Loved the autopsy article on the front page

[WindsorHawk]

Bob Knight, Bo Ryan, Tom Izzo all have one thing in common that Fran doesn't have. The first 3 won't play guys that keep making the same mental mistakes, over and over again. They won't play guys that can't or don't want to run the offense/defense they are asked to do. They'll sit you on the bench as long as it takes to get it through your head. You'll either get with the program or transfer out.

I agree that all 3 of these guys would do this. But I don't know if they would have done it when they were trying to kick start their programs. And it's even harder when it's guys that committed when no one else would and transitioned the program from where it was to where it is now.

If it were me I would have given this year's seniors a bit more latitude because of what they did for the program overall. Fran's approach may change a bit moving forward. We'll see. Of course a large percentage of the people on here will disagree no matter what he does...because we all have differing opinions on what the "right" decision is.

 

[SpiderRico]

I don't know anything about the relationship of Fran and his players, but I do know that in the 2013-2014 season and the 2015-2016 season we went a combined 4-14 to finish those seasons combined. Both seasons were near mirror images of each other....started out red hot in the first half of the season, got to Top 10 in the country, then limped down the home stretch, losing in the 1st round of the BTT to a double digit seed that we had beaten earlier in the year by double digits. When it happens once, you can chalk it up to dead legs, player in-fighting/chemistry issues, bad end-of-game coaching, etc. But when it happens twice in 3 seasons, then you start to worry.

I do know that in the earlier of the 2 seasons, there was multiple iterations of "red-faced Fran", but in the later season there was virtually none of that. So I don't think it has to do with Fran and his game day demeanor because there's been a definite noticeable change there.

But the one thing I think both of those seasons had in common was a lack of a true, on-the-court leader. In both of those season, the "leader" was a quiet, passive, seemingly at times disinterested player. There was no one to step in and take up that void....either because of deference (certainly White deferred to Marble in the earlier season) or because no one else had the necessary leadership qualities to take charge (certainly none of the other seniors seemed to want to or were capable of taking charge in the later season). The in-between year saw a player in Aaron White take the bull by the horns when we were 6-6 in the conference and we rode him to 6 straight wins to end the season. I think if we had a guy like White on the team this year, things may have played out differently.

 

[PCHawk]

I don't know anything about the relationship of Fran and his players, but I do know that in the 2013-2014 season and the 2015-2016 season we went a combined 4-14 to finish those seasons combined. Both seasons were near mirror images of each other....started out red hot in the first half of the season, got to Top 10 in the country, then limped down the home stretch, losing in the 1st round of the BTT to a double digit seed that we had beaten earlier in the year by double digits. When it happens once, you can chalk it up to dead legs, player in-fighting/chemistry issues, bad end-of-game coaching, etc. But when it happens twice in 3 seasons, then you start to worry.

I do know that in the earlier of the 2 seasons, there was multiple iterations of "red-faced Fran", but in the later season there was virtually none of that. So I don't think it has to do with Fran and his game day demeanor because there's been a definite noticeable change there.

But the one thing I think both of those seasons had in common was a lack of a true, on-the-court leader. In both of those season, the "leader" was a quiet, passive, seemingly at times disinterested player. There was no one to step in and take up that void....either because of deference (certainly White deferred to Marble in the earlier season) or because no one else had the necessary leadership qualities to take charge (certainly none of the other seniors seemed to want to or were capable of taking charge in the later season). The in-between year saw a player in Aaron White take the bull by the horns when we were 6-6 in the conference and we rode him to 6 straight wins to end the season. I think if we had a guy like White on the team this year, things may have played out differently.

If we started strong White's senior year, I wonder if he would have still lead the team to a strong finish. He had enough of losing and decided he wasnt going to lose anymore. If we were top 10 that year, would he have still finished with that attitude?

Most top 10 teams have top 10 talent. They can afford to get a little full of themselves and maybe lose some effort. We were good because of our effort. Once we lost a bit of that, we became an average team. It's not a coaching issue. If it was, it would happen every year. Not just the 2 years we were ranked high.

 

[lightning1]

I completely agree with your post. Fran was in a tough situation tho with the way the roster was this year.

It's not about this year vs next year. or what roster situation you have (unless you have so many injuries that you can't field 5 schollie players). It's about consistency in your expectations and program goals. That's something that can't be compromised. Or you risk losing your young players. If they feel like they watch you (coach) let players get away with stuff, they'll expect the same and if they feel like they aren't being treated the same, they'll leave. Right or wrong.

 

[lightning1]

I agree that all 3 of these guys would do this. But I don't know if they would have done it when they were trying to kick start their programs. And it's even harder when it's guys that committed when no one else would and transitioned the program from where it was to where it is now.

