Kirk Ferentz vs Hayden Fry

[Bigtenchamp]

I was interested in analyzing these two coaches and see what I could compare and contrast - or notice any trends. I think sometimes people tend to think Ferentz is the more successful coach - especially fans under 30. It's interesting to look at the statistics. All these stats just include their time at Iowa.

Hayden Fry 1979-1998

Ovr: 143-89-6 (61.6 win%)
Big10: 98-61-5 (61.6 win%)

Bowl Victories: 6
Top 25 finishes: 10
Top 10 finishes: 1


Kirk Ferentz 1999-2011

Ovr: 95-64 (59.7 win%)
Big10: 56-46 (54.7 win%)

Bowl Victories: 6
Top 25 finishes: 5
Top 10 finishes: 4

In some areas Hayden has a better track record, but Ferentz (4 top 10 finishes) has his strong points as well

Also, If you look at his career - Hayden started to decline after year 12. I hope that this is not the same case with Ferentz - that somehow this is the shelf life for an Iowa coach.

 

[HaydenHawk56]

Hayden also on a regular basis beat the teams he was suppose to beat (and usually by a wide margin). Ferentz has had more top end success (other than having one of his teams ranked number 1 in the country unlike Fry who did in 85).

If we could somehow morph these coaches together......

 

[homes]

Hayden also on a regular basis beat the teams he was suppose to beat (and usually by a wide margin). Ferentz has had more top end success (other than having one of his teams ranked number 1 in the country unlike Fry who did in 85).

If we could somehow morph these coaches together......

Hayden showed no mercy on the teams he was supposed to beat, his teams got on those opponents and buried them from the start. Ferentz has clearly demonstrated that he's not about that, which leads to his less than stellar record in those games.

 

[truehawk]

Hayden also on a regular basis beat the teams he was suppose to beat (and usually by a wide margin). Ferentz has had more top end success (other than having one of his teams ranked number 1 in the country unlike Fry who did in 85).If we could somehow morph these coaches together......

This. Kfs ability to develop players and his on field demeanor with haydens personality and desire to play to win and win big would be the perfect coach.

 

[imported_ankle23]

it's funny to hear people compare how 'conservative' Ferentz is compared to Fry, and how we need to implement the 'exotics' and 'open up the offense' like we did under Fry.

How many times has Ferentz quick kicked on 3rd down?

How many times does Ferentz run a draw on 3rd and long?

Fry was a very, very conservative coach. He used the 'exotics' generally when the game was out of hand. Funny stuff.

 

[DJL]

it's funny to hear people compare how 'conservative' Ferentz is compared to Fry, and how we need to implement the 'exotics' and 'open up the offense' like we did under Fry.

How many times has Ferentz quick kicked on 3rd down?

How many times does Ferentz run a draw on 3rd and long?

Fry was a very, very conservative coach. He used the 'exotics' generally when the game was out of hand. Funny stuff.

I agree 100%. Everyone in the stands would complain about Fry using the 3rd and long draw play even before it happend. We all knew it was coming. With that said, I did appreciate the fact that he kept the crappy teams down. I can't stand that we lose to ISU, Minnesota, and Northwestern.

 

[imported_ankle23]

I agree 100%. Everyone in the stands would complain about Fry using the 3rd and long draw play even before it happend. We all knew it was coming. With that said, I did appreciate the fact that he kept the crappy teams down. I can't stand that we lose to ISU, Minnesota, and Northwestern.

Fry was losing to said teams at the end of his tenure.

MN almost beat Fry - with a Rose Bowl game in play - only to have a last second FG disallowed due to a penalty - MN rekicked and missed - IA goes to Rose Bowl - 1981 season I believe.

NW is a totally different team now as compared to then. Same can be said about ISU. NW and ISU were terrible football teams in the majority of the Fry era.

MN also beat Fry prior to IA going to the Rose Bowl in '91. Iowa was fortunate in the outcome of a Michigan/OSU game. I know that game was over during the game, and effected the mental aspect of IA, but still. I don't think Fry dominated MN in his tenure, but I could be wrong.

 

[DJL]

Fry was losing to said teams at the end of his tenure.

MN almost beat Fry - with a Rose Bowl game in play - only to have a last second FG disallowed due to a penalty - MN rekicked and missed - IA goes to Rose Bowl - 1981 season I believe.

NW is a totally different team now as compared to then. Same can be said about ISU. NW and ISU were terrible football teams in the majority of the Fry era.

MN also beat Fry prior to IA going to the Rose Bowl in '91. Iowa was fortunate in the outcome of a Michigan/OSU game. I know that game was over during the game, and effected the mental aspect of IA, but still. I don't think Fry dominated MN in his tenure, but I could be wrong.

Fry seemed to lose it all at the end of his career. I would say that KF has lost to some pretty bad Iowa State teams. I agree with you on NW, but my point is we tend to lose games every year to teams we shouldn't whether it is a terrible Minnesota team the last two years, or Indiana or whoever.

