Jon doesn't follow recruiting nearly as close as many fans do. He said something along the lines that fans get way too excited about players who probably won't see the field for a few years. Plus even the ones that do see the field sooner than later end up having extreme expectations put on them, Garmon for example.
Lose Hill and pick up????
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Jon doesn't follow recruiting nearly as close as many fans do. He said something along the lines that fans get way too excited about players who probably won't see the field for a few years. Plus even the ones that do see the field sooner than later end up having extreme expectations put on them, Garmon for example.
you mad because I am not bashing KF for losing Hill
and I am saying Hill is not that big a loss
like so many are claiming,, what I find really funny, many tell me stars don't mean much and yet now people say Iowa lost its 2 players in this class based solely on ther having 4*'s.
which bring this question into play.
which is it, STARS MATTER when it is a decommit, but not a current player?
superfan12
Well-Known Member
Red, the issue with this is that if a current player who didn't show as much on the field people aren't as mad when they leave or don't play because they are already a disappointment. The issue when a 3* or 4* decommits the fans are focusing on the hype rather than the disappointment of the player on the field.
No keep in mind, I am not saying that anyone is a disappointment, just saying like when we discussed expectations getting exaggrated for players based on said star rating prior to them actually playing.
Motigerhawk
Well-Known Member
But KF can make a darn good living off 2* players
He did make a darn good living off those 2* players. But now the 2* talent just isn't the same that it used to be.
Bad recruiting in '08 and '09 with primarly 2* players and the top ones either not panning out or leaving has left this time in bad shape.
If Ferentz wants to turn this around, he needs to keep up the better recruiting that he did the past two years, which so far this '13 recruiting class won't be a top 25 class but it will still be a decent class with minimal 2* players.
Motigerhawk
Well-Known Member
Yeah. Myt statement could have been taken 2 ways. I was referring to the fact that KF makes $3.8 million recruiting a bunch of 2* players. That type of darn good living. 
I see that you refuse to admit he has improved recruiting."
2010 Iowa landed 4 4* and just 5 2*'s with as kicker be one of those 2* player, in Meyer
the rest of the class was finished with 3* players
2011 was a top 30 class
with 6 4* players
just 5 2* players one of which is a kicker
the rest are 3* players
2012 was a top 40 class
with 5 4* players
just 5 2* players again 1 was a kicker
the resy were 3* players
this after going from 1999 to 2009 with getting 12-14 2* players in every class with 2005 being the only exception as they had just 4 2* recruit in that top 10 class, Doering a 5* didn't perform up to expectations, with 4* Bailey and Bain leaving early, Richardson and Moeaki suffered multiple injuries but still made it to the NFL there are risks to gettimng any kid, and that class endured a 7-5 season a 6-7 season and a 6-6 season their 1st 3 years
just because you have a very good recruiting class does not mean instant success, it has to have multiple years of recruiting success to maintain a high level of success. this is why the poor recruiting classes of 2008 and 2009 hurt so much. now that the coaches are improving the quality of recruits they will not be done for very long and you will see the improved recruiting start to show up this fall.
I just posted the starters and possible backups with their rankings in another thread, in it you will see the majority of the 4*'s either starting or in the 2 deeps for this fall, it will be interesting to see who come out of Spring ball in the 2 deeps
2010 Iowa landed 4 4* and just 5 2*'s with as kicker be one of those 2* player, in Meyer
the rest of the class was finished with 3* players
2011 was a top 30 class
with 6 4* players
just 5 2* players one of which is a kicker
the rest are 3* players
2012 was a top 40 class
with 5 4* players
just 5 2* players again 1 was a kicker
the resy were 3* players
this after going from 1999 to 2009 with getting 12-14 2* players in every class with 2005 being the only exception as they had just 4 2* recruit in that top 10 class, Doering a 5* didn't perform up to expectations, with 4* Bailey and Bain leaving early, Richardson and Moeaki suffered multiple injuries but still made it to the NFL there are risks to gettimng any kid, and that class endured a 7-5 season a 6-7 season and a 6-6 season their 1st 3 years
just because you have a very good recruiting class does not mean instant success, it has to have multiple years of recruiting success to maintain a high level of success. this is why the poor recruiting classes of 2008 and 2009 hurt so much. now that the coaches are improving the quality of recruits they will not be done for very long and you will see the improved recruiting start to show up this fall.
I just posted the starters and possible backups with their rankings in another thread, in it you will see the majority of the 4*'s either starting or in the 2 deeps for this fall, it will be interesting to see who come out of Spring ball in the 2 deeps
Red, I have said in many, many threads I agree that he has improved recruiting, the problem is the team has had 3 consecutive bad seasons with each season the team is getting worse. People are losing what little patience they have.
Stop with this crap about "not admitting recruiting has improved", we have discussed this and I have admitted that. See, you are starting an argument over nothing, this is all in your head.
Yeah. Myt statement could have been taken 2 ways. I was referring to the fact that KF makes $3.8 million recruiting a bunch of 2* players. That type of darn good living.
I see, yeah I guess for me personally, I don't care if KF makes $500 a year or $5 million a year.
He did do extremely well in '02 - '04 and even in '08 they had some lesser recruited guys who played well. I just think going forward they have to keep recruiting like they have the past 3 years.
