Linn-Mar Wrestler

[CRwrestling]

People who say (a) he was scared or (b) he demeaned her are incredibly naive and ignrant. The kid has strong beliefs and he stuck to them - how was it demeaning to her? She moved into the next round and has since been eliminated without much contest.

CRwrestling is entitled to his opinion and there is nothing I can do except casual remark that he is a complete idiot.

How is it not degrading? It is no different than if he refused to wrestle someone who was a different race. Whether he meant it like that or not, it is saying that it is below him to wrestle her and he did in the name of faith and morals. He did stick to his beleifs but his beleifs show a total lack of character, he shouldn't be praised for it.

 

[OnLookin08]

How is it not degrading? It is no different than if he refused to wrestle someone who was a different race. Whether he meant it like that or not, it is saying that it is below him to wrestle her and he did in the name of faith and morals. He did stick to his beleifs but his beleifs show a total lack of character, he shouldn't be praised for it.

Here is where I think some people are a bit mistaken in their opinion. What is "it?" The it in my opinion is people inserting what they think he meant or their version of what they think is right. The simple fact is that he has made it crystal clear why he did what he did. Therefore, the "it" is exactly that. Nothing more, nothing less, regardless of what people want to make it.

 

[tm3308]

It's a sport. She qualified.(END OF SENTENCE) @ 35-4 (NORTHROP'S RECORD) he should have wrestled her and moved into the second round. I hope she has spirited and competitive matches until she either places or is out of the tournament.

Dude, are you that ****** off to not read what is written?


I'll ask you the same question because as I read the article it stated pretty clearly what the girls record was. Here it is again:

Herkelman had a 20-13 record entering the tournament, but was deprived of the chance to show her skills when her favored opponent,

Is Herkelman the girl in question? Yes

It says Herkelman had a 20-13 record entering the tournament. If Herkelman is the girl in question then her record as per ESPN was 20-13 entering the tournament.

So who has the reading comprehension problem? Gravy or Hawkeye12345? I'll go with Gravy has the problem on this one for $1000.

Can't believe it was this hard to make the obvious known.

 

[tm3308]

Fair enough. But how in the same post can you speak of "old fashion values of female fragility" and then ask me to consider what she goes through on a daily basis and imagine the gaul she must have? If she is just like a guy, wouldn't those issues be insignificant?

True, I don't know a lot about you, which is why I was clear to speak about how you are representing yourself here, in my opinion. If actions and words don't speak to ones character please explain to me the qualifying instances that do. Would you not agree, as an apparent educate person, that you form an opinion of ones character and values by their actions? If you answer no, then you certainly could not have formed such an opinionated portrayal of a young man to whom you have very limited knowledge. Please explain to me the knowledge you have about him outside of the statement he released, which by all accounts was intelligent and respectful. The way I see it, you've provided much more about yourself in this thread that he did for you to form such a strong opinion. Perhaps I was too strong in my original post. But how can you possibly say something as ignorant as he is hiding behind religion and then try to hide yourself by saying this is a forum and we are all entitled to our opinions.

As long as I am at it, I choose to believe that most people are good and compassionate. I also acknowledge that comments posted on a web page lack the credibility to be cited as a representation of the masses. The reason I say I worry about such people is that it is often those with the strong opinions that believe they are right that you hear about the most. Let's face it, media has continually proven that the nice stories aren't what they are after. If there is a negative spin out there they will focus on it to get people watch. But that's just my opinion.

Athletics do not trump morals. As you said it is competition, one in which he chose not to take part. It is this attitude toward competition at all costs that I commend him for standing strong in the face of. Society says compete, fight, win, succeed. He took the road less traveled and stuck to his convictions.

Probably because she has to put up with crap that a male wrestler wouldn't have to. It's an obstacle that she had to overcome (Another reason why it's stupid to say girls shouldn't wrestle. If they can overcome all the obstacles, more power to them).

These girls aren't fine china, and shouldn't be treated as such, certainly if they don't want to be.

 

[tm3308]

Heres a question, Did this girl have a lot of people forfeit matches all year? or did she actually get the record she has by wrestling the guys?

If I remember correctly, she had 3 default wins this year (not including yesterday). That's not uncommon, at the lower weight classes especially. Some teams just don't have anyone in that weight class. But she earned the vast majority of her victories in actual matches.

 

[CRwrestling]

Wrestling with conviction - ESPN

Here is Rick Reilly's take on the situation. A good read.

 

[ICAlumni]

Wrestling with conviction - ESPN

Here is Rick Reilly's take on the situation. A good read.

That is a phenomenal article. Have always like Riley.

 

[CRwrestling]

Here is where I think some people are a bit mistaken in their opinion. What is "it?" The it in my opinion is people inserting what they think he meant or their version of what they think is right. The simple fact is that he has made it crystal clear why he did what he did. Therefore, the "it" is exactly that. Nothing more, nothing less, regardless of what people want to make it.

