Linn-Mar Wrestler

I don't know much about wrestling, but I know enough to know this kid was probably skerrrrred he'd lose to a girl.

Me and buddy played a couple girls from the UNI bball team 2 v 2 half court once. They whipped our a$$es so bad, they didn't even ask for a rematch - they just went off looking for two more chumps to school. It wasn't fun, but neither of us had anything to complain about either - them gals could flat out ball and beat us fair & square. I didn't need to cite some Mayflower-era Puritanical "religious belief" to bail me out - I just tried my best and swallowed my medicine when they whooped us. What is wrong with kids today? Afraid of a little competition, I guess.
 
1. by not wrestling her, in my opinion he totally disrespected her right to wrestle in the first place...I guess that is the basis of his religion...afterall women should be put in their place...cook my food and bring me a beer...right??

2. I wrestled a girl when I was in high school, almost thirty years ago. Did I think about not wrestling her? No, I thought a heck of a lot more about getting beat by her and what that would be like...no, she did not beat me, but she did beat many of the other kids she wrestled that year.

3. Honestly, it brings into question who actually has what genitalia...

Of course this is my OPINION and take it for what it is worth!
 
OnLookin08:

One other thing I want to say... you may think i'm in the minority but I think you're wrong.
You might want to skip over to the DM Register article on the match and note the 300+ comments on it. They are VASTLY in favor of the girl and critical of the forfeiture.
 
ICAlumni said:
No, I speak as if I have an opinion. It's what we all do. It's a forum - we are typing on keyboards. You don't know anything about me and you don't know anything about my morals. You shouldn't be "worried about a world with people like me" you should be worried about a world filled with old fashioned values of female fragility, inequality and acting like sports are some sort of violent war-like act. They are nothing like war. They are a competition. The girl wants to compete. Can you imagine what she goes up against on a daily basis, can you imagine what kind of gaul she needs to go through this? Can you imagine the things people say about her? To do what he did demeans her commitment, disrespects her as a (young)woman and as a co-competitor. If you want to be a wrestler... wrestle. Take on all comers. Be an athlete. Be a man.
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Fair enough. But how in the same post can you speak of "old fashion values of female fragility" and then ask me to consider what she goes through on a daily basis and imagine the gaul she must have? If she is just like a guy, wouldn't those issues be insignificant?

True, I don't know a lot about you, which is why I was clear to speak about how you are representing yourself here, in my opinion. If actions and words don't speak to ones character please explain to me the qualifying instances that do. Would you not agree, as an apparent educate person, that you form an opinion of ones character and values by their actions? If you answer no, then you certainly could not have formed such an opinionated portrayal of a young man to whom you have very limited knowledge. Please explain to me the knowledge you have about him outside of the statement he released, which by all accounts was intelligent and respectful. The way I see it, you've provided much more about yourself in this thread that he did for you to form such a strong opinion. Perhaps I was too strong in my original post. But how can you possibly say something as ignorant as he is hiding behind religion and then try to hide yourself by saying this is a forum and we are all entitled to our opinions.

As long as I am at it, I choose to believe that most people are good and compassionate. I also acknowledge that comments posted on a web page lack the credibility to be cited as a representation of the masses. The reason I say I worry about such people is that it is often those with the strong opinions that believe they are right that you hear about the most. Let's face it, media has continually proven that the nice stories aren't what they are after. If there is a negative spin out there they will focus on it to get people watch. But that's just my opinion.

Athletics do not trump morals. As you said it is competition, one in which he chose not to take part. It is this attitude toward competition at all costs that I commend him for standing strong in the face of. Society says compete, fight, win, succeed. He took the road less traveled and stuck to his convictions.
 
It's a sport. She qualified. @ 35-4 he should have wrestled her and moved into the second round. I hope she has spirited and competitive matches until she either places or is out of the tournament.
 
oregonhawkeye said:
Will someone please articulate the "belief" or "moral" that was upheld by this kid in not participating in the wrestling match?
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Exactly what I've been wondering. How is patronizing and demeaning another person in line with his faith?

What if his boss is a woman. Will he be able to tell her to screw off and don't talk to him b/c his moral code says that women are for child bearing child rearing.
 
CRwrestling said:
Exactly what I've been wondering. How is patronizing and demeaning another person in line with his faith?

What if his boss is a woman. Will he be able to tell her to screw off and don't talk to him b/c his moral code says that women are for child bearing child rearing.
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If his boss is a woman he will likely show her great respect as both he and his father have stated is their reason for not wanting to physically engage her. Respecting women and treating them with a higher standard is not sexism, no matter how much some people want to make it that.

Dumb example, in my humblest of opinions.
 
People who say (a) he was scared or (b) he demeaned her are incredibly naive and ignrant. The kid has strong beliefs and he stuck to them - how was it demeaning to her? She moved into the next round and has since been eliminated without much contest.

CRwrestling is entitled to his opinion and there is nothing I can do except casual remark that he is a complete idiot.
 
TWIFFFFI said:
It's a sport. She qualified. @ 35-4 he should have wrestled her and moved into the second round. I hope she has spirited and competitive matches until she either places or is out of the tournament.
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Ummm, per ESPN her record was 20-13 not 35-4. She lost both her matches in the tournament and is done. So is the other girl.
 
I guess I don't understand the kid's stance. Life is too short to get too caught up in what might not be the norm. Wrestling a girl might not be the norm but she earned her way into the tournament. She is a wrestler. He is a wrestler. So be it. Wrestle her and continue down your path of seeking a state title.

