Jose Reyes batting title...

[tm3308]

I think if Jose would have at least stayed on base and got pulled during the end of the inning this might not be as blown up as much as it has

That, and it's a little different when he and Braun were basically tied going into the day (they were separated by what, like .0003?). If he'd had the lead by a few points coming in, people might not be quite as upset.

 

[HawkeyeMike23]

Why do you think that?

Because they're basically just a measure of how good the hitters in front of you are at getting on base.

 

[Section136]

Because they're basically just a measure of how good the hitters in front of you are at getting on base.

Haha....or a measure of how good of a hitter in clutch spots someone is.

 

[HawkeyeMike23]

Haha....or a measure of how good of a hitter in clutch spots someone is. Give me a big RBI guy over a high average guy any day of the week.

No it's really not that. As someone who was bashing someone for using batting average as a key stat you should know better than to claim RBIs are a good measure of a hitter's ability.

 

[tm3308]

Because they're basically just a measure of how good the hitters in front of you are at getting on base.

And runs scored aren't a measure of how good the hitters behind you are? It all comes together.

But Reyes, in comparison to Braun and Kemp (the two favorites for MVP):

Higher batting average (barely over Braun)
-Reyes .337/Braun .332/Kemp .324

Fewer runs scored
-Kemp 115/Braun 109/Reyes 101

Lower OBP
-Kemp .399/Braun .397/Reyes .384

Lower Slugging%
-Braun .597/Kemp .586/Reyes .493

Fewer RBI
-Kemp 126/Braun 111/Reyes 44

Stolen bases
-Kemp 40/Reyes 39/Braun 33

Homeruns
-Kemp 39/Braun 33/Reyes 7

Walks
-Kemp 74/Braun 58/Reyes 43

He just doesn't stack up offensively against Braun or Kemp. Reyes was good, but hardly the best offensive player in the NL. Not even close.

 

[EddyP]

More On Reyes' Batting Title

"I respect whatever decision he decided to make, and ultimately he left the door open for me," Braun said before the Brewers' 7-3 win over Pittsburgh. "I know it's not impossible. I've gotten three hits in a game plenty of times. It's still attainable, still a possibility. If he had stayed in the game and gotten multiple hits, it would not have been a possibility at all. I respect whatever decision he decided to make, and I'm not really here to judge him."

From Braun's perspective it gave him a chance. If Reyes would have went 3-4 or 4-4 it would have been over. Braun went 0-4 so it really doesn't matter. I do think it was a chicken bleep move by Reyes but a little too much is probably being made of it.

 

[Section136]

No it's really not that. As someone who was bashing someone for using batting average as a key stat you should know better than to claim RBIs are a good measure of a hitter's ability.

I never said RBI's are a good way to measure a hitters ability. I said RBI's are more important than batting average. Its all about run production.

 

[tm3308]

More On Reyes' Batting Title

"I respect whatever decision he decided to make, and ultimately he left the door open for me," Braun said before the Brewers' 7-3 win over Pittsburgh. "I know it's not impossible. I've gotten three hits in a game plenty of times. It's still attainable, still a possibility. If he had stayed in the game and gotten multiple hits, it would not have been a possibility at all. I respect whatever decision he decided to make, and I'm not really here to judge him."

From Braun's perspective it gave him a chance. If Reyes would have went 3-4 or 4-4 it would have been over. Braun went 0-4 so it really doesn't matter. I do think it was a chicken bleep move by Reyes but a little too much is probably being made of it.

Why would Braun have a problem, though? Either Reyes was going to b*tch out and give Braun a chance (a good thing for Braun), or he wouldn't and would do what you SHOULD do (and there would be no reason for Braun to complain in that instance, either).

Braun's never been a guy to talk trash in the media. He took the high road in the matter. But he also went 0-4, so it didn't matter anyway.

 

[HawkeyeMike23]

I never said RBI's are a good way to measure a hitters ability. I said RBI's are more important than batting average. Its all about run production.

So you would consider grounding into a double play with no outs and the bases loaded but scoring a run a better at bat than getting a single with nobody on base?

 

[hawkfaninTX]

I think pulling yourself to protect a batting title is cowardly, but IMO this whole thing is being blown a bit out of proportion. And if the Mets' fans want to see Reyes move on because of it, then fine, but hopefully they realize that .337 hitters don't grow on trees.

If Reyes taking himself out of the game is cheating the fans, then by that logic, he can never have a day off because he would be cheating the fans who came out to the park to see him play.

But still a cowardly move. Man up and play the game instead of sitting out to protect your lead. But this is not the first time in the history of the game this type of thing has happened.

they do in contract years in this case.... have you seen what his other years look like?