SheagleHawk
Well-Known Member
Well, since you used all CAPS I guess you didn't
. There's no sense in presenting anything logical to an illogical person like yourself.Well, since you used all CAPS I guess you didn't
SheagleHawks, I wouldn't mind hearing what you think they could do better to recruit, if you have any ideas?
I don't really know how KF handles this but it seems like other schools sell themselves (OSU, Michigan, Alabama, USC). Iowa has some tradition but not compared to those schools.
It seems like for Iowa they go after a particular type of player/athlete they feel will fit their program. They usually seem to look for kids who might not be as heavily recruited but have an exceptional work ethic.
It is no shock or surprise to anyone that KF doesn't like "show offs, pre-madonnas" or anything like that. DJK was about as close as they get and he was in the doghouse all the time.
O-line and D-line they recruit guys who wrestled in HS, many of the guys won their state title or was at least in the state tournament because they are better with their hands and know how to use leverage better than just players who only played football.
[B said:
You assess your staff and determine who may have the skillsets to be excellent recruiters. You give them their assignment and measure their performance over time. If they excel....terrific. If they don't, you replace them. Good sales people make a difference. It is not just tradition, geography, facilities, etc. Why do some sales people excel consistently while others fail to survive while each selling the same product in the same geography? One possesses certain traits the others don't have or at least not to the same degree.
Ferentz has made some progress on this front in the last year with some changes. Time will tell if he has the right people who can show some improved results. Personally I don't see a big difference overall in recruitng results thus far this year vs. some of the last few years. Whether you use Rivals, Scout, ESPN, or 247 Sports they all have our 2013 class somewhere in the upper 40s to lower 50s. We're fighting a multiple year downward trend with the program which makes the recruiting task for Iowa all the more difficult.
I agree with your first paragraph, that makes a lot of sense. However I believe that other schools as I mentioned in my previous post don't have to "sell" their program like Iowa does. If they were to win consistently 8+ wins very season then I believe that will change but doesn't look like that is going to happen.
As for the second paragrahp, I think that this year isn't quite as good for 4* talent compared to the past two years but they also don't have too many 2* guys either. Although stars only matter when it comes to what they do on the field. Iowa has to get better top end talent and get them to succeed on the field. By that they need to coach them and motivate them. It just seems that the 3* - 4* kids Iowa does get a lot of them don't pan out or excel enough to make a huge difference on the field. Other schools are starting to get more out of their kids, people used to say that about Iowa, not so true anymore!
you clearly have a problem with the fact that KF has indeed improved recruiting, but as was just pointed out they still go after kids that fit with what they want.Well, since you used all CAPS I guess you didn't
this is why they do so well with Players like Hyde a QB in HS, Hitchens a RB in HS, or a player like McNutt a QB in HS, MM was a 3* and Hyde and Hitchen were 2*'s, the biggest thing is they stayed all 5 years and switched to a position where they succeeded, this is the problem the last 3 seasons, keeping players til the end of their college career.
Wegher 4* RB would have been a 4 year senior this year,
Coker 4* RB would have been a JR, who after his 1st 2 season ended up #11 on Iowa's all time rushing list with over 2000 yards
Reiff 1st round NFL pick would have been a SR, this year
players that would have been JR's and SR's the last 2 years that would have made a big difference
Blackwell 3* ATH from FL
Brinson 3* RB from FL
Hampton 2* RB from IND
Prater 3* DB from NEB
ARob 2* RB from IA
Semmes 2* DE from Mich
Statton 3* WR from NY
Swanson 2* DB from FL
would have been SR's this year and could have made a difference last year and this year, thats a lot of players to lose and then expect the players that are to replace then to be ready before they are is asking a lot
this is what I keep stressing out of the 15 4* recruits 11 are still here and are playing. with 3 RS'ing.
with 2 of them filling a big need Johnson, Ekakitie on the DL
you do realize that the # of recruits also affect the point total which affects the standings
also just going bu the stars don't tell the whole story
you have to look at the rankings of each just like there is a difference between a 5.7 3* and a 5.5 3* by rivals, just like with ESPN there is a difference between a 79 3* and 70 3*
Scout does not do this, rather than getting 2* or blow 3* recruits this class has 11 3* with a grade of 76 or higher.
getting kids to stay has been a problem the last few years escpecially DL men, and now Kaz is gone, people complained about the QB not progressing so KOK is gone, now complaining about Davis who had 7 months to undo what KOK did in 4 years, only Rudock was under KOK for 1 year. with GD Track record with Applewhite, Young and McCoy, I will gladly wait to see how the three QB's do under GD.
Red, I think you are missing his original point, you are telling everyone in every post that recruiting is getting better, that Ferentz is recruiting on a higher level now. But then you brought up Bob Sanders being a 2* recruit and nobody originally wanted him.
He wanted to know why if you keep saying recruiting is getting better and KF isn't just getting 2* guys, why are you bringing up old 2* recruits who had great careers that no one wanted during recruiting.
It comes off as flip-flopping.
AZHAWKFAN1
Well-Known Member
1*, not so good. 5*, best of the best. 3*, mid-range talent. Just hope for the best out of them.
