Marble is pissed

I have been giving some thought on this. The University of Iowa, under Gary Barta, fostered another PR nightmare by having inconsistent standards....or non-transparent standards on what qualifies having a jersey retired or not.

The Marbles are feeling slighted because their dad was treated differently than past (and future, Garza) place holders in the all time scoring stat in Iowa Men's Basketball.

Barta says one thing about not retiring jerseys, then does another in back to back years.

I think Megan and Garza are certainly deserving of these awards. But I think Roy Marble Sr was to based on the things he did in his playing career at Iowa.

The fact that Garza and Megan are white does not help the cause (especially in these times) and Roy was an African American man. It is important to note that there are other former African American players who had their jerseys retired (like BJ).

I watched the KCRG news tonight. It seems they said Roy Sr did not meet the qualifications to have his jersey retired. But, they did not list what those qualifications are. I think the Marbles and other members of the public would be curious to know what those guidelines are.

I think this is shame how it is all being handled. It may not fix the relationship between Dev Marble and the U of I, but the U of I could do a great PR thing here (instead of completely fucking this up and fucking up another situation) and retire Roy Sr's jersey as well. Honor his accomplishments on the court.....he has more than met the qualifications here.

Then, if moving forward, if you want to add a person's off court character into consideration for a jersey retirement or not....make that a transparent guideline to the public and present and future athletes who play for Iowa.

IMHO. I'm guessing that is probably what the Marble Family would like as well. Just be fair, transparent, and consistent.
 
chadfrey said:
He did, indeed, step on it. Quoted by the C.R. Gazette :
www.thegazette.com

Marble recognition reopens debate over jersey retirements

IOWA CITY – Stricken with cancer, yet still full of charm, Roy Marble was recognized at halftime Saturday to a …
www.thegazette.com www.thegazette.com
Click to expand...
Thanks for the link. Not trying to defend Barta, but the article quoted him as saying," I don't envision retiring any more numbers or jerseys ". Seems like that statement leaves a bit of wiggle room going forward. That being said, Barta is a tool. I watched him speak at an event a few years back and when he was walking out he looked disappointed that nobody wanted to chat with him.
 
"Iowa Athletics, in conjunction with the Iowa Varsity Club, have had different criteria over the years involving accomplishments, All-America recognition, individual awards, etc.," the athletic department said in a statement. "Gary Barta and Iowa administration have been working towards a set of criteria that is more streamlined, in which exact awards and recognition are included. The top two priorities are individual National Player of the Year recognition, and consensus All-America recognition. Gary and Iowa administration will continue to work towards a more direct list of criteria that will be used moving forward."

www.espn.com

Marble family hurt by Garza honor; AD apologizes

Iowa athletic director Gary Barta apologized to the family of Hawkeyes basketball great Roy Marble on Tuesday for any hard feelings they have over the retirement of star player Luka Garza's number.
www.espn.com www.espn.com
 
First, full disclosure, I have defended Gary Barta in the face of multiple attacks on his competency. So rather than a defense, I will pose some questions, with no apologies for any bias you identify.

1. What criteria are used by BT member Universities to determine Jersey # retirements, in any sport? How do we compare?
2. Did Luka Garza deserve to have his # retired? If not, why not?
3. Iowa has a long history of jersey #’s being retired. Why is Barta now being singled out, via a tweet from a former player, whose own father’s viability for the honor, was the topic of controversy, now being condemned via an Internet trial?
4. Should we now examine the legitimacy of the names of players displayed in Kinnick, visible to 10’s of thousands of fans 7 weeks of the year?
5. Did Roy Marble’s behavior later in life have a legitimate bearing on the previous athletic administration’s decision not to retire his jersey #?
If it did, was that a sound decision?
6. Regardless of your view on Barta’s response, which was immediate and public, did his response, along with Fran’s, reduce the drama around young Marble’s Twitter feed? Was that a good PR move?
7. Your call: What should Iowa do in the future to honor, or not honor, outstanding athletic achievement? Stand up and be accountable. Or, sit back and blame GB.
 
WinOneThisCentury said:
My god...the University can pay an administrator $250K to manage artwork in University owned buildings ...but they can't hire a Public Relations department that knows what the hell they are doing?

This would have been anticipated and the Garza thing would have been changed to an event after his career...maybe next year. It should have. Garza is still playing...he's got two tournaments to play. What, are they going to let him wear 55 now? They are such morons.

Marble's family has a right to be angry. It's got nothing to do with Luka being deserving...and I'm sure the Marble family feels that way...it's about respect. The Marbles are Iowa basketball royalty in my book...you have to respect that.
Click to expand...
From what all has transpired in the last couple years in the athletic department it's painfully obvious that the Marketing and PR department needs to be completely gutted.
 