If it were me I would have given this year's seniors a bit more latitude because of what they did for the program overall. Fran's approach may change a bit moving forward. We'll see. Of course a large percentage of the people on here will disagree no matter what he does...because we all have differing opinions on what the "right" decision is.

Fran should absolutely give SRs more latitude than underclassmen. No doubt. But when the wheels come off and arse chewing does no good....you don't owe them anything else. Sit them and see how they respond. You can see what effect "doing nothing" got him. The scenario I just laid out goes by the assumption that Fran ISN'T a horrible coach, incapable of making adjustments, etc. As long as he's been coaching, I'd say that's not likely but who knows?

 

[HaydenHawk56]

Suggesting that Fran is any different than 95% of coaches out there is just dumb. He has some antics his first few years here, but the last 2 year he has practically been a saint on the sidelines, rarely blowing up at all. He does get on his players at times, but what coach doesn't? Anyone ever watch Izzo on the sidelines, he is constantly yelling at players, way more than Fran ever does.

Docherman and Moorhouse brought this up in a podcast. They have been to tons and tons of practice and they have never seen Fran yell and scream at the guys. I think that is why players are ok with Fran getting on them during games, because it is a game. He isn't doing this to them all the time, he is a teacher in practice and during the game he is a competitor. If you aren't doing your job, you will hear about it.

This gets me to my last point, and it is that David kind of turned this into a hack piece. It is like all journalist come a running to defend their own if a coach slights one of "them" in a press conference. It is comical to me how they feel that coaches should take all of their stupid f@cking questions super serious. Most coaches do a good job dealing with the idiots in the press.....I give them a pass if they sometimes get snarky with them.

Of course.....people are going to be on their best behavior when watched.

 

[HaydenHawk56]

"Hello, let me introduce myself, I'm L field........." ????

Huh?

 

[HaydenHawk56]

if I had quit every time a coach swore at me or called me a "colorful" name I wouldn't have lasted one practice. Trust me, your team mates are WAY worse. Kids these days need to grow a pair

Watch the Real Sports Episode on Coaching Abuse. It goes much deeper than swearing.

 

[skinnykilmer17]

Didn't really have much impact on the game though, did it?

What might have had more impact could have been using a timeout to squelch multiple Nova runs (instead of Fran taking his first with 40 seconds left in the first half), or using one to get our leading scorer in the game instead of letting him sit at the scorer's table for almost 3 minutes of game action while Nova went on another big run, or reinserting his best perimeter defender instead of choosing to let him sit the final 17+ minutes of the first half while we played little to zero defense on the PERIMETER as Nova built a 25 pt. lead. And to this final point, Fran said, "I really struggled with that decision."

Really Fran? Classic.

Fran is about as likely to improve his in-game coaching aptitude as North Carolina is likely to get slapped with an NCAA penalty.

Give Fran credit for what he has done so far, but IMO he will not get us to the next level unless he gets superior talent. Much more than we have had in the past 5 years. His coaching will cost us games.

PC is about to jump in and defend his game coaching. Wait for it. 3-2-1...

 

[lightning1]

What might have had more impact could have been using a timeout to squelch multiple Nova runs (instead of Fran taking his first with 40 seconds left), or using one to get our leading scorer in the game instead of letting him sit at the scorer's table for almost 3 minutes of game action while Nova went on another big run, or reinserting his best perimeter defender instead of choosing to let him sit the final 17+ minutes of the first half while we played little to zero defense on the PERIMETER as Nova built a 25 pt. lead. And to this final point, Fran said, "I really struggled with that decision."

Really Fran? Classic.

Fran is about as likely to improve his in-game coaching aptitude as North Carolina is likely to get slapped with an NCAA penalty.

Give Fran credit for what he has done so far, but IMO he will not get us to the next level unless he gets superior talent. Much more than we have had in the past 5 years. His coaching will cost us games.

PC is about to jump in and defend his game coaching. Wait for it. 3-2-1...

I am on record with my frustrations about Fran's use of time outs and in game adjustments. I believe that is one of his major failings. As is his ability to properly motivate his players. I think he would be best served in finding assistant coaches that are good at both. I'm not sure he would be willing to give up that kind of control. A lot of coaches aren't.

 

[HawkGold]

I think some of the issue centers around the definition of abuse. To some it's being mean. To the other extreme it's cruel.

Abusers are very often really good at selecting when they do it. So a happy acting "family" may or may not truly be happy. Abusers are usually worse behind closed doors. I"m not saying Fran is an abuser.

I've mostly been happy with Fran's changes. Don't know why he changed, but he has. I speculate it is about wanting to coach his sons.

Sometimes his body language shows someone with deep anger issues, but again not nearly so much now.

I think it's fair game to discuss it. Some will jump all over me about this, but at times it does exceed what other B1G coaches do in body language. You would think that if it was a problem it would be known....but then again look at what has happened at other institutions. Izzo might get really bad body language if he had to start from the ground up like Fran did.

