Mandel calls KF One of Five Worst

Section136 said:
Beckman from Illinois, Kill at Minnesota, Dukes coach, Kentcukys coach, Boston Colleges coach.

I would bet those 5 guys have fewer wins the past 3 seasons than Ferentz and since that is the only criteria you want to use to judge KF, then those 5 and I would guess quite a few others are worse at this current time and still have D1 jobs.
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Is GK at Minny 2-1 against kirk or 1-1?
 


tubahawk said:
QB development is not a strength of this program. With the exception of Stanzi, KOK did not do well with QB development. During KF's tenure the top three QB ratings were;

Kyle McCann in 2001 (Rating of 148.5)
Brand Banks in 2002 (Rating of 157.1)
Ricky Stanzi in 2010 (Rating of 157.6)

McCann spent two years under Chuck Long as QB coach before KOK took over, Banks spent two years under someone else before transferring to Iowa.

QB Rating by year;

2004 - 134.7 (Tate)
2005 - 146.4 (Tate)
2006 - 131.0 (Tate)
2007 - 116.9 (Christensen)
2008 - 117.2 (Christensen 134.8 (Stanzi)
2009 - 131.6 (Stanzi)
2010 - 157.6 (Stanzi)
2011 - 138.4 (JVB)
2012 - 107.7 (JVB)

Only Stanzi finished with the highest QB rating in his final year.
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Tate had an abdominal injury in 2006 so there goes that one.

JC did finish with a higher rating in 2008 than he did in 2007.

JVB was in a brand new system his senior year, you cant pin that one on KOK's ability to develop a QB.

There is more to QB play than just the numbers.
 






hawkeyebob62 said:
<<(B)ut I don't know who that is.>>

Seriously?!
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I just looked him up. I geuss I could have done that and acted like I knew who he was but seems as though he wasnt too important. Yeah that was before I had season tickets or was born. My dad must have left those stories out at bedtime.
 




Section136 said:
And if thats the way it works, KF is a better coach than Joe Pa was.
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I wish Kirk would just wonder around and the other coaches didnt have to listen to him. How many years that KF played PSU do you think that Joe pa had anthing to do other than be a mascot? Id suppose there are a lot of PSU that wonder why they had soo much trouble with Iowa.
 




Sums said:
Those who think KF is one of the bottom 5 coaches in the country are you then saying that having Tulane's Coach or Akron's coach or even Wake Forests coach would be an improvement over KF? I Wouldn't take any of those coaches.
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I wouldn't either.

But I do think those guys could come up with more effective schemes and playcalling for scoring points and be more effective in late game management.

I don't think most of them would be ok with what Greg Davis concocted last year, and I don't think any other coach would have stuck with Vandenburg for every snap.

KF could easily just hide his weaknesses if he would hire a good offensive coordinator to run THEIR offense. The best business strategy is always to hire people that are good at what you are bad at.

The problem is I don't think KF thinks hes bad at anything.
 


Section136 said:
How dont Iowa's QBs improve?

SR Stanzi was better than JR Stanzi.

JR Tate was better than SO Tate. Senior year he was injured.

SR Banks was better than JR Banks.

JC was awful in 2007 and he wasnt that good in 2006 filling in for Tate.

Chandler only played in blowouts in 2002 and was decent in 2003. Cant really lean one way or the other on him because of the situations he played in during the 2002 season.
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Statistically they may improve but they are to scared to take risks.

Tate came in being a risk taker, they were never really able to coach that out of him and it just ended up in friction.

JC may or may not have been better in 06, in 07 the talent wasn't there but he was scared to death to throw an INT.

Stanzi came in as a risk taker, understandably they tried to get him to quit throwing INTs but he looked scared as a senior as well where that was not the case before. As a soph against pitt he tried to hurry the team up down the field at the end of the half and got benched for completing passes. As a senior against Wisconsin he looked totally confused at the end of the game.

No one got worse quite like JVB. Coaching certainly played a part. Remember him on the road at OSU. Not giving a $h!+ and throwing missiles like he thought he was Brett Favre. Yeah he threw INTs but he also left us in a position to win at thend. Then two years later he was seemingly incapable of even making a decision.


Ask yourself this. Who would you want to put in to win a game at the end.
Junior Stanzi or Senior?
Sophmore Tate or Senior?
Soph/Junior JVB or Senior?

Its definitely my opinion that Iowas QBs are too afraid to make mistakes.
 
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RocknRollface said:
Statistically they may improve but they are to scared to take risks.

Tate came in being a risk taker, they were never really able to coach that out of him and it just ended up in friction.

JC may or may not have been better in 06, in 07 the talent wasn't there but he was scared to death to throw an INT.

Stanzi came in as a risk taker, understandably they tried to get him to quit throwing INTs but he looked scared as a senior as well where that was not the case before. As a soph against pitt he tried to hurry the team up down the field at the end of the half and got benched for completing passes. As a senior against Wisconsin he looked totally confused at the end of the game.

