takes your 100K and turns it into a million dollars over a few years he is awesome. then over the next 2 years the million goes to 700K. Now you could fire that guy and get someone else that may turn it back into a mill or he might turn it into to toilet paper. I say dance with the girl that brung ya. I don't like to make emotional decisions and I am sure that things will be OK in the end. The only thing that concerns me is the defense and the inevitable exit of Norm Parker. I hope we get the right guy to fill in those shoes.
 
SDHAWKFAN said:
Very good post jon, I agree with everything you said. People really need to realize the fact that not another school outside ohio st has more big ten wins then iowa over the last 10 years. Great Post
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Great stat, but it really means nothing to some people. Big Ten titles and a National Championship are the name of the game these days. When you taste success, you keep wanting more and more and anything less isn't good enough....

Let's look at the basketball team under Tom Davis. Year after year he took Iowa to the NCAA tourney, but fans and the administration became complacent and wanted more than just the sweet 16. And look what happened....downward spiral. I think we should be thanking our lucky stars that we have what we have now, but it's so dang hard not to want and expect more, especially when we are knocking on the door to greatness.
 
Rawkhawk73 said:
First, I want to make sure that I do not get lumped into the group that is calling for Ferentz to be replaced. I'm not. I believe a person can question decisions and philosophy of a coaching staff without requiring that the coach be removed.

Second, you brought up some pretty heavy hitters in today's college football world. I want to make sure everyone understands a few things they may not know:

1. Iowa has more athletic department revenues than Nebraska, Oklahoma and USC and on par with Notre Dame and LSU.

2. Iowa has more players on NFL rosters than Oklahoma, Nebraska, Alabama, and Auburn and only 1 less than Florida.

3. In fact, Iowa ranks 10th in the total number of players on NFL rosters. Of those 10, 7 of them have won BCS National Titles in the last decade. Only Iowa, Georgia and Cal have not.

The point is, we've caught up to the rest of the "blue bloods" of college football in terms of money, players, facilities and overall exposure. What we have to show for it are 7 seasons of 5 losses or more (Hayden only had 3 such seasons hist 1st 12 years and he was coming into a program with a 20 year stretch of losing), 2 shared conference championships, 1 BSC bowl win and 2 seasons where our team lay down and quit.

You would think that with the amount of money our athletic department brings in, the number of players we send to the NFL, the quality facilities and the amount of exposure our program gets that we would have more to show for it. As I mentioned before, the only other explanation is our coaching staff.
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THIS X 1000000000000000!!!!!

Perfect
 
JonDMiller said:
The 'we've caught up' comments, yet to ignore HOW THE HECK we've caught up, is quite a contradiction, no?

How do you think Iowa has caught up? Best freaking decade in school history. Have they done it with Blue Chip recruits? heck no, they have done it with a keen eye for talent and a better job of developing those players. People are acting like that doesn't factor into how Iowa has caught up
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Jon,

I'm going to call you out somewhat on this "best decade in school history" stuff.

What makes a great decade? Is it just wins? Sure, that's part of it. But in a 10 year stretch under Hayden we won 3 Big 10 championships (one of them outright) and went to 3 Rose Bowls. We also didn't play UNI, Eastern Illinois, Ball St., etc. in the non-conference either.

Also, when I say we "caught up", I'm talking in terms of "intangibles".....money, players, facilities, etc. The on-field successes related to where we are at in those things does NOT match up.
 
hwks1 said:
So I will pull out a couple nuggets.

Also, given Oregon likely playing for the BCS this year. Arguably they have come from much further back to establish themselves as the new Elite? They have been building for several years now. So why shouldn't we expect that we should be the 'Oregon'?
Click to expand...

Nike
 
I'm sure this point has been made, but Ferentz and his staff have taken players that were "under the radar" and not recruited by other schools and made them into NFL players. Just a few examples:

1. Greenway
2. Dallas Clark
3. Bob Sanders
4. Angerer

That ability speaks well of this staff.
 
Jon, our offense had underperformed, badly in many seasons, for Kirk's entire tenure here. The serial substandard performance of the offense magnifies every little defensive or special teams faux pas. I don't love the bend-and-then-break defense but the stats say it works for the most part.

The offense needs to improve. It has to improve. And it can improve. That is why we are so frustrated. It's just an obvious deficiency that is holding back the program from achieving its potential. It's not just the lack of creativity either. It's the shoddy clock management, the clueless two minute drill, the tardy play relays to the QB. The offense is the habitual weak link. It has to be fixed. We can survive getting gutted on D against Northwestern so long as we put up points. Sometimes you just have to outscore your opponent. Our offense almost always has the horses to do just that but often fails to get it done.