I do get tired of people blaming the "softness) on the current generation. This is the generation that has fought and died the most in the past 10 years of war. It's an all volunteer military.

I would bet that most of us would have trouble performing on the job with someone swearing at us. Very few bosses can earn that kind of respect to use that at work. Like it or not, several of the Iowa players do/did look tired of it by the end.

 

[HaydenHawk56]

Imagine if this happened daily in your training (might seem funny until you get choked, hit or, kicked):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMVmhI1SUq0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fm3YFFjj5y8

and for good measure

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Em4-DyiAB2A


Yep.....and Knight won a National Title. But, he also lost his job at the end of the day at Indiana to. You can make your point without being a bully.

I liked this scene and I thought this guy was a tough coach from what I remember watching this movie, but got his point across here (at least in this scene) without f this and f that and I will do this to you and I will do that to you......Nothing wrong with being tough....but it just how you come across and how you can make adjustments to continue effectiveness.

You can be tough without diminishing the player as a person and coming across as a blowhard bully.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bb-hWG3cHMQ

 

[skinnykilmer17]

I am on record with my frustrations about Fran's use of time outs and in game adjustments. I believe that is one of his major failings. As is his ability to properly motivate his players. I think he would be best served in finding assistant coaches that are good at both. I'm not sure he would be willing to give up that kind of control. A lot of coaches aren't.

Yes, I have read your posts. I agree.

I wasn't disagreeing with you. I was only using your quote. Sloppily used your quote.

He will never give up control like that. Nor should he. That's one reason he gets paid the big bucks.He just isn't very good at it as his record in close games proves it.

He is either seen screaming at his players or like a statue with his arms folded seemingly paralyzed to do anything. Seems like no middle ground with him.

 

[PCHawk]

What might have had more impact could have been using a timeout to squelch multiple Nova runs (instead of Fran taking his first with 40 seconds left in the first half), or using one to get our leading scorer in the game instead of letting him sit at the scorer's table for almost 3 minutes of game action while Nova went on another big run, or reinserting his best perimeter defender instead of choosing to let him sit the final 17+ minutes of the first half while we played little to zero defense on the PERIMETER as Nova built a 25 pt. lead. And to this final point, Fran said, "I really struggled with that decision."

Really Fran? Classic.

Fran is about as likely to improve his in-game coaching aptitude as North Carolina is likely to get slapped with an NCAA penalty.

Give Fran credit for what he has done so far, but IMO he will not get us to the next level unless he gets superior talent. Much more than we have had in the past 5 years. His coaching will cost us games.

PC is about to jump in and defend his game coaching. Wait for it. 3-2-1...

So what's wrong with him struggling with that decision? You obviously disagree with what he did. Isn't it better that he was at least thinking about doing what you thought he should?

And of course he won't get us to the next level without superior talent. The next level is only teams with superior talent and Wisconsin.

 

[PCHawk]

Yes, I have read your posts. I agree.

I wasn't disagreeing with you. I was only using your quote. Sloppily used your quote.

He will never give up control like that. Nor should he. That's one reason he gets paid the big bucks.He just isn't very good at it as his record in close games proves it.

He is either seen screaming at his players or like a statue with his arms folded seemingly paralyzed to do anything. Seems like no middle ground with him.

Coaches don't win close games. Players do. Ask any coach and they will tell you the same thing. People hang onto the timeout thing like it's some magic formula for winning. If Bronson Koenig was on this team, everyone would think Fran is a great close game coach since that guy makes everything he throws up at the end of games. I would think those people were just as dumb as the people who think Fran is a bad close game coach because instead of guys like Koenig, we have....guys that aren't like Koenig.

 

[skinnykilmer17]

So what's wrong with him struggling with that decision? You obviously disagree with what he did. Isn't it better that he was at least thinking about doing what you thought he should?

And of course he won't get us to the next level without superior talent. The next level is only teams with superior talent and Wisconsin.

So let's take him at face value. He must have been struggling when we got down by 15. But no AC. Struggling when down by 20. But no AC. Thank Heavens when we got down by 25 the 1st half ended so he didn't have to struggle with that decision anymore. Ridiculous.

Serious question. Have you ever seen a team get overwhelmed like that WITHOUT utilizing a timeout to stop multiple runs in 19:20 minutes of basketball? Did you see Fran do anything besides stand on the sidelines with his arms folded? It's almost like he conceded the game before the tip-off.

And yes, I feel Fran needs superior talent, like we haven't seen in decades, to take us to the next level. Whatever that means. A B1G championship and Final Four? An Elite Eight? Maybe even a Sweet 16? He has never done that. How about even a winning record in close games?

To compensate for his deficiencies.

