uofihawkInation
Well-Known Member
IMO, he is fine with what he did. The Mets weren't playing for anything and I'm sure most of the people there wanted to see Reyes win the title. Congrats to him for having a good year.
Jose Reyes batting title...
- Thread starter ElleHawks
- Start date
deanvogs
Well-Known Member
What, I'm not sure what you are trying to say....I am saying that the Mets are a better team with Reyes at SS. Reyes put his individual goals of winning the batting title over the goal of winning the game.
hawkeyescott
Well-Known Member
Nevermind I read it wrong.
tm3308
Well-Known Member
He sure wasn't playing for his team yesterday. He got himself on base once. And then he takes his deadly speed off the basebaths. He did next to nothing to help his team yesterday. He put himself above the team.
And in no way did he help his team offensively more than any other player in the NL this year. I can name a bunch of guys off the top of my head who did more:
Braun
Fielder
Pujols
Kemp
Votto
Berkman
CarGo
Tulo
Reyes gets hits and has speed. That's it. He doesn't hit homeruns, he doesn't drive in runs.
atxhawk
Well-Known Member
I think Matt Kemp in LA would have a pretty solid argument here.
deanvogs
Well-Known Member
I get it, you want to make a point of bashing playing "not to lose". You are using the that Reyes won the batting title to try to "prove a point" about KF....You think it is the same, I don't see it that way, lets just get KF otta this thread at this point......
tm3308
Well-Known Member
I'm not trying to bash the Captain.
tm3308
Well-Known Member
No, that's not what I'm doing. But I figured it might make the point about REYES a little more clear if I used KF as a comparison, since that's a topic that comes up frequently.
I'll try a different analogy: If you're going 30mph over the speed limit, you're speeding. If you're going 1 mph over the speed limit, guess what? You're still speeding. You won't get pulled over for it, because in reality it's not a big deal (like an individual award). But the principle still applies. You're still speeding.
Section136
Well-Known Member
Great point, certianly leads to great discussion.
It is nonsense that you think just because he led the league in batting average that he helped his team on offense more than any other player in the NL.
OBP, Slugging, OPS and RBI are stats that are way more important than batting average.
I don't think he was the without question best and it's my fault for not stating that. Just like I don't think OBP, slugging, OPS, and RBI are WAY more important. Without a runner on base many of those stats, while still would exist, would be far lesser.
Did his team let him and the fans down because they didn't drive him in more?
tm3308
Well-Known Member
Half of the guys I listed scored as many or more runs than Reyes, too. He wasn't the best offensive player in the NL. Not even close.
That's his job. While we are tying this to football, undoubtedly because there is a void in all of our lives this week, how about this....Marcus Coker just runs the ball. That's it. He doesn't throw TD's, he doesn't catch TD's.
ssckelley
Well-Known Member
Let's step back and look at this from his point of view instead of as a fan. As a fan we watch the games to be entertained and want our players to play all out, to entertain us. To a player it is much more than just a game, it is how they make their living. His agent negotiates his contracts based on his performance, winning a batting title probably is going to pay him millions. The Mets were playing for absolutely nothing, everything that happened in that game only affected individual performance. The one thing I hate about sports is once your team is out of the playoff picture you still have to play out the season. The only reason why I still watch any of the games is because I want to see those prospects play, they are the ones still playing as if there is something on the line. I do not enjoy watching someone like Aramis Ramirez pad his stats in games that mean nothing when he tanked the rest of the year. I would rather watch the young guys who are fighting for a job play the game.
Don't give me this Ted Williams played for the team crap!!! Ted Williams played in an era where there was not free agency and you basically took whatever the owners would pay you. If you had millions of dollars riding on your next contract would you do the same thing? Call me a horrible person but I would as my family comes before what anyone else thinks of me.
Don't give me this Ted Williams played for the team crap!!! Ted Williams played in an era where there was not free agency and you basically took whatever the owners would pay you. If you had millions of dollars riding on your next contract would you do the same thing? Call me a horrible person but I would as my family comes before what anyone else thinks of me.
HawkeyeMike23
Banned
RBIs are even more meaningless than batting average.
I don't have a big problem with this, it is a little weak but the Mets game was completely meaningless for them. But this has been done plenty of times before, Ty Cobb did the same thing two years in a row.
How Ty Cobb, Nap Lajoie, a grudge-holding manager, a - 09.20.10 - SI Vault
1977Hawkeye
Well-Known Member
I think pulling yourself to protect a batting title is cowardly, but IMO this whole thing is being blown a bit out of proportion. And if the Mets' fans want to see Reyes move on because of it, then fine, but hopefully they realize that .337 hitters don't grow on trees.
If Reyes taking himself out of the game is cheating the fans, then by that logic, he can never have a day off because he would be cheating the fans who came out to the park to see him play.
But still a cowardly move. Man up and play the game instead of sitting out to protect your lead. But this is not the first time in the history of the game this type of thing has happened.
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Section136
Well-Known Member
Why do you think that?
tm3308
Well-Known Member
So what if that's his job? Ryan Theriot's job is to be an energy guy, hustle at all times, be scrappy, drop a sac bunt down when necessary, etc. That doesn't make him the game's best offensive player this year.
And comparing Reyes to Coker is flat out ridiculous. Football and baseball are two completely different sports.
Who said that Williams was or wasn't playing for the team when he refused to sit out that day? That's not the main crux of the argument here. Reyes' free agent contract wasn't going to be affected if he lost the batting crown by 2 points. When you hit .337, you hit .337. That's going to make serious bank no matter what Braun does. So don't give me THAT.
Williams was by most accounts an a** with a lot of pride. He was too arrogant to get .400 by taking a shortcut. He wanted to prove he deserved it. And he did.
If you can't play out the final game and still walk away with the batting title, then you didn't deserve it in the first place. Reyes deprived us of the answer to that question.
