Kirk's Legacy

smhawk

smhawk

Well-Known Member
So hypothetical question. Say Hawks win the rose and average 8 wins over next four seasons. If Kirk retires at that point do you think the majority of the fan base will forgive and forget Kirk bad seasons, and regard his legacy as close behind that of Hayden Fry? Fry never did get a rose bowl win.

Read over an article of Charlie Strong hiring new assistants in order to keep his job at Texas. And couldn't help but think, if Kirk was able to have the recruiting advantage Strong has, Kirk would have a national title within 5 years. It was really exciting to believe it was an actual possibility at Iowa this season. Next years team will have a chance to contend for Big ten title and playoffs again. While Ferentz teams usually under-perform with high expectations, maybe this "new version" of Kirk will finally exceed already high expectations.
 
Ferentz is ahead of Fry at this point. Now, it's kind of an apples/oranges deal as Fry inherited a worse situation than did Ferentz.

How about Fry's "bad" seasons? What did he do to allow fans to 'forget' them. Or are fans just "practicers" of revisionist history??
 
What it boils down to is that we will have had back to back coaches who have had some great years and some flat out bad ones.

Fry took over a team in a much worse position, but KF took the Hawks higher than they had ever been several times. Each of Kirk's peaks getting higher each time.

The difference is that KF will most likely leave the team in a better place than Fry left it when he was done.

The landscape has changed so much since Fry's days that it is hard to compare the two.

Both will be hall of fame coaches. The funny thing is that I really believe Kirk's best days are ahead of him. The staff has been slowly (and I will say almost too slowly) building a team that matches what they want to be able to do on the field.

Go Hawks and bring home the Roses.
 
imported_ankle23 said:
Ferentz is ahead of Fry at this point. Now, it's kind of an apples/oranges deal as Fry inherited a worse situation than did Ferentz.

How about Fry's "bad" seasons? What did he do to allow fans to 'forget' them. Or are fans just "practicers" of revisionist history??
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?????you got to be kidding me with what did Fry do to allow fans to forget. Lmao WOW!!! Apples and Oranges you say seriously that's a complete understatement!! My goodness.. The things I read sometimes is amazing.
 
HawkPrdatr40 said:
?????you got to be kidding me with what did Fry do to allow fans to forget. Lmao WOW!!! Apples and Oranges you say seriously that's a complete understatement!! My goodness.. The things I read sometimes is amazing.
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fry's worse years much worse than ferentz'. i love fry - don't miss my point here -- but if the premise is that what does ferentz have to do to allow fans to forget the 'bad' years then the same premise should apply to fry, no? i sat thru some really bad teams from 1992 to 1998. way, way more apathy and pessimism than has been seen under ferentz. quick kick on 3rd down. draw on 3rd down? predictable, oh yeah. but i love fry - brought iowa back from the dead and took it to national prominence. just don't have revisionist history.
 
I agree Coach Fry had to start at the bottom to build the program and change the culture,he had to teach the team on how to win.When he was getting close to retirement we weren't getting the recruits so when Coach Ferentz was hired he had to do some building of his own.We didn't have any depth on the offensive and defensive lines so our #2s weren't very good.I remember the gazette second guessing his decision on what coaches he hired. He hired teachers.One thing both of the coaches had in common was they were loyal to their assistants,sometimes to much.They wouldn't throw any of them to the curb.Both coaches deserve our support for what they stand for,they didn't take short cuts in building the program.We have great student athletes because of them.Thank You
 
imported_ankle23 said:
fry's worse years much worse than ferentz'. i love fry - don't miss my point here -- but if the premise is that what does ferentz have to do to allow fans to forget the 'bad' years then the same premise should apply to fry, no? i sat thru some really bad teams from 1992 to 1998. way, way more apathy and pessimism than has been seen under ferentz. quick kick on 3rd down. draw on 3rd down? predictable, oh yeah. but i love fry - brought iowa back from the dead and took it to national prominence. just don't have revisionist history.
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Ferentz has now done something fry didn't do and that is complete the unthinkable... an undefeated regular season at the university of Iowa. Fry came close as did ferentz in 2009. I think he is slightly above fry now, with a couple more good years left in the bank. Iowa is likely to finish top 10 even if they lose closely... and likely to be preseason top 10-15 starting next year. This will be the 3rd time this program has risen to this level under ferentz. Now the key will to finish better in that second season... the one following the epic year. If Iowa can produce another top 10 finish next year... then it is not even debatable.
 