It's pretty cut and dry. Retire the 23 jersey. How many Iowa players have scored 2000 points? All of a sudden being the all-time leading scorer isn't an accomplishment? Has anyone actually worn 23 since Marble? If scoring 2000 is so easy, why hasn't anyone else done it? Clearly an oversight by the University followed by politics post Iowa career. Four straight years of NCAA's, Elite 8. What would we give for that now? Until a week ago the all-time scorer in Iowa history and held for 30 yrs only to be passed by a once-in-a-lifetime 4 year player. Who stays four years now if they are that good? Retire it.
 
proudhawkfan21 said:
It's pretty cut and dry. Retire the 23 jersey. How many Iowa players have scored 2000 points? All of a sudden being the all-time leading scorer isn't an accomplishment? Has anyone actually worn 23 since Marble? If scoring 2000 is so easy, why hasn't anyone else done it? Clearly an oversight by the University followed by politics post Iowa career. Four straight years of NCAA's, Elite 8. What would we give for that now? Until a week ago the all-time scorer in Iowa history and held for 30 yrs only to be passed by a once-in-a-lifetime 4 year player. Who stays four years now if they are that good? Retire it.
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In addition to Ogundele currently wearing it I can recall at least three.

Duez Henderson
Doug Thomas
Jermaine Davis
 
He should have his jersey hung from the rafters. I'm not big on retiring numbers unless that player was super, super special. Megan G. and Luka G. fit that!
 
My two cents:

1. Does Garza deserve to have his jersey retired: 100% Yes.
2. Should they have done it on senior night: No way, wait a few years and have a "coming home" ceremony again
3. Should Marble's jersey be retired: 100% yes
4. Is this all Barta's fault? Yes and No. Marble could have had his jersey retired a long time ago by other ADs. But it is Barta's fault for announcing a jersey retirement before a player's college playing career is even over. To me, it's just amateurish, big time programs don't retire jerseys like this.
5. Was Marble's behavior later in life a part of a reason his jersey isn't retire? I absolutely believe this is the case why it hasn't been done. Which also is why retiring a jersey so early is not ideal (even though I have no reason to believe Garza will do anything wrong in the future)
6. Is Fran to blame for any of this? No, probably not. By all accounts he was good to the Marble family
7. Do I think the marble family has a legitimate right to be upset? Sure, why not. I would understand their reasonings.
 
Devyn's tweet was petulant. He and his family have a legitimate concern, but tweeting out that to the public only served to distract from Luka's well deserved honor. Whether Roy deserves his number retired is a separate discussion that should be had internally and if it needed to go public that could wait. As a player, Devyn should understand that you do not address your grievance by diminishing another's accomplishment.

I hope Roy's number is retired or hung at some point, but right now my focus is on this season and celebrating what Garza has meant to this program.
 
I'm not one that doesn't feel that Marble's jersey should be hung from the rafters, but while the U of I created an absolute PR nightmare with their timing Dev did his dad absolutely no favors either. So now how's the story written if they decide to induct him? IMO it makes the U of I look like they're doing it to save face in the eyes of the public, and it puts an asterisks next to Roy's induction because it makes the retirement of his jersey feel ingenuine.

While I completely blame Barta for the PR nightmare, I feel like Dev was equally as disrespectful to one of his own. Rather than offer Luka any praise for his accomplishments he makes it specifically about "his family" being disrespected by the University and will never watch another game.

Dev was one of my all-time favorite Hawkeyes, but in this case I can't help but see the irony about him feeling disrespected for his dad, but then flipping the script and showing that same level of disrespect toward Luka for having a similar (if not better) career.
 
Only 5 Players in Iowa basketball history have been Consensus 1st Team All-Americans:

Chuck Darling
Luka Garza
Dick Ives
Murray Wier
Herb Wilkinson

Notice any names missing from this list? Yeah, it's Roy and his boy.

Don't get me wrong, Roy was one of my favorite players to watch in the 80s but his number is not deserving of retirement.

No Big10 POY, No All-American, No National POY, just Freshman of the Year, Iowa's former leading all-time scorer, and a whole lot of the mystical mountain top dust.
 
Sorry.. this this is all so silly. Numbers being retired doesn't really mean anything... just some masculine my dick is bigger than yours stuff that really doesn't mean anything in the scope of reality. It's a nice gesture... but people expecting it or being mad someone else did and they didn't... its gross.

The fact that people get so upset about it says everything.
 
