Keno, Lick, McDerm and Franny... why does mid-major success not translate?

hawkforlife9

hawkforlife9

Well-Known Member
It happens over and over again, a mid major has chemistry with a group of players, they make a run in the tourney, the coach gets recruited to a major, and he fails miserably. Why doesn't mid major coaching success transfer up?
 
1) Fran hasn't failed.
2) Fran's resume is completely different than any of the other guys you have listed here.
3) Derp
 
hawkforlife9 said:
It happens over and over again, a mid major has chemistry with a group of players, they make a run in the tourney, the coach gets recruited to a major, and he fails miserably. Why doesn't mid major coaching success transfer up?
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You've given up on Fran after 1.1 seasons? Pathetic. The key is recruiting. All, but Fran (yet to be determined) have failed miserably at this. They try to bring in mid major talent to play in big conferences. It doesnt' work.

Give Fran a little time geez. he's got the recruiting ball going and he started from scratch here.
 
It's too early to say that Fran has failed. But regarding Lick, Keno & McDermott.. I guess it's less of a trick to compete in a mid-major conference against weak competition, get to the tourney, and win a game or two against opponents that aren't familiar with you.

And Keno had what, 1 year at Drake with Mr. Davis's players before being hired by Providence? Maybe 2 (without looking it up)? He didn't really prove that he was a great coach before he got a Big East gig.

When you are competing in the Big 10 or Big XII, where teams get a chance to really know you, and you are competing against much better talent night in and night out, much different scenario IMO. That's just my theory.
 
hawkforlife9 said:
Lick had a much higher winning % coming into Iowa than Franny.
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1) Lick and Keno took a program that was already set up for success, and solid recruits already in place for the level of competition.

2) Fran took over programs with worse records then Iowa, and turned them around.

3) Fran has not had 2 full years. The chapter is not closed yet on year 2. Also has some really good recruits coming in.

Get off the bandwagon already and go back into the wood work. We will see you when Fran takes them to the NCAA tourney (which I give 2 more years).
 
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Well, Keno was in the Big East, where they've taken football suck and turned it into undisputable basketball greatness. I think he might have lasted longer elsewhere.

Fran still needs a few years. McDermott and Lick got at least a crack with a roster that they completely assembled. I don't know how to explain them...or--to a degree--Alford. Alford was kind of a flash-in-the-pan at SMS, as you said getting the big job based on one tourney run. Lick and McDermott both had previous sustained success.

Plenty of coaches successfully make the jump, but Lick clearly under-recruited, trying to re-assemble his Butler team at Iowa. He also must have had trouble interacting with the players. Playing his son was a big problem, too. And people think Fran made a bad personnel decision relying on Marble as the backup PG...
 
hawkforlife9 said:
It happens over and over again, a mid major has chemistry with a group of players, they make a run in the tourney, the coach gets recruited to a major, and he fails miserably. Why doesn't mid major coaching success transfer up?
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Thad Matta, Mike Brey, Gary Williams, Ben Howland, Jay Wright, Jim Calhoun.

Small sample size.
 
Lute Olson, before coming to Iowa coached at Long Beach State. He made Iowa a great program again, and had them in the Final 4 within 6 years. George Raveling came from a major college into a well established program that was favored to run away with the Big 10 in 1984. They had been in the Sweet 16 the previous year and brought back most of their players. That team won 13 games. Mid major has nothing to do with it. It's the coach, period. There are too many aspects of coaching to pigeon-hole a guy because he started at a Mid-major. Fred Hoiberg notwithstanding, not too many guys in the business start their coaching career in a major conference. The new blood has to come from somewhere.
 
DuffMan said:
Irrelevant. He'd never built a program.
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Like Fran built UNC Greensboro? And Sienna was a solid program when Fran took over. Paul Hewitt made them a winner. Fran got players when he was in his backyard.

There isn't much difference between Lick, McDermott, and Fran as far as their resumes go. McDermott build a couple programs up and that meant nothing at ISU
 
Cyclones17 said:
Like Fran built UNC Greensboro? And Sienna was a solid program when Fran took over. Paul Hewitt made them a winner. Fran got players when he was in his backyard.

There isn't much difference between Lick, McDermott, and Fran as far as their resumes go. McDermott build a couple programs up and that meant nothing at ISU
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Sienna was not a solid program when Fran took over. They had 24 losses the year before they got there. Saying Hewitt made them a winner is like saying Hoiberg took over a solid program because Eustachy made them a winner.
 
hawkfan33 said:
Sienna was not a solid program when Fran took over. They had 24 losses the year before they got there. Saying Hewitt made them a winner is like saying Hoiberg took over a solid program because Eustachy made them a winner.
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That's not comparable at all. 4 out of 7 seasons before Fran took over Sienna had over 20 wins. Sienna wasn't a rebuilding job like you would think.
 
DuffMan said:
Q: How do you know when an OP has lost an arguemtn?
A: When Clowns17 is on his side.
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I'm not on his side. You just lack knowledge when you say Fran's resume is better than Lick's or McDermott's was.

McDermott's rebuilding job of UNI was more impressive than anything that anyone else on that list has done, and it meant jack at ISU.
 
Cyclones17 said:
That's not comparable at all. 4 out of 7 seasons before Fran took over Sienna had over 20 wins. Sienna wasn't a rebuilding job like you would think.
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LOL just like Indiana was not a rebuilding job when Crean took over, right? What the **** do results from seven years before a coach took over have to do with the quality of the program they are inheriting?
 
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