O'Keefe has to change or he has to go. Now. Period. This program won't achieve its potential otherwise.
 
Jon -

I mean no offense by this but I feel like you're ******* on my leg and telling me it's raining.

No one is suggesting Iowa football is in a bad place, just that given all of the factors that are in place now, that they should be in a better place than they are now, and as I said in another thread, they could certainly start by finally beating the stupid teams they are supposed to beat.

yes, I'll take guaranteed wins over NW, IU and Minnesota and trade it for .500 against PSU.
 
That is a good post Jon, I think that the problem is that two of the more highly touted Ferentz era teams 2005 and 2010 fell flat on their faces. Those two seasons have a lot in common. Close losses, veteran QB who drastically improved every number except wins, better running game, but the team in general couldn't come through in the clutch. When Iowa is expected to do great things for some reason the wheels come off.

I don't think that there is a historical explanation. The answers to those questions must come from inside the football complex. The staff has mishandled this season. Yes the players should have played better in every loss, but the staff has to be held accountable.
I think that you are correct that this will be waged all off season. Remember the attendance number for the spring event? Remember the first of its kind pre-media day? At least the staff embraced the expectations. The fanbase certainly did and should have. I am not sure that Iowa will ever have a more talented and experienced team combine with that kind of schedule. This is the kind of opportunity lost that is just dumbfounding to me that it could end up at 7-5.

One last thing that you like to point out- recruiting services are out to sell magazines, subscriptions, etc. So a player that commits to Iowa may be better or equally athletic to a player that commits to a Michigan or an OSU, Notre Dame, etc. The talent gap is closing. Our top players, especially on defense are as talented and fast as any in the Big Ten. What we do on defense can be seen to be aggressive, but it is also limiting versus many of the offenses we play. I don't want a large change, I want tweaks. I want teams to actually have to prepare for Iowa. I am tired of teams saying they know what they are going to get when they face Iowa- because the talent gap between Iowa and OSU is close but it is even closer between Iowa and Northwestern, Indiana, et al.
 
JonDMiller said:
The 'we've caught up' comments, yet to ignore HOW THE HECK we've caught up, is quite a contradiction, no?

How do you think Iowa has caught up? Best freaking decade in school history. Have they done it with Blue Chip recruits? heck no, they have done it with a keen eye for talent and a better job of developing those players. People are acting like that doesn't factor into how Iowa has caught up
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Jon, you can feed us stats all day. It's NOT GOING TO MATTER to some people. Best freaking decade? So what. No National title. To some that means everything.

Last season was awesome, but also the most frustrating season I've had as a Hawkeye fan. Each and every week games came down to the wire. It was so emotionally draining. Same goes for this season but on a different level. Injuries killed the season, the team didn't seem their mentally, some of the coaching moves were suspect..... Who thought this team would be 7-5? NOBODY!!

It's just hard not to be upset because the expectations for this season were so dang high, and for once many of us felt like this was our year. THIS WAS OUR YEAR!!! We could almost taste it. The schedule set up nicely and we had the players to do it. Not just a Big Ten Championship, but a National Title. Who knows, Iowa may never have a team or a season that held so much promise like this years. That is why people are frustrated.
 
Hayden was known for playing plenty of patsies during the 80s. He softened the schedule as he went along. Some examples:

1. Drake
2. N. Illinois
3. Iowa State before McCarney arrived (they were awful).
4. Tulsa
5. Kansas State (when they were the worst team in the Big 8 by far)
6. Cincinnati pre-Big East

I really don't think you can argue that Fry played a tougher schedule in the 80s as opposed to Ferentz in the 00s. Oh, and by the way, Penn State was not even in the Big Ten in the 80s -- big difference.

Fry was 0-3 in BCS bowls; Ferentz is 1-1.
 
JonDMiller said:
The 'we've caught up' comments, yet to ignore HOW THE HECK we've caught up, is quite a contradiction, no?

How do you think Iowa has caught up? Best freaking decade in school history. Have they done it with Blue Chip recruits? heck no, they have done it with a keen eye for talent and a better job of developing those players. People are acting like that doesn't factor into how Iowa has caught up
Click to expand...

I totally agree here Jon. This staff has to be considered one of the best, if not the best at developing kids, but all of that work they've put in (training, teaching, developing) is a complete waste if you can't manage it the right way on game days. This staff gets out-coached on more game days than it does not. And to not be able to manage a game clock properly? C'mon! There's no excuse for that. For how much Kirk's salary is, that is not acceptable.
 
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