If you do a little googling, it appears that a lot of schools have number retirement criteria.

One that I found was Missouri, which recently changed them. They now have 10 possible criteria and you have to meet 4 out of those 10. The source I found listed 8 of the 10...I don't know what the other two are.

1. First-team all-conference
2. Major conference of the year award winner
3. All-American by at least one major outlet
4. National POY award winner (Outland Trophy, Mackey Award, etc.)
5. Olympic medalist while a student-athlete
6. Professional service of five-years or more
7. Induction into national college HOF
8. Pro HOF for respective sport.

In addition, Missouri athletes have to be 10 years removed from their last year playing that sport, and they have to already be in the MU athletics hall of fame.

Another thing I found when looking around is that most schools require you to have earned your undergraduate degree from that particular school. So no one-and-dones. I'm definitely okay with that.

UNC Pembroke has the following as one of their requirements:

"Nominee must have represented and continue to represent UNC Pembroke in the highest possible manner in all endeavors within sports as well as his/her personal life."

To me the bottom line is that I'm a complete idiot and it took me about 5 minutes to find a whole slew of schools that have really good, set criteria in place and they actually publicly post those requirements online. Gary Barta just tossing it out there with zero forethought has yet again put the UoI into the national news spotlight for all the wrong reasons. He can add this to his looooong list of embarrassments and every year he seems to just keep putting his ineptitude on display in more creative ways.

Not only has he fucked up and created a PR disaster (he's getting good at it by now), he's also fucked Garza over by turning what should have been a memorable accomplishment and honor into a 3 ring circus that's all about Barta now. How anyone can support Iowa athletics and this lame brain at the same time is beyond me.

As far as criteria, I don't necessarily think there should be a laundry list of things that you have to check a few off of. Even though my opinion + $2.69 will get you a gallon of gas, here's what I think good criteria would be.

1. 5 years removed from the sport
2. Undergraduate degree from Iowa
3. The good moral character clause similar to UNC-P's above
4. Consensus All-American status
5. National award winner

Luka will likely meet all of those criteria, Marble would only meet two. Again, this isn't a diss on Marble. I'm proud that he was a Hawkeye, but the fact remains that he would very likely not get his number retired at most schools, not just Iowa.
 
ISC said:
My two cents:

1. Does Garza deserve to have his jersey retired: 100% Yes.
2. Should they have done it on senior night: No way, wait a few years and have a "coming home" ceremony again
3. Should Marble's jersey be retired: 100% yes
4. Is this all Barta's fault? Yes and No. Marble could have had his jersey retired a long time ago by other ADs. But it is Barta's fault for announcing a jersey retirement before a player's college playing career is even over. To me, it's just amateurish, big time programs don't retire jerseys like this.
5. Was Marble's behavior later in life a part of a reason his jersey isn't retire? I absolutely believe this is the case why it hasn't been done. Which also is why retiring a jersey so early is not ideal (even though I have no reason to believe Garza will do anything wrong in the future)
6. Is Fran to blame for any of this? No, probably not. By all accounts he was good to the Marble family
7. Do I think the marble family has a legitimate right to be upset? Sure, why not. I would understand their reasonings.
Click to expand...
These are the 2 main things right? I agree with you're take on this in hindsight. In the moment I was caught up in the emotion and was all about it. He deserves it his family was there along with his teammates and the fact it's a no brainer of a thing to do I thought yes do it now.

BUT why not wait till some time has gone by and have fans brought back to really do it right? It wouldn't be any less of an honor for him. Looking back I'd have rather had a Luka Garza day with all the build up and a full CHA. Plus we'll have known how this season ends which could be crazy magical yet. So what I wish they'd have done is maybe let him know that that day would be coming but not do it right then.

I want to tread lightly with this part because I do get why Devyn would have been feeling what he was. And he's not wrong. Feelings are feelings we all have them and nothing will stoke them more then when thinking about a deceased parent. I just wish that he wouldn't have expressed his feelings how he did over twitter and went to Fran about it to begin with.

Obviously Fran isn't who he is directly mad at but he'd be who he could contact about it easy enough. I would think Fran would move mountains to do right by him and his family. And it pains me to say this but I really can't pile a lot of blame onto Barta with this. He's guilty of plenty of shit. But this is a somewhat complicated thing that I'm not quite ready to put all on him. This feels like something that with direct communication could be hashed out. Throwing this out on Twitter will inevitably have folks taking sides and making a huge deal over it with a resolution being tougher to come by..
 
