JW Summer league impressions

Hawkfnntn

Well-Known Member
So far he's struggled to score. Through 3 games he's scored 5 points twice and 3 yesterday. I hope he and most don't get frustrated by that but to me that'll be his role at this level. He's what I call a dependent SG. He and guys like Kyle Korver are not the type to handle the ball much and dribble drive or create shots for themselves or others very much. He's just not. He depends on others to help create his looks be it Garza drawing attention in the half court or allowing others like JBo, PM and CF to handle the ball more.

Who amongst Iowas starters handled the ball the least the last couple yrs? It's between him and CF (who I'd also describe as a dependent guard). To try making JW into something he's not would only lower his chances of success. He needs to defend hard as he can. Stick his nose in and rebound both of those things he can do. And hit the open jumpers when the ball finds him. They aren't going to run a ton of plays for him to come off screens but when they do he needs to do that well.

I just hope that with the Spurs drafting him that that's what they have envisioned for him and his role. Because if they were hoping for a D Wade type of ball handling dominant 2 guard type then they'd be sorely mistaken. He's not that. He's going to have nights where the ball finds him and he shoots well and he can get 15 pts and 3 or 4 three pointers. But he's going to have games where it doesn't and he's defended well and he doesn't. But if he's forcing a defense to be up on him and pay attention to him that is also doing his job and has value. So here's to hoping he doesn't get frustrated and hopefully has some better games the rest of the summer league.
 

Fryowa

Administrator
People need to temper their expectations of college players coming out of non blue blood schools. It’s the Mitch King Effect.

Love Garza but most NBA regulars the same age as him have three years pro experience already. It is what it is. He’s permanently behind the curve. I do love that they got drafted and get a chance to chase their dreams
 

Hawkfnntn

Well-Known Member
People need to temper their expectations of college players coming out of non blue blood schools. It’s the Mitch King Effect.

Love Garza but most NBA regulars the same age as him have three years pro experience already. It is what it is. He’s permanently behind the curve. I do love that they got drafted and get a chance to chase their dreams
Yup. I'm afraid fans are going to see Garza and JW not exactly tearing it up in the NBA and not understand it. Their games are going to be so different at how they can play it'll be tough to recognize em.

Garza posted up almost 50% of the time he got a touch for Iowa. He'll be lucky to get a handful of those a game now depending on how many mins he even gets. He's a high post/pick and pop stretch 5 in the NBA. He'll get more touches in the paint from offensive rebounds then he will post ups.

JWs production will be really sporadic. He's just not going to get many touches in the half court O since he's not a ball handler. So taking advantage of the ones he gets and playing well within the rest of the game are what'll make him stick in the league.
 

MelroseHawkins

Well-Known Member
I saw on the Detroit Pistons summer league roster that Garza weighs less than Cook. They are playing on ESPN tonight, Aug. 10 at 8:00 p.m. CT, I believe. Says 9:00 on the site which I presume is ET.

 

Fryowa

Administrator
Garza posted up almost 50% of the time he got a touch for Iowa. He'll be lucky to get a handful of those a game now depending on how many mins he even gets. He's a high post/pick and pop stretch 5 in the NBA. He'll get more touches in the paint from offensive rebounds then he will post ups.
Careful, @trj will be here shortly to tell you you're an idiot because the NBA doesn't play the post game anymore.

I mean I know it doesn't make any sense to say that, but...well...
 

trj

Well-Known Member
Careful, @trj will be here shortly to tell you you're an idiot because the NBA doesn't play the post game anymore.

I mean I know it doesn't make any sense to say that, but...well...


Don't be a dick, man. Giannis Antetokoumpo and Deandre Ayton just showed us that there is still a need for play in the paint. There are roles for big men that can't operate in space, not many, but there are some. Never said otherwise.

You can try to clown me with these bullshit shots that you are taking.....really don't care. You have watched a few Summer league games, now you are a NBA expert.....congrats. Just pay the $30 to the children's hospital for JW going pro.
 
Last edited:

Fryowa

Administrator
Don't be a dick, man. Giannis Antetokoumpo and Deandre Ayton just showed us that there is still a need for play in the paint. There are roles for big men that can't operate in space, not many, but there are some. Never said otherwise.
Hahahahaha, you were the one who started “clowning” me with “bullshit shots” yesterday, or did you need me to go quote it? Lol.

All I did was mention the lack of a post up game in the NBA and you went off on a mini tirade. I mean, I get it that people say dumb stuff when they’re a little drunk, but at least own you to it.

And thanks for reminding me about the donation, I believe in fairness that my post about that said that someone needed to remind me because I’d forget. So gold star for you, lover.
 

HaydenHawk56

Well-Known Member
I suspect, if it were not for the money, both of these guys could have used another year at Iowa to grow more. Though, I was actually impressed with Garza's play in the last game I watched all things considered.
 