Minnesota beat Iowa in 1990 and they were not as horrible as they are now. They were 6-5 overall. In 1991 Iowa pounded Minnesota.

 

[imported_ankle23]

Fry seemed to lose it all at the end of his career. I would say that KF has lost to some pretty bad Iowa State teams. I agree with you on NW, but my point is we tend to lose games every year to teams we shouldn't whether it is a terrible Minnesota team the last two years, or Indiana or whoever.

Minnesota beat Iowa in 1990 and they were not as horrible as they are now. They were 6-5 overall. In 1991 Iowa pounded Minnesota.

I said '91 as the Rose Bowl was 91. The game was '90, and I was there. Iowa went to the Rose Bowl, had to either beat MN or have OSU/MIchigan lose (forget which one). Whichever team had to lose, lost as did Iowa. Iowa very lucky with their 1st rose bowl under Fry that they beat MN. Just saying, even Fry's best teams got beat by MN.

 

[Bigtenchamp]

Minnesota was a much better football team back then - but trying to compare the state of the big ten now to then is pretty hard to do. I don't want to get into it.

As far as Hayden Fry being conservative - I really don't agree with that.

I remember in his early days having passing games of 500 yards ect.

Hayden got more conservative in his later days.

I'm not really saying one is better than the other or anything I'm just pointing out the numbers.

 

[DJL]

I said '91 as the Rose Bowl was 91. The game was '90, and I was there. Iowa went to the Rose Bowl, had to either beat MN or have OSU/MIchigan lose (forget which one). Whichever team had to lose, lost as did Iowa. Iowa very lucky with their 1st rose bowl under Fry that they beat MN. Just saying, even Fry's best teams got beat by MN.

That makes sense. Minnesota is so bad this year, so I guess that's why I used them as an example. They have been at least respectable in the past. I did enjoy Fry beating down ISU every year which has stopped.

The truth is, we have been lucky to have both coaches. They both did great things for Iowa football. All anybody wants out of life is 10% more than they have

 

[hawkfan8691]

Fry was losing to said teams at the end of his tenure.

MN almost beat Fry - with a Rose Bowl game in play - only to have a last second FG disallowed due to a penalty - MN rekicked and missed - IA goes to Rose Bowl - 1981 season I believe.
NW is a totally different team now as compared to then. Same can be said about ISU. NW and ISU were terrible football teams in the majority of the Fry era.

MN also beat Fry prior to IA going to the Rose Bowl in '91. Iowa was fortunate in the outcome of a Michigan/OSU game. I know that game was over during the game, and effected the mental aspect of IA, but still. I don't think Fry dominated MN in his tenure, but I could be wrong.

The 1981 season, Minnesota beat Iowa 12-10. The game you're thinking of was in 1986, and the Rose Bowl wasn't on the line

 

[HawkinGoferLand]

Fry has been credited with bringing competitive balance to B10. Before he arrived it was the Big 2 in UM and OSU where UM or OSU won or shared 13 straight titles. After Fry took the Hawks to the Rose Bowl (in year 3), other schools said "hey, if Iowa can do it, we can too" and used this blue print. Since Fry won in 1981, every B10 school except MN and IU have won/shared a title.

So it can be argued that KF coaches in a tougher league than Fry.

 

[BackNBlk]

I was going to make this thread myself, so I'm glad that someone made it because fans need to look at the two of them and put things in perspective. First of all they coached in different eras for the most part. Fry coached most of those years before the scholarship limit got down to 85 where it is now. There is more parity in football now, so the crappy schools aren't quite as crappy as they used to be.

Fry was all about wide open offenses and he would use trick plays often enough.

If we want to compare them, they are both averaging about 7 wins a season. After season 12, KF has won more bowls (6) than Hayden had (4). Kirk also has won one of the big 4 bowls......a feat never achieved by Hayden. Kirk also has better records vs Michigan and Penn State than Hayden. Hayden had 3 Big 10 titles by the end of season 8, but never got another one after that. Kirk has 2 by the end of season 6. Kirk only needs 7 more wins a year for the next 7 (2018) to catch Hayden. That means they both would have spent 20 years at the school.

I love Hayden and he deserves every bit of respect that he has gotten, but people can't treat Kirk like he is **** in the corner when he has so far equaled Hayden in some areas and surpassed him in others.

 

[imported_ankle23]

I was going to make this thread myself, so I'm glad that someone made it because fans need to look at the two of them and put things in perspective. First of all they coached in different eras for the most part. Fry coached most of those years before the scholarship limit got down to 85 where it is now. There is more parity in football now, so the crappy schools aren't quite as crappy as they used to be.

Fry was all about wide open offenses and he would use trick plays often enough.