No one got worse quite like JVB. Coaching certainly played a part. Remember him on the road at OSU. Not giving a $h!+ and throwing missiles like he thought he was Brett Favre. Yeah he threw INTs but he also left us in a position to win at thend. Then two years later he was seemingly incapable of even making a decision.


Ask yourself this. Who would you want to put in to win a game at the end.
Junior Stanzi or Senior?
Sophmore Tate or Senior?
Soph/Junior JVB or Senior?

Its my definitely my opinion that Iowas QBs are too afraid to make mistakes.
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So let me get this right. A QB who has better numbers than the year before, makes less mistakes than the year before and throws less pick sixes than the year before is actually regressing?

That makes sense.

And how in the he'll can you want sophomore JVB in this scenario? He got mop up duty in 2010 and that's it.
 


RocknRollface said:
Statistically they may improve but they are to scared to take risks.

Tate came in being a risk taker, they were never really able to coach that out of him and it just ended up in friction.

JC may or may not have been better in 06, in 07 the talent wasn't there but he was scared to death to throw an INT.

Stanzi came in as a risk taker, understandably they tried to get him to quit throwing INTs but he looked scared as a senior as well where that was not the case before. As a soph against pitt he tried to hurry the team up down the field at the end of the half and got benched for completing passes. As a senior against Wisconsin he looked totally confused at the end of the game.

No one got worse quite like JVB. Coaching certainly played a part. Remember him on the road at OSU. Not giving a $h!+ and throwing missiles like he thought he was Brett Favre. Yeah he threw INTs but he also left us in a position to win at thend. Then two years later he was seemingly incapable of even making a decision.


Ask yourself this. Who would you want to put in to win a game at the end.
Junior Stanzi or Senior?
Sophmore Tate or Senior?
Soph/Junior JVB or Senior?

Its definitely my opinion that Iowas QBs are too afraid to make mistakes.
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Couldn't agree more/ Especially the last portion.
 


RocknRollface said:
Statistically they may improve but they are to scared to take risks.

Tate came in being a risk taker, they were never really able to coach that out of him and it just ended up in friction.

JC may or may not have been better in 06, in 07 the talent wasn't there but he was scared to death to throw an INT.

Stanzi came in as a risk taker, understandably they tried to get him to quit throwing INTs but he looked scared as a senior as well where that was not the case before. As a soph against pitt he tried to hurry the team up down the field at the end of the half and got benched for completing passes. As a senior against Wisconsin he looked totally confused at the end of the game.

No one got worse quite like JVB. Coaching certainly played a part. Remember him on the road at OSU. Not giving a $h!+ and throwing missiles like he thought he was Brett Favre. Yeah he threw INTs but he also left us in a position to win at thend. Then two years later he was seemingly incapable of even making a decision.


Ask yourself this. Who would you want to put in to win a game at the end.
Junior Stanzi or Senior?
Sophmore Tate or Senior?
Soph/Junior JVB or Senior?

Its definitely my opinion that Iowas QBs are too afraid to make mistakes.
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This is what I think by the end of their careers they played scared conservative KF ball. Give me Ricky Stanzi as a Jr. anyday. Yeah he threw picks but he made the KF offense exciting downfield. Then as a Sr. he looked like he was shell shocked and nervous. Also when Stanzi was younger he had many nice runs and later on he would always throw the ball without a thought of taking off. Easy to go after a QB who wont run.
 


RocknRollface said:
I wouldn't either.

But I do think those guys could come up with more effective schemes and playcalling for scoring points and be more effective in late game management.

I don't think most of them would be ok with what Greg Davis concocted last year, and I don't think any other coach would have stuck with Vandenburg for every snap.

KF could easily just hide his weaknesses if he would hire a good offensive coordinator to run THEIR offense. The best business strategy is always to hire people that are good at what you are bad at.

The problem is I don't think KF thinks hes bad at anything.[/QUOTE]
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Excellent post...one that captures Ferentz as well an anything.

So the question is (with reference to the last two paragraphs)... is it ignorance, stubbornness/ego, or incompetence that keeps KFz from doing so?

This is like a first year case study in business school. So simple...it's painful.
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Id like to say again...If you dont think KF is one of the 5 worst thats fine he may not be. I do however think he is(I like to argue that point and Im here to go back and forth about Iowa football and other sports)and thats my opinion. I do think even as a kf fan or a person who thinks he can turn things around, I think that it should be understandable why he is listed as one of the worst 5.

1. The writer knew that Iowa fans would be on the fence and get arise out of them.

2. Everyone other than Iowa fans just sees wins and who Iowa has lost to(They also see KF salary which I agree doesnt really belong in this topic but was used to further more discussion on the topic). See as Iowa fans we see the things kf has done in the past and the thing he is doing well at now(recruiting). We all weigh said things differently.

3. Nobody is going to pick on a smaller D1 program as there is no point because those coaches are not tested like a B1G, SEC, B12, or any team that plays the a lot of talented programs. Also like stated before there fan bases are smaller and would not generate as much on the topic. They dont have the programs to bring in more talent.

