hawkfarmer
Well-Known Member
Bush league
Jose Reyes batting title...
- Thread starter ElleHawks
- Start date
tm3308
Well-Known Member
You're misreading what I said. If he HAD played the entire game, and left the park without the crown, then he didn't deserve it in the first place. But he didn't take that chance.
It's bush league, no two ways about it.
HawkeyeMike23
Banned
Hopefully no one, I'd like to think everyone here realizes what a worthless stat they are.
HawkeyeMike23
Banned
No it's not. A single is a better outcome for the batter than a ground out no matter the situation. What's the difference between a game winning grand slam and a solo home run that cuts the deficit to 4-2? Whether or not the guys ahead of you get on base. It doesn't have anything to do with how successful the batter is during his at bat.
tm3308
Well-Known Member
Better for the batter, sure. But the run is better for the team. The batting title is a solely individual award. You don't have to depend on anyone else to win it. But that doesn't make you the most productive offensive player in the league.
Just because a guy has guys in front of him who get on base doesn't make the guy a good hitter by default. But guys like Braun/Kemp/Pujols/etc. are better players than Reyes because while they hit for power, they also hit for high average. Meaning that they aren't just a bunch of brutes who rake RBI because they get a bazillion chances to do so. They can hit. Reyes wouldn't get 100+ RBI hitting in the middle of the order because he doesn't hit for power. He can hit for average, but that's it. His slugging percentage is as high as it is because he hits a lot of triples, which are more about hit placement and speed than power.
HawkeyeMike23
Banned
Do you really think I'm saying Jose Reyes is the most productive player in the league? I'm only talking about how RBI's are a terrible stat to use to measure how prodcutive any given player is.
tm3308
Well-Known Member
Fair enough, though I think that could stand to be tweaked a little. RBI is a pretty good measure of how productive a hitter is, but it's not a good indicator of how good of a hitter he is. There's a big difference between the two. Ryan Howard has obviously been one of the most productive hitters in the last 5 years or so. But he's far from being the best hitter from that same time frame.
ssckelley
Well-Known Member
RBI is a worthless stat?????
To me it is more valuable than the amount of home runs a guy has or batting average. I would much rather have a guy that can drive in runs over someone that hits an occasional solo homerun or can only hit when no on is on base.
tm3308
Well-Known Member
It is worthless in that it doesn't tell you a guy is a good hitter. Obviously having guys who can drive in runs is a necessity. But Ryan Howard/Adam Dunn/etc. are not good hitters. They hit for power, and that's it. The guys like Pujols/Kemp/Votto/etc. are good hitters, because they hit for power AND high average. Which is why they tend to put up high RBI totals.
But Howard is a product of having Rollins, Victorino, Utley, and Polanco all hitting in front of him at some point or another.
ssckelley
Well-Known Member
It is rare but I have seen guys who were not high average or power hitters but would get good RBI numbers because they hit well with runners in scoring position.
Billy Butler is a good example of this. Not much power (19 hrs) with just a decent average (.291) but drove in 95 runs because he hit .317 with runners in scoring postion. On any decent team he has well over a 100 RBI's. Another guy is Michael Young only 11 Hrs but had 106 RBIs due to a .377 average with runners in scoring position.
You are right about Howard, on a bad team he would not even get to 100 RBI's. Ever since he had that huge year in 2006 his numbers have been slipping, especially the last 2 years. His OPS was only .835 this year which is one of the worst for a cleanup hitter. Adam Dunn? LMAO!!!
In Jose Reyes case his job is different. You are not going to look at his RBI totals but how many runs he scores along with his on base percentage. His job is to get on base in front of those RBI hitters.
tm3308
Well-Known Member
Agreed, and Reyes does his job very well. But that doesn't make him the most productive offensive player in the NL, which is what the OP was saying. It makes him a good leadoff hitter.