Hawkfnntn

Well-Known Member
I saw on the Detroit Pistons summer league roster that Garza weighs less than Cook. They are playing on ESPN tonight, Aug. 10 at 8:00 p.m. CT, I believe. Says 9:00 on the site which I presume is ET.

He looked dang good too. Garza can score on guys he just can. He made his FTs and just had a hell of a game for him. His D was what it'll always be so it is what it is. But man he's just a joy to watch. He showed everything. Hit a 3 at the top of the key. Got bucket on an offensive rebound on pure hustle. Had that post move where he did his baby Dirk fadeaway in the lane after putting the ball on the floor a few times. It's so fun to watch him do his thing out there.

Cook did ok too hit his FTs and had a couple buckets. I'm not sure he's making a great case for himself to make that team again or not but he's not playing poorly. It's just going to be tough for him since he can't shoot outside the lane. I don't think he's even attempted a shot outside of it yet in these games.

JW showed the mix bag of his game. He hit a couple 3s but shot 3-9 overall. He had 5 boards and a couple assists. But I saw him try to dribble drive a couple times and he turned it over and took a terrible shot on another. That just isn't his strength and he can't create for himself like that. His plus/minus for the game was a team worst -22 if you're into that kind of stat.... ouch
 

Hawkfnntn

Well-Known Member
Garza has a better chance than JW, IMO. Garza wont need as much help playing defense in the paint as JW will at the 3 line.

I hope they both find a landing spot and play for a decade. That would be great for Iowa.
Yeah Garzas got a more complete offensive game. JW can't create for himself and it really has shown the last few games. He can be effective when he can catch and shoot in rhythm. But if he's got to put the ball on the floor a few times he's going to struggle. He has to either improve at that or be more conscious of it and not force it. Yeah neither will be defensive stoppers either. I hope the same thing they don't have to be All stars to stick around and make a nice career for themselves.
 

MelroseHawkins

Well-Known Member
He looked dang good too. Garza can score on guys he just can. He made his FTs and just had a hell of a game for him. His D was what it'll always be so it is what it is. But man he's just a joy to watch. He showed everything. Hit a 3 at the top of the key. Got bucket on an offensive rebound on pure hustle. Had that post move where he did his baby Dirk fadeaway in the lane after putting the ball on the floor a few times. It's so fun to watch him do his thing out there.

Cook did ok too hit his FTs and had a couple buckets. I'm not sure he's making a great case for himself to make that team again or not but he's not playing poorly. It's just going to be tough for him since he can't shoot outside the lane. I don't think he's even attempted a shot outside of it yet in these games.

JW showed the mix bag of his game. He hit a couple 3s but shot 3-9 overall. He had 5 boards and a couple assists. But I saw him try to dribble drive a couple times and he turned it over and took a terrible shot on another. That just isn't his strength and he can't create for himself like that. His plus/minus for the game was a team worst -22 if you're into that kind of stat.... ouch
Garza was just Garza. Nobody is going to outwork him. He is so dedicated and works harder than anyone at achieving his goals. He ran the court well and just did what he does. I noticed the team really respond to him. It seemed when they made their run in the 2nd half, he was a key component of it. He was becoming a leader on the floor pulling players to talk. I noticed the coach took him out at about the 6-7 mark in the 4th Q to give him a breather to come in at the 4 mark to finish the game. That is a good sign. He's just a gritty good player. Let's not forget that nice assist he had.

I actually think he'll do Ok when posting up on occasion as in the NBA there seems to be a lot more spacing as a team can't really collapse on a guy or use more players. You really can't leave a player free in the NBA. I noticed all the room/spacing.
 

Hawkfnntn

Well-Known Member
Garza was just Garza. Nobody is going to outwork him. He is so dedicated and works harder than anyone at achieving his goals. He ran the court well and just did what he does. I noticed the team really respond to him. It seemed when they made their run in the 2nd half, he was a key component of it. He was becoming a leader on the floor pulling players to talk. I noticed the coach took him out at about the 6-7 mark in the 4th Q to give him a breather to come in at the 4 mark to finish the game. That is a good sign. He's just a gritty good player. Let's not forget that nice assist he had.

I actually think he'll do Ok when posting up on occasion as in the NBA there seems to be a lot more spacing as a team can't really collapse on a guy or use more players. You really can't leave a player free in the NBA. I noticed all the room/spacing.
YES!! That was very pretty backdoor bounce pass. Perfect timing he set it up nicely and put it right on the money. Plays like that will also be what endears him to not only the coaches but teammates.
 
I

Ian Pike Hammer

Guest
Garza was just Garza. Nobody is going to outwork him. He is so dedicated and works harder than anyone at achieving his goals. He ran the court well and just did what he does. I noticed the team really respond to him. It seemed when they made their run in the 2nd half, he was a key component of it. He was becoming a leader on the floor pulling players to talk. I noticed the coach took him out at about the 6-7 mark in the 4th Q to give him a breather to come in at the 4 mark to finish the game. That is a good sign. He's just a gritty good player. Let's not forget that nice assist he had.