4. If you lose to a very poor program the media will dwell on it. Iowa has had many of these bad losses and it sticks out.

5. There is no reason why Iowa should have had 4 wins last year period. If they had won 6 or 7 then this wouldnt be an issue. Iowa lost to many teams last year that they had more talent than and that is what land a coach on a list like this.

6. The fact that Iowa can have soo many NFL players yet lose so many games is not lost on the media and fans of other schools. This is the most telling thing about KF. He cant coach on saturdays. He just doesnt have it. There is no reasons that much talent cant win games. No one can give me a reason why Iowa has that much talent but can lose to so many awful teams without KF being the reason why. The media and the college football world doesnt care about anything other than wins, and KF has no reason to be losing soo much. He has no reason why he can lose to the teams he does. If Kirk loses to teams that have better talent and better programs than thats fine, but he is losing to poor talent and poor programs on a regular basis.
 


Section136 said:
So let me get this right. A QB who has better numbers than the year before, makes less mistakes than the year before and throws less pick sixes than the year before is actually regressing?

That makes sense.

And how in the he'll can you want sophomore JVB in this scenario? He got mop up duty in 2010 and that's it.
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You forgot one part. Makes far less winning plays in the 4th quarter.

Now given those options which one do you take?\

And I clearly put "/Junior" in there so why bother to act like I didn't?
 
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theboat said:
"Take away that one 11-2 season and the Hawkeyes are 47-41 since 2005"

Take away last year and they are 54-35. He is being very selective in his opinions.

"(Bobby Petrino) has produced four top-12 teams" gets him on the top list, Ferentz 4 top ten teams gets no mention. I am as apathetic about Ferentz as anyone, but that list is just dumb.
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This post makes too much sense. You can't post here anymore.
Pick up your things on the way out.
 


OUTofTOWNHAWK said:
This is what I think by the end of their careers they played scared conservative KF ball. Give me Ricky Stanzi as a Jr. anyday. Yeah he threw picks but he made the KF offense exciting downfield. Then as a Sr. he looked like he was shell shocked and nervous. Also when Stanzi was younger he had many nice runs and later on he would always throw the ball without a thought of taking off. Easy to go after a QB who wont run.
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Interesting choice with your example. The defense is who won the games when Ricky was tossing pick 6's like it was his j.o.b. but it was the defense that was losing the games when he was the senior (and by your logic-uber conservative). I'm not sure this helps your arguments.
 


Section136 said:
Tate had an abdominal injury in 2006 so there goes that one.

JC did finish with a higher rating in 2008 than he did in 2007.

JVB was in a brand new system his senior year, you cant pin that one on KOK's ability to develop a QB.

There is more to QB play than just the numbers.
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One of my biggest struggles is how this team uses adversity (i.e. injuries) as an excuse for poor outcomes and how complacent fans are with that excuse. It is tough to overcome injuries especially in key positions. I get that it can be a set-back. But almost every team has to overcome a significant injury (or two) at some point during the season.

If the only way this team will win is if every player remains perfectly healthy for the whole season, then we are likely going to be disappointed every season. I get that Tate played hurt his senior year. But he still regressed. That we didn't have someone else that could step up and play better than an injured Tate speaks to the poor development of QBs (and appears to be a trend as we didn't have a QB able to step up and challenge a horrific JVB last season).
 


OUTofTOWNHAWK said:
How many NFL players do those schools produce? What are their records? What do those schools have for football programs? Take everything those coaches have and then see what they have for wins then we could decide whether they are better or worse coaches. However just picking school names because their not know for football and saying ohhhh they must have a crappy coach is not logic, its not any kind of example.

Does Northwestern, Central Michigan, Western Michigan, Minnesota, Indiana, Illinois, Purdue and ISU have better players, football programs, more to offer recruits, any kind of advantage at all over Iowa? Please give me a reason why KF should not be put on this list when he loses to these teams routinely? Iowa has so much more than these schools but when it comes to gameday KF cant get things handled. Its like some of you forget all this once the season ends and your Hawkeye fandom blocks this stuff from your heads.


If you want to go apples to apples let talk about some teams Iowa plays. Since people think they can just throw out a school across the country that doesnt play any of the same teams as Iowa and say well Iowa had a better record than dis team.
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I didn't take teams not known for football I took coaches with losing records. In your hatred for KF you mention all the advantages Iowa has in football over other teams. You fail to mention that a lot of those advantages are because of KF he's the one that DEVELOPS players into NFL talent. He's the one helping get the facilities upgraded and he's the coach that has won enough to get people in the seats. I am not blind to the fact that he needs to win this year but to ignore what he has done and call him one of the bottom 5 coaches is insane I wouldn't call KF in the top half of coaches right not but he is not bottom 5.


And we are talking about the worse coaches in the NCAA not teams that play the same teams as Iowa so the comparison works as there are worse coaches out there.
 


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