Fry only had to two top 10 finishes. Both times at number ten after the '85 & '91 seasons. Also, people don't realize that Commings had actually turned the program around with regards to recruiting. People forget that the majority of starters on the '81 Rose Bowl team were Commings' recruits. Ten of the defensive starters, the leading rusher & pass receiver were not recruited by Fry. Commings couldn't coach, but he sure upgraded the talent level from FXL. Of course, Fry did inherit a program with seventeen consecutive non-winning seasons. Ray Nagel was five & five in '67 & '68.

After Evy's last five seasons, the eight seasons from '02 through '09 was the best run in Iowa football history. Hayden's top eight seasons don't equal that eight year run. I am old enough to remember Nagel, FXL & Bobby. I am not trying to belittle Hayden. His accomplishments were amazing!
 
While it's easy to say Fry never ran the table in the conference; he also was never granted a season where he didn't have to play at least penn st. MSU, OSU or Michigan in regular season conference play. That 85 team runs the table not having to play ohio state in conference play.
 
Undefeated said:
While it's easy to say Fry never ran the table in the conference; he also was never granted a season where he didn't have to play at least penn st. MSU, OSU or Michigan in regular season conference play. That 85 team runs the table not having to play ohio state in conference play.
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No doubt about it and Michigan was the better than tOSU that year. Michigan's only loss was to Iowa. Iowa should have won the bowl game to. We would have scored almost every possession against UCLA if not for 6 turnovers.

Crowd noise played a huge factor in the tOSU game since Long wasn't able to audible. We win that tOSU game in Kinnick 9 out of 10.
 
One could make a case for either Fry or Ferentz...all depends in how you frame it. Hayden had down years as has Kirk. While Kirk's "great" years look a little more impressive, the times when he's taken an absolute dump (as in coaching fail) have been just as embarrassing. So they kind of balance out.

Two great coaches, glad we had em both at IOWA.
 
Hayden also beat Iowa state 16 times in a row, and my guess is Iowa state was just as bad in the Ferentz era as they have been during Hayden's tenure.

Kirk has had the benefit of Michigan being as bad as they have ever been, while Hayden had the benefit of teams like Wisconsin and Michigan State being worse than they are now
 
Undefeated said:
Hayden also beat Iowa state 16 times in a row, and my guess is Iowa state was just as bad in the Ferentz era as they have been during Hayden's tenure.

Kirk has had the benefit of Michigan being as bad as they have ever been, while Hayden had the benefit of teams like Wisconsin and Michigan State being worse than they are now
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The ISU pathos will always be a mark in the "minus" column for Kirk...it's exhibit 1A of my point about his lows being as low as his highs were high.
 
Undefeated said:
Hayden also beat Iowa state 16 times in a row, and my guess is Iowa state was just as bad in the Ferentz era as they have been during Hayden's tenure.

Kirk has had the benefit of Michigan being as bad as they have ever been, while Hayden had the benefit of teams like Wisconsin and Michigan State being worse than they are now
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Yeah, but Hayden lost to Silo Tech as a thirty point favorite. One of the biggest upsets in NCAA history.
 
I'm extremely happy that men like Hayden and Kirk have been the coaches in almost my entire 39 year life.

We are very lucky in many ways.

Hayden still has the edge overall for me personally, but it's close(a RB victory way give KF the edge). I think when it's all said and done we're going to have 2 HOF coaches that encompassed the last 35+ years.
 
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