I actually think he'll do Ok when posting up on occasion as in the NBA there seems to be a lot more spacing as a team can't really collapse on a guy or use more players. You really can't leave a player free in the NBA. I noticed all the room/spacing.
A good coach will play him within his strengths, down low! Let Garza be an old-time center and buck the trend. If you absolutely need a bucket, feed the beast!
As far as JW, IMHO, he better step it up NOW. In the NBA, you may only touch the ball 1 time or not at all in a possession. When you get it you,d better be prepared to do something good with it, cause it may not come back. SA needs 2 give him more time, or else he gone.
 

Hawkfnntn

Well-Known Member
A good coach will play him within his strengths, down low! Let Garza be an old-time center and buck the trend. If you absolutely need a bucket, feed the beast!
As far as JW, IMHO, he better step it up NOW. In the NBA, you may only touch the ball 1 time or not at all in a possession. When you get it you,d better be prepared to do something good with it, cause it may not come back. SA needs 2 give him more time, or else he gone.
Yeah the thing is how many touches do you give him on the block? Most of their O (and most teams) revolve around pick and rolls at the top of the key and reacting to how the D plays them. I think he'll get a few in the course of a game but he just won't get nearly the volume of them he'd used to. He'll be used differently now and it's a good thing he can shoot 3s because that'll be what keeps him around more then anything besides his overall hustle.

If JW doesn't shoot well his days could be numbered. That's where his bread will be buttered. If he was drafted to be anything other then a Kyle Korver style catch and shoot 3 specialist then that's poor scouting on their part. He's a dependent guard that can't dribble drive and create his own shot or for others. That's just not his thing. He's gotta space the floor and occasionally cut off the ball and have teammates find him. Beyond that he's not a defensive stopper either. He can rebound and hustle here and there but lots of guys can do what he does in regards to that. It's his 3 pt shooting that'll keep him around but he has to shoot better then he has so far.
 

dahlhawk

Well-Known Member
JW should have come back I think he got bad advice to go pro. His just doesn't have good handles, something he never has had at Iowa. He had that two week stretch where he was hitting everything and at the top of his game before his injury. Such a tough break right before the Big tourney where I thought he had a shot at a MVP. His game is solid in transition and shooting but his drives are not his strength. I think Garza is just too damm marketable not to make the team. Plus his drive is unquestioned. He will be a top player by his 3 year in the pros.
 
I

Ian Pike Hammer

Guest
Yeah the thing is how many touches do you give him on the block? Most of their O (and most teams) revolve around pick and rolls at the top of the key and reacting to how the D plays them. I think he'll get a few in the course of a game but he just won't get nearly the volume of them he'd used to. He'll be used differently now and it's a good thing he can shoot 3s because that'll be what keeps him around more then anything besides his overall hustle.

If JW doesn't shoot well his days could be numbered. That's where his bread will be buttered. If he was drafted to be anything other then a Kyle Korver style catch and shoot 3 specialist then that's poor scouting on their part. He's a dependent guard that can't dribble drive and create his own shot or for others. That's just not his thing. He's gotta space the floor and occasionally cut off the ball and have teammates find him. Beyond that he's not a defensive stopper either. He can rebound and hustle here and there but lots of guys can do what he does in regards to that. It's his 3 pt shooting that'll keep him around but he has to shoot better then he has so far.
Right now it looks like he has to prove he,s an upgraded on the 10th, 11th, and 12th guys at the end of the bench, or cheaper to keep, otherwise why bother
 
I

Ian Pike Hammer

Guest
Weisy bounced back w. 17 points 2night in 28 minutes, but was poor shooting again , 3-9 from beyond. Had 7 rebs n 2 dimes, n2 fouls. Gotta help some I,d guess.
 

Hawkfnntn

Well-Known Member
Weisy bounced back w. 17 points 2night in 28 minutes, but was poor shooting again , 3-9 from beyond. Had 7 rebs n 2 dimes, n2 fouls. Gotta help some I,d guess.
Yeah 6-13 overall anyway isn't bad. Those 7 rbs were 2nd most on the team so he's working hard at that. Had a +1 for his plus minus stat and they won by that. Which is a huge improvement over what he had been. Guys are taking him off the dribble quite a bit. But he's hanging tough I'm confident he'll make the team
 

Hawkfnntn

Well-Known Member
Right now it looks like he has to prove he,s an upgraded on the 10th, 11th, and 12th guys at the end of the bench, or cheaper to keep, otherwise why bother
Yeah he's a specialist of sorts. If he's not going to be good at that and others can do everything else better then it becomes tougher to make those decisions on guys. I'm not sure what % they are hoping he shoots. I don't think 46% like he did last yr is realistic at this level but over 40% for sure I would think.
 
Top