I think too often in society we get caught up in beliefs that might not hold too much water. So what if she is a girl? Why does that matter? Why should that change anything. It is still a wrestling match -- in the most prestigious state wrestling tournament in the country.

What "belief" is strong enough to not carry through with the match. This isn't 1950. Things change. We evolve. Kudos to the girl for even trying out for her team. Imagine the ridicule and looks she received each time she took the mat.

We are all human beings. We have different interests. Different goals. Her goal is to wrestle. His goal is to wrestle. Why get caught up in the 'well, she's a girl' mentality. Who cares? You are both wrestlers and you both worked your butt off to get to the state tournament.

I think when the male wrestler gets older he will look back and regret the decision to not take the mat. Sure, in life some things are worth fighting for and standing up against ... You pick your battles and I am not sure this was a battle worth fighting. Wrestle the match and continue on.
 
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OnLookin08 said:
Fair enough. But how in the same post can you speak of "old fashion values of female fragility" and then ask me to consider what she goes through on a daily basis and imagine the gaul she must have? If she is just like a guy, wouldn't those issues be insignificant?

True, I don't know a lot about you, which is why I was clear to speak about how you are representing yourself here, in my opinion. If actions and words don't speak to ones character please explain to me the qualifying instances that do. Would you not agree, as an apparent educate person, that you form an opinion of ones character and values by their actions? If you answer no, then you certainly could not have formed such an opinionated portrayal of a young man to whom you have very limited knowledge. Please explain to me the knowledge you have about him outside of the statement he released, which by all accounts was intelligent and respectful. The way I see it, you've provided much more about yourself in this thread that he did for you to form such a strong opinion. Perhaps I was too strong in my original post. But how can you possibly say something as ignorant as he is hiding behind religion and then try to hide yourself by saying this is a forum and we are all entitled to our opinions.

As long as I am at it, I choose to believe that most people are good and compassionate. I also acknowledge that comments posted on a web page lack the credibility to be cited as a representation of the masses. The reason I say I worry about such people is that it is often those with the strong opinions that believe they are right that you hear about the most. Let's face it, media has continually proven that the nice stories aren't what they are after. If there is a negative spin out there they will focus on it to get people watch. But that's just my opinion.

Athletics do not trump morals. As you said it is competition, one in which he chose not to take part. It is this attitude toward competition at all costs that I commend him for standing strong in the face of. Society says compete, fight, win, succeed. He took the road less traveled and stuck to his convictions.
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This is an excellent post and I totally respect your opinion and credit you for stating such in impressive fashion.
 
DesMoinesHawki said:
I guess I don't understand the kid's stance. Life is too short to get too caught up in what might not be the norm. Wrestling a girl might not be the norm but she earned her way into the tournament. She is a wrestler. He is a wrestler. So be it. Wrestle her and continue down your path of seeking a state title.

I think too often in society we get caught up in beliefs that might not hold too much water. So what if she is a girl? Why does that matter? Why should that change anything. It is still a wrestling match -- in the most prestigious state wrestling tournament in the country.

What "belief" is strong enough to not carry through with the match. This isn't 1950. Things change. We evolve. Kudos to the girl for even trying out for her team. Imagine the ridicule and looks she received each time she took the mat.

We are all human beings. We have different interests. Different goals. Her goal is to wrestle. His goal is to wrestle. Why get caught up in the 'well, she's a girl' mentality. Who cares? You are both wrestlers and you both worked your butt off to get to the state tournament.

I think when the male wrestler gets older he will look back and regret the decision to not take the mat. Sure, in life some things are worth fighting for and standing up against ... You pick your battles and I am not sure this was a battle worth fighting. Wrestle the match and continue on.
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Well stated DM.
 
DesMoinesHawki said:
I guess I don't understand the kid's stance. Life is too short to get too caught up in what might not be the norm. Wrestling a girl might not be the norm but she earned her way into the tournament. She is a wrestler. He is a wrestler. So be it. Wrestle her and continue down your path of seeking a state title.

I think too often in society we get caught up in beliefs that might not hold too much water. So what if she is a girl? Why does that matter? Why should that change anything. It is still a wrestling match -- in the most prestigious state wrestling tournament in the country.

What "belief" is strong enough to not carry through with the match. This isn't 1950. Things change. We evolve. Kudos to the girl for even trying out for her team. Imagine the ridicule and looks she received each time she took the mat.

We are all human beings. We have different interests. Different goals. Her goal is to wrestle. His goal is to wrestle. Why get caught up in the 'well, she's a girl' mentality. Who cares? You are both wrestlers and you both worked your butt off to get to the state tournament.

I think when the male wrestler gets older he will look back and regret the decision to not take the mat. Sure, in life some things are worth fighting for and standing up against ... You pick your battles and I am not sure this was a battle worth fighting. Wrestle the match and continue on.
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DesMoines, I hope you have some belief system that would prevent you from exercising some right because the exercising of that right would violate your beliefs.
 
GravyJones said:
Holy crap, have you always had problems with reading comprehension?
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Dude, are you that ****** off to not read what is written?


I'll ask you the same question because as I read the article it stated pretty clearly what the girls record was. Here it is again:

Herkelman had a 20-13 record entering the tournament, but was deprived of the chance to show her skills when her favored opponent,

Is Herkelman the girl in question? Yes

It says Herkelman had a 20-13 record entering the tournament. If Herkelman is the girl in question then her record as per ESPN was 20-13 entering the tournament.

So who has the reading comprehension problem? Gravy or Hawkeye12345? I'll go with Gravy has the problem on this one for $1000.
 
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