If we want to compare them, they are both averaging about 7 wins a season. After season 12, KF has won more bowls (6) than Hayden had (4). Kirk also has won one of the big 4 bowls......a feat never achieved by Hayden. Kirk also has better records vs Michigan and Penn State than Hayden. Hayden had 3 Big 10 titles by the end of season 8, but never got another one after that. Kirk has 2 by the end of season 6. Kirk only needs 7 more wins a year for the next 7 (2018) to catch Hayden. That means they both would have spent 20 years at the school.

I love Hayden and he deserves every bit of respect that he has gotten, but people can't treat Kirk like he is **** in the corner when he has so far equaled Hayden in some areas and surpassed him in others.

good post.

Fry was about establishing the run and developing the passing game from that. throwing to the TE was a staple. the 'wide open offense' thing is curious, at best. he was never a BYU, a Houston, etc. you can find him saying such on youtube clips - being run first to open up the passing game. just like the current staff.

 

[BackNBlk]

good post.

Fry was about establishing the run and developing the passing game from that. throwing to the TE was a staple. the 'wide open offense' thing is curious, at best. he was never a BYU, a Houston, etc. you can find him saying such on youtube clips - being run first to open up the passing game. just like the current staff.

Thank you. Not meaning wide open in that they were like BYU or something, but they lead the Big 10 in passing like four times under Hayden. I think we had four All Big 10 QBs too....which is pretty good for a running school.

 

[Bigtenchamp]

I was going to make this thread myself, so I'm glad that someone made it because fans need to look at the two of them and put things in perspective. First of all they coached in different eras for the most part. Fry coached most of those years before the scholarship limit got down to 85 where it is now. There is more parity in football now, so the crappy schools aren't quite as crappy as they used to be.

Fry was all about wide open offenses and he would use trick plays often enough.

If we want to compare them, they are both averaging about 7 wins a season. After season 12, KF has won more bowls (6) than Hayden had (4). Kirk also has won one of the big 4 bowls......a feat never achieved by Hayden. Kirk also has better records vs Michigan and Penn State than Hayden. Hayden had 3 Big 10 titles by the end of season 8, but never got another one after that. Kirk has 2 by the end of season 6. Kirk only needs 7 more wins a year for the next 7 (2018) to catch Hayden. That means they both would have spent 20 years at the school.

I love Hayden and he deserves every bit of respect that he has gotten, but people can't treat Kirk like he is **** in the corner when he has so far equaled Hayden in some areas and surpassed him in others.

See this is what I mean - I think if you look at the numbers it's tough to argue one is better than the other yet I supposed to conclude from your "stats" that one is.

Basing anything off of total amount of wins is obviously skewed - they played less games back then and their were ties.

You can only go by winning percentage with I clearly posted.

 

[kuhntz]

I was going to make this thread myself, so I'm glad that someone made it because fans need to look at the two of them and put things in perspective. First of all they coached in different eras for the most part. Fry coached most of those years before the scholarship limit got down to 85 where it is now. There is more parity in football now, so the crappy schools aren't quite as crappy as they used to be.

Fry was all about wide open offenses and he would use trick plays often enough.

If we want to compare them, they are both averaging about 7 wins a season. After season 12, KF has won more bowls (6) than Hayden had (4). Kirk also has won one of the big 4 bowls......a feat never achieved by Hayden. Kirk also has better records vs Michigan and Penn State than Hayden. Hayden had 3 Big 10 titles by the end of season 8, but never got another one after that. Kirk has 2 by the end of season 6. Kirk only needs 7 more wins a year for the next 7 (2018) to catch Hayden. That means they both would have spent 20 years at the school.

I love Hayden and he deserves every bit of respect that he has gotten, but people can't treat Kirk like he is **** in the corner when he has so far equaled Hayden in some areas and surpassed him in others.

You can't go off 7 wins per year...we play 1 or 2 more games per season today.

Additionally, look at the OOC scheduling...Iowa doesn't play any top tier programs at all anymore. KF should exceed what Fry did for winning percentage and overall wins.

Can't find a full list of past schedules yet, but we played teams like Oklahoma, Nebraska, UCLA and Miami in the OOC during some of Fry's years.

 

[Bigtenchamp]

Thank you. Not meaning wide open in that they were like BYU or something, but they lead the Big 10 in passing like four times under Hayden. I think we had four All Big 10 QBs too....which is pretty good for a running school.

Fry was pretty progressive in his younger days - as he got older and lost his edge he became more conservative.

I remember watching some pretty high scoring teams that passed the ball alot.

Iowa is much much much more heavily based on the running game then it was back then.

 

[FalseMirage]

it's funny to hear people compare how 'conservative' Ferentz is compared to Fry, and how we need to implement the 'exotics' and 'open up the offense' like we did under Fry.

How many times has Ferentz quick kicked on 3rd down?

How many times does Ferentz run a draw on 3rd and long?

Fry was a very, very conservative coach. He used the 'exotics' generally when the game was out of hand. Funny stuff.

And then he would squeeze all the mileage he could out of the exotics to help create the illusion of a wide open offense.