HuckFinn said:
First, full disclosure, I have defended Gary Barta in the face of multiple attacks on his competency. So rather than a defense, I will pose some questions, with no apologies for any bias you identify.
Click to expand...
You ask excellent questions. As one of his vocal critics in this matter, here are my answers.
HuckFinn said:
1. What criteria are used by BT member Universities to determine Jersey # retirements, in any sport? How do we compare? They are a bit scattered, each school does something a little different.
2. Did Luka Garza deserve to have his # retired? If not, why not? Yes. He does.
3. Iowa has a long history of jersey #’s being retired. Why is Barta now being singled out, via a tweet from a former player, whose own father’s viability for the honor, was the topic of controversy, now being condemned via an Internet trial? Barta is singled out because of how he handled Roy Marble's honoring in 2015, and his comments about the retirment of numbers. He is being singled out for not, yet, fulfilling the promise of a wall of honor.
4. Should we now examine the legitimacy of the names of players displayed in Kinnick, visible to 10’s of thousands of fans 7 weeks of the year? At this time this is about basketball. However, after 2020, a look at football might be a good idea. Are there guys left out?
5. Did Roy Marble’s behavior later in life have a legitimate bearing on the previous athletic administration’s decision not to retire his jersey #?
If it did, was that a sound decision? It is very possible, however, we do not know at this time as the criteria has never been shared. And, if it was/is, that only rubs more salt in the wound as Luka's career has not even ended. Meg's honor came before she really left the area. If later in life is part of the conversation, that was waived for both of them.
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HuckFinn said:
6. Regardless of your view on Barta’s response, which was immediate and public, did his response, along with Fran’s, reduce the drama around young Marble’s Twitter feed? Was that a good PR move? Doubtful. The only thing that can really sooth hurt and anger is time.
7. Your call: What should Iowa do in the future to honor, or not honor, outstanding athletic achievement?
Click to expand...
HuckFinn said:
Be transparent and consistent. That's it, in a nutshell. Observe the "let your yes be yes and your no be no" command. Do not say, or imply, one thing and do another.
Click to expand...
 
You all are totally right. Hang Barta. In 2015 after the ceremony he should have said this when asked, "The reason his number or jersey have never been retired is because he was a drug addict during and after his time here and he likes to choke out women."
 
Hawkfnntn said:
Obviously Fran isn't who he is directly mad at but he'd be who he could contact about it easy enough. I would think Fran would move mountains to do right by him and his family. And it pains me to say this but I really can't pile a lot of blame onto Barta with this. He's guilty of plenty of shit. But this is a somewhat complicated thing that I'm not quite ready to put all on him. This feels like something that with direct communication could be hashed out. Throwing this out on Twitter will inevitably have folks taking sides and making a huge deal over it with a resolution being tougher to come by..
Click to expand...
I don't think Barta ever intended to piss anybody off, it's more a matter of incompetence rather than malice.

I mean, if the idea was brought to Barta by, let's say a donor or group of donors...how hard would it be to step back, take 10 minutes and ask yourself, "Well, 5 years ago we said we weren't going to retire Roy's number and I also said I don't really see us ever doing it...what would be the best way to go about this?"

Really the only answer to save face would have been to retire them both at the same time or do nothing at all. If you retire Marble now, it's just going to look like a token gesture. If you don't retire Marble and come out with new criteria to meet (that would obviously have to be written to fit Garza), you look like a total asshole.

Barta has painted himself into a corner yet again and left embarrassment as the only option for the Hawks. Just a total buffoon.

For the record, I don't think Marble's should be retired. No AA, no All Big Ten, etc. Yes he played at the same time as Glen Rice, but them's the breaks.
 
Fryowa said:
I don't think Barta ever intended to piss anybody off, it's more a matter of incompetence rather than malice.

I mean, if the idea was brought to Barta by, let's say a donor or group of donors...how hard would it be to step back, take 10 minutes and ask yourself, "Well, 5 years ago we said we weren't going to retire Roy's number and I also said I don't really see us ever doing it...what would be the best way to go about this?"

Really the only answer to save face would have been to retire them both at the same time or do nothing at all. If you retire Marble now, it's just going to look like a token gesture. If you don't retire Marble and come out with new criteria to meet (that would obviously have to be written to fit Garza), you look like a total asshole.

Barta has painted himself into a corner yet again and left embarrassment as the only option for the Hawks. Just a total buffoon.

For the record, I don't think Marble's should be retired. No AA, no All Big Ten, etc. Yes he played at the same time as Glen Rice, but them's the breaks.
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The thought of retiring them both at the same time had also crossed my mind, and would have been a nice gesture.

Water under the bridge now and yes another spectacular gaff by Barta. The guy must have a lot of dirt on the higher ups to still be around.
 
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