 

[tm3308]

So you would consider grounding into a double play with no outs and the bases loaded but scoring a run a better at bat than getting a single with nobody on base?

That's just one scenario out of many. A sac fly with no outs is better than a bases empty single with 2 outs. And a 2-out double that scores two runs is better than any bases empty hit.

Singles hitters have an important role in baseball. But without guys who hit for average AND power, the guys like Reyes don't score nearly as much. The guys who hit for average and power can still generate runs without guys like Reyes, just not as many. You drive in a run with every HR. Single hitters HAVE to rely on the other hitters to generate runs.

 

[hawkfaninTX]

So you would consider grounding into a double play with no outs and the bases loaded but scoring a run a better at bat than getting a single with nobody on base?

if the game was tied or down by one, then yes..... wouldnt you?

 

[Section136]

So you would consider grounding into a double play with no outs and the bases loaded but scoring a run a better at bat than getting a single with nobody on base?

You wouldnt get an RBI for that.

 

[HawkeyeMike23]

if the game was tied or down by one, then yes..... wouldnt you?

Absolutely not. You can only control your at bat, getting a single is better than grounding out, that's not debatable. RBI's basically just measure how well your teammates get on base.

If you want to make an argument that Ryan Howard is a top six player in baseball or better than Ryan Braun or Jose Bautista, I'll gladly sit back and listen.

 

[Section136]

If you want to make an argument that Ryan Howard is a top six player in baseball or better than Ryan Braun or Jose Bautista, I'll gladly sit back and listen.

Who made the argument that whatever player has the most RBI's is the best baseball player?

 

[ElleHawks]

And runs scored aren't a measure of how good the hitters behind you are? It all comes together.

But Reyes, in comparison to Braun and Kemp (the two favorites for MVP):

Higher batting average (barely over Braun)
-Reyes .337/Braun .332/Kemp .324

Fewer runs scored
-Kemp 115/Braun 109/Reyes 101

Lower OBP
-Kemp .399/Braun .397/Reyes .384

Lower Slugging%
-Braun .597/Kemp .586/Reyes .493

Fewer RBI
-Kemp 126/Braun 111/Reyes 44

Stolen bases
-Kemp 40/Reyes 39/Braun 33

Homeruns
-Kemp 39/Braun 33/Reyes 7

Walks
-Kemp 74/Braun 58/Reyes 43

He just doesn't stack up offensively against Braun or Kemp. Reyes was good, but hardly the best offensive player in the NL. Not even close.

Strike outs
-Kemp 159/Braun 93/Reyes 41

How many times do you think he came up with RISP this year compared to the other two?

 

[tm3308]

Absolutely not. You can only control your at bat, getting a single is better than grounding out, that's not debatable. RBI's basically just measure how well your teammates get on base.

If you want to make an argument that Ryan Howard is a top six player in baseball or better than Ryan Braun or Jose Bautista, I'll gladly sit back and listen.

It's all about the situation. A groundout that scores a run in the 9th inning of a tie ball game is better than a 2-out hit with no one on in the 6th inning of a blowout.

There are plenty of situations where RBI don't really mean much. But there are also plenty of times where a single doesn't mean a whole lot, either.

 

[tm3308]

Strike outs
-Kemp 159/Braun 93/Reyes 41

How many times do you think he came up with RISP this year compared to the other two?

So what? If he could bring power to the table, he'd hit in the middle of the order, too. They steal bases at pretty much the same rate, they all had similar batting averages. Braun and Kemp both scored more runs than Reyes.

They both bring MUCH more to the table offensively than does Reyes. You'd be a fool to argue otherwise. High average, high power, good steal numbers, higher OBP/OPS. Reyes brings high average and steals.

 

[theantiAIRBHG]

I personally think the best offensive player in the league is Adam Dunn.

 

[ssckelley]

Who said that Williams was or wasn't playing for the team when he refused to sit out that day? That's not the main crux of the argument here. Reyes' free agent contract wasn't going to be affected if he lost the batting crown by 2 points. When you hit .337, you hit .337. That's going to make serious bank no matter what Braun does. So don't give me THAT.

Being a batting champion sure the heck does make a difference in contract negotiations. Records like that stay with you the rest of your career.

If you can't play out the final game and still walk away with the batting title, then you didn't deserve it in the first place. Reyes deprived us of the answer to that question.

Sure he does, he got the highest percentage of hits out his at bats then anyone else in the league. He took himself out of a meaningless game where had he not been going for the batting crown may not have even played in anyway.