Listen. You're wrong. Just admit and you'll feel better.

She is a competitor. He is no more christian or moral than any of her other opponents. It is over now and he didn't place. He got what he deserved. He put her in a bad spot. Because of him she had to take her focus off wrestling and put it on national media. No, she wouldn't have won. She didn't need to. If she would've been pinned in that first match in the first period and she would have been able to say that she qualified for the greatest high school wrestling tournament on earth. That would have been enough. Now because of him she turned into a side show.

 

[kuhntz]

Originally Posted by TheJackass


I guess I shouldn't find it surprising that our youth are more intellectually advanced than many of their elders.
Amen, JA.

Just like the revolutionaries of the 60's.

 

[TChawk]

How is it not degrading? It is no different than if he refused to wrestle someone who was a different race. Whether he meant it like that or not, it is saying that it is below him to wrestle her and he did in the name of faith and morals. He did stick to his beleifs but his beleifs show a total lack of character, he shouldn't be praised for it.

That is utter BS you just posted...utter BS

 

[CRwrestling]

That is utter BS you just posted...utter BS

Great insight. Thanks. You really enlightened us.

You uttered BS but didn't say where I was wrong. Sounds like you may have just come to grips with some character flaws of your own.

 

[DwayneTwill]

Wrestling with conviction - ESPN

Here is Rick Reilly's take on the situation. A good read.

That's exceptional. A great take from her side.

 

[OnLookin08]

Probably because she has to put up with crap that a male wrestler wouldn't have to. It's an obstacle that she had to overcome (Another reason why it's stupid to say girls shouldn't wrestle. If they can overcome all the obstacles, more power to them).

These girls aren't fine china, and shouldn't be treated as such, certainly if they don't want to be.

I think you're quoting the wrong post here. We are basically saying the same thing if you go back to his original post. What I am saying is it seems hypocritical to say she should be treated the same as a male in the sport and then also speak to female fragility and how her feelings as a girl should be considered. Neither was my original thought, just an observation.

Perhaps I'm misreading what you're saying. Anyway, I'd agree that she has overcome a lot. My support of him in no way is a condemnation of her accomplishments and materity as a young person. They are both impressive young people in my mind. If people could quit looking for a winner and a loser it would be much easier.

The same as she has overcome a lot to do something she wants to do and believes in, so has he. Her issues include the traditional roles people see for her and women in general. His issues include the traditional importance people put on competition at all costs and what they view as proper beliefs. They are both winners in my book.

 

[OnLookin08]

Listen. You're wrong. Just admit and you'll feel better.

She is a competitor. He is no more christian or moral than any of her other opponents. It is over now and he didn't place. He got what he deserved. He put her in a bad spot. Because of him she had to take her focus off wrestling and put it on national media. No, she wouldn't have won. She didn't need to. If she would've been pinned in that first match in the first period and she would have been able to say that she qualified for the greatest high school wrestling tournament on earth. That would have been enough. Now because of him she turned into a side show.

I'm not trying to convince you I"m right. Quit thinking that and you'll save yourself some time. Like most logical people, I believe and appreciate that everyone has an opinion. I just happen to think yours is not the correct one in this matter.

This might be the greatest thing since sliced bread to you. To him it was not. He has taken a stance that high school wrestling will not take him farther than his faith. She has publicly stated that she respects and understands his decision. That's enough for me.

 

[OnLookin08]

That's exceptional. A great take from her side.

I don't know if I'd call it her side, but not a bad read from a different perspective.

I was okay with his opinion right up until he ended with this quote about the boys mom having a baby "For the kid's sake, I hope it's a boy."

What a *****. Really professional buddy. Way to lower you maturity level to that of a high schooler, but not one nearly as mature as the two young people represented in this story.

 

[tm3308]

I think you're quoting the wrong post here. We are basically saying the same thing if you go back to his original post. What I am saying is it seems hypocritical to say she should be treated the same as a male in the sport and then also speak to female fragility and how her feelings as a girl should be considered. Neither was my original thought, just an observation.

Perhaps I'm misreading what you're saying. Anyway, I'd agree that she has overcome a lot. My support of him in no way is a condemnation of her accomplishments and materity as a young person. They are both impressive young people in my mind. If people could quit looking for a winner and a loser it would be much easier.

The same as she has overcome a lot to do something she wants to do and believes in, so has he. Her issues include the traditional roles people see for her and women in general. His issues include the traditional importance people put on competition at all costs and what they view as proper beliefs. They are both winners in my book.

I think maybe we interpreted the same post a little differently. I don't think IC meant to contradict himself. I considered what she's had to go through, and that it would be tough if a boy had to go through the same things. It's not that we should consider it because maybe she's fragile. It's that she's an equal who is faced with far more obstacles than everyone else, only to be "protected" at the end of it all.

Again, I respect the boy's decision. I don't agree with it, but I can respect it.