Do you see THAT much talent on the 2016-17 roster? He recruited some nice athletes this past year. We will see what Moss and Hutton can bring. And Cook as well from this year's class. But we are taking a step back in athleticism with Bohannon and Pemsl. But they may turn out to be decent college role players.

One thing is for sure, even if he is able to land a surprise JUCO PG he is going to have to go against his reluctance to call timeouts, work hard to put his team in the best possible situations, and really manage a game with that much inexperience on next year's squad. Especially at PG. Can he do it?

 

[lightning1]

Coaches don't win close games. Players do. Ask any coach and they will tell you the same thing. People hang onto the timeout thing like it's some magic formula for winning. If Bronson Koenig was on this team, everyone would think Fran is a great close game coach since that guy makes everything he throws up at the end of games. I would think those people were just as dumb as the people who think Fran is a bad close game coach because instead of guys like Koenig, we have....guys that aren't like Koenig.

In game adjustments can be made by good coaches. Those adjustments can make all of the difference leading up to whether a game is close or not. But you make a valid point that can be a large part of the problem.

 

[PCHawk]

In game adjustments can be made by good coaches. Those adjustments can make all of the difference leading up to whether a game is close or not. But you make a valid point that can be a large part of the problem.

Yes adjustments can be made during games. But the other D1 coach is making adjustments too. An Iowa roster will probably never be good enough to just blow every team out since almost no roster on any team ever is good enough to blow all opponents out. It sounds like you're saying if Fran was a decent coach we could destroy every team on the schedule.

 

[PCHawk]

So let's take him at face value. He must have been struggling when we got down by 15. But no AC. Struggling when down by 20. But no AC. Thank Heavens when we got down by 25 the 1st half ended so he didn't have to struggle with that decision anymore. Ridiculous.

Serious question. Have you ever seen a team get overwhelmed like that WITHOUT utilizing a timeout to stop multiple runs in 19:20 minutes of basketball? Did you see Fran do anything besides stand on the sidelines with his arms folded? It's almost like he conceded the game before the tip-off.

And yes, I feel Fran needs superior talent, like we haven't seen in decades, to take us to the next level. Whatever that means. A B1G championship and Final Four? An Elite Eight? Maybe even a Sweet 16? He has never done that. How about even a winning record in close games?

To compensate for his deficiencies.

Do you see THAT much talent on the 2016-17 roster? He recruited some nice athletes this past year. We will see what Moss and Hutton can bring. And Cook as well from this year's class. But we are taking a step back in athleticism with Bohannon and Pemsl. But they may turn out to be decent college role players.

One thing is for sure, even if he is able to land a surprise JUCO PG he is going to have to go against his reluctance to call timeouts, work hard to put his team in the best possible situations, and really manage a game with that much inexperience on next year's squad. Especially at PG. Can he do it?

He said he would have put him in but Baer was playing really well so he thought he could get to halftime so AC could actually play his game in the 2nd half instead of worrying about fouls. Using hindsight to see we ended up down 25, it was the wrong decision. But down 15 with 6 minutes left or whatever, how is bringing a guy in who's main contribution is tough defense going to help when he can't play tough defense because of fouls?

 

[PCHawk]

So let's take him at face value. He must have been struggling when we got down by 15. But no AC. Struggling when down by 20. But no AC. Thank Heavens when we got down by 25 the 1st half ended so he didn't have to struggle with that decision anymore. Ridiculous.

Serious question. Have you ever seen a team get overwhelmed like that WITHOUT utilizing a timeout to stop multiple runs in 19:20 minutes of basketball? Did you see Fran do anything besides stand on the sidelines with his arms folded? It's almost like he conceded the game before the tip-off.

And yes, I feel Fran needs superior talent, like we haven't seen in decades, to take us to the next level. Whatever that means. A B1G championship and Final Four? An Elite Eight? Maybe even a Sweet 16? He has never done that. How about even a winning record in close games?

To compensate for his deficiencies.

Do you see THAT much talent on the 2016-17 roster? He recruited some nice athletes this past year. We will see what Moss and Hutton can bring. And Cook as well from this year's class. But we are taking a step back in athleticism with Bohannon and Pemsl. But they may turn out to be decent college role players.

One thing is for sure, even if he is able to land a surprise JUCO PG he is going to have to go against his reluctance to call timeouts, work hard to put his team in the best possible situations, and really manage a game with that much inexperience on next year's squad. Especially at PG. Can he do it?

Can you please tell me what a coach can do to win a close game when all your starters just give the other team the ball in the last 2 minutes of games and can't make a single shot? Do you think he should play the freshmen with no experience? Maybe but that would be tough for any coach to do. Oh yea, you think he should call a timeout. If Iowa was .500 in close games, Fran wouldhave 2 top 10 finishes and be talked about as the best iowa coach ever. Instead, he's terrible because he doesn't use a timeout at the end of games? Just horrible logic.