MiniMoeHawk
Well-Known Member
Can you put "ferments" on banned list like you did "chad" and "ostrich" ???
Would love to see that garbage thrown out. Thanks!
Would love to see that garbage thrown out. Thanks!
Jon....you have some explaining to do
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All the little whiners came back out of the wood work Saturday. Just like cockroaches when you turn the lights off.
You like scoring 10 points a game?
InGoodCo
Well-Known Member
Scoring 10 points was pathetic. I had higher hopes for this offense. A LOT of dropped passes on Saturday. The team is not executing - that's on the coaches too. I hate Iowa is having a down year, but again, last 2 years have been above average. Not that unexpected for this program historically. If we don't see big improvement the next 2 seasons, we will definitely have something to get upset about.
HawkGold
Well-Known Member
Another negative post? You kind of stuck your toe in the bath water. Luv the way you say it. It's first on the players and bit on the coaches.
Last year was an above average year for a 20 year coach? How paradoxical is that. There is meaning in that statement.
InGoodCo
Well-Known Member
It's a team game - I put the blame in a lot of places. - 10 points is pathetic. The players and the Coaches would say that. It's not getting it done. I am not happy about losing. Never have been. I don't always have to be positive - especially after a pretty bad weekend. But... I always have the perspective to see that while Iowa has lows, it's not as dire or low as some of their peers during down seasons. 8 wins and 2nd place in the division will always be an above average season for Iowa IMO.
I do think that since the playoffs were implemented that that should have been the new goal. I thought that our scheduling should be reflecting that and everything that they work towards should be getting to it. It sure as heck shouldn't be treated as the afterthought/bonus the coaches seem to treat it as. I don't want to hear winning the west as our goal because that would be a byproduct of having gotten to the playoffs. Yes winning the division/conference are goals but getting to the playoffs is what matters right? I'm not saying that's a realistic every year thing but that shouldn't make it any less of a goal. No more then getting to the final 4 in hoops is.
HawkGold
Well-Known Member
But you are very cautious about where you place the blame in order.
InGoodCo
Well-Known Member
I'm disappointed in the team this year. Why is it bad to be? Iowa fans should be IMO. That's only human nature. I don't get what you are after, but feel free to explain.
HawkGold
Well-Known Member
In my sometimes wrong opinion (ask my wife), you've been a tad harsh on those a few steps ahead of you. That's all. Will say I'm not that disappointed as I could see it coming. The surprise was 16.
That said, I do think the football team has a sound foundation. We aren't going to get blown out often though that may be coming. I've seen KF teams and an occasional HF team roll over and die at the end of a disappointing season. Several guys have NFL careers ahead of them and they need to think of that and likely will. A bit concerned will give Nebby something to brag about this year.
That said, I still haven't changed my mind that KF is a bit (maybe more) abusive in some ways. He owes it to Wadley to quit sending headlong into brick walls. And I agreed with the announcer last year outback. There are other things, but I'll stop at that.
I was blessed with multiple sons as hs athletes and quite good. One was the best player on the field for both teams and played on a very bad team. He was like a golf ball sitting on a tee. You become a target. A Rob was a target. CJ was a target (of his own choice I might add). Wadley is a target.
Jewell will either be avoided or be a target. Those guys are among the best on the field of any game. Many of the other players can't hurt an opponent very bad.
First off, the old Jon would have banned you a long time ago
Kirk may be a lot of things, stubborn being one of them, but lazy, he is not. You are misconstruing a lack of results at recruiting for a lack of effort. In my lifetime, Iowa has never consistently brought in mid-high level WR talent on a regular basis. That's not to say there wasn't a willie guy here and there, who had the accolades...but that has been incredibly uncommon at Iowa in the Fry and Ferentz era.
I think they have some good playmakers on campus, right now. It's just going to take some seasoning.
The money thing is so freaking old. The people who donate the sums to pay for his salary wouldn't do so if they didn't like him there. Kirk is a beloved figure among most of the fanbase, especially the big money people. So when you say 'OUR' expense, you have a mouse in your pocket...because it's not really YOUR expense at all.
Does Kirk's salary only come from the big money boosters?
InGoodCo
Well-Known Member
I got no issues with negative posters, or constructive criticism. I have issues with blatant agenda's that aren't true. Calling KF's a 6-6 coach for example on the heels of 4 seasons of better records. Saying that running the ball has always been an issue for Iowa. I don't feel that. It's my opinion. I was expecting a better season then 6-6 this year, so I am disappointed.
HawkGold
Well-Known Member
Of course running the ball hasn't always been an issue. However, it is fairly often an issue. Ironically 2 of KFs best years were dismal running years.
InGoodCo
Well-Known Member
Was running the ball an issue the last 2 seasons? I don't see how you can be that upset or tired of something that's been pretty good recently. Also, the Oline lost 2 5 year senior tackles and are now starting 2 Freshman in their place. I feel like there's gotta be something to that and instead of saying "this is an on going issue"... i don't feel that's fair. So, I call it out.
HawkGold
Well-Known Member
Yes, I get that, but I'll call you out implying that it isn't an issue. I do think CJ was a part of the reason for running success in 16.
All teams are starting Freshmen now. Is it a problem...of course. However, the play calling has to cover hat. As I said, 2 of KFs best years were with terrible running games. Those years are long passed. I do think it's completely fair to say the running game is oft a problem with KF. I think that any year where a team rushes under 140 yards per game as a weak running game year unless they are pass happy.
KF has had 8 years below 140 and 6 years below 130 and about 5 under 100 I think. (not sure about the last one).
That is a problem.
InGoodCo
Well-Known Member
I didn't say it wasn't issue. I said, it's NOT always an issue. Iowa has run the ball pretty well that last few seasons. This year is obviously a struggle. Alot of your post seem to signify that this is a 20 year problem with the program. That's what I take issue with. Historically - Iowa has very good Oline play. I am not happy about this season, we can agree on that.
HawkInATX
Well-Known Member
A few definitions to clear up the mire...
Hope: a feeling of expectation and desire for a certain thing to happen.
Predict: say or estimate that (a specified thing) will happen in the future or will be a consequence of something.
We hope to play for an NC every year. I think we can safely say KF does, too. If you think any differently then you do not at all understand the mentality that ALL coaches at D1 and D2 schools have. Here is where you can argue things rationally in terms of hope - Is KF the right coach to give you a chance to realize (read: expect) this hope once in a generation? Semi-regularly? Regularly? Is BF the right OC to realize these hopes? Do we have the players/talent/experience on this roster currently to realize this hope? The answers to these questions would then feed into our expectations, but would not change our hopes. Jon did not speak to hopes in his podcast, therefore I think we can safely say that, at minimum, we do not know that he hopes for 6-6. Also, a hope is a feeling, not a statement of fact.
Now, we get to predictions. These are estimations of a specific nature for what will happen in the future given current conditions. Jon was predicting 6-6, not hoping for 6-6. He even went through an entire spiel about what it would take for Iowa to still win a B1G championship. Sounds like he wants, hopes for, desires better than 6-6. We all do.
There are ~130 teams currently playing for a D1 national championship. Using the most liberal definition of a national championship (including ties and different poll results as individual champions) only 44 different schools have EVER won a D1 (or D1 equivalent) national championship since 1869. And seven of those schools are not even FBS teams any longer (Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Cornell, Penn, Chicago, Lafayette) This means that of the 130 teams, only 38 have ever won a championship. Iowa is one of those 38. Iowa is one of only 6 Big Ten teams to ever win a national championship (while in the Big Ten, so PSU would not count, but Chicago does) Since 1999 when Kirk Ferentz took over, only 11 different teams have one a national championship. 11 out of 130. Those schools? Alabama (4), Auburn (1), Ohio State (2), Texas (1), USC (2), LSU (2), Clemson (1), Florida (2), Florida State (2), Oklahoma (1), Miami (1). Only 2 schools and three champions since 1999 have come from north of the Mason-Dixon Line. Four schools and 9 champions from the SEC alone. Random odds that a B1G school wins a championship since 1999, given B1G success = 11.1%. Odds that any one team in the nation wins a championship since 1999, given purely random selection = 14.8%. And yet you want us to EXPECT to win an NC or compete for one every year when even given the best odds possible (random selection) are only 14.8% that we could have won even ONE under KF. Oh wait... we were inches away from playing for an NC in 2015.
So this is very long-winded, so here's the TLDR, the take home point:
We're better off the last 19 years than most schools in the nation. Let's take a minute to readjust our expectations and differentiate them from our hopes. We all hope for the best, but at least we don't have to expect the worst (Kansas).
Hope: a feeling of expectation and desire for a certain thing to happen.
Predict: say or estimate that (a specified thing) will happen in the future or will be a consequence of something.
We hope to play for an NC every year. I think we can safely say KF does, too. If you think any differently then you do not at all understand the mentality that ALL coaches at D1 and D2 schools have. Here is where you can argue things rationally in terms of hope - Is KF the right coach to give you a chance to realize (read: expect) this hope once in a generation? Semi-regularly? Regularly? Is BF the right OC to realize these hopes? Do we have the players/talent/experience on this roster currently to realize this hope? The answers to these questions would then feed into our expectations, but would not change our hopes. Jon did not speak to hopes in his podcast, therefore I think we can safely say that, at minimum, we do not know that he hopes for 6-6. Also, a hope is a feeling, not a statement of fact.
Now, we get to predictions. These are estimations of a specific nature for what will happen in the future given current conditions. Jon was predicting 6-6, not hoping for 6-6. He even went through an entire spiel about what it would take for Iowa to still win a B1G championship. Sounds like he wants, hopes for, desires better than 6-6. We all do.
There are ~130 teams currently playing for a D1 national championship. Using the most liberal definition of a national championship (including ties and different poll results as individual champions) only 44 different schools have EVER won a D1 (or D1 equivalent) national championship since 1869. And seven of those schools are not even FBS teams any longer (Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Cornell, Penn, Chicago, Lafayette) This means that of the 130 teams, only 38 have ever won a championship. Iowa is one of those 38. Iowa is one of only 6 Big Ten teams to ever win a national championship (while in the Big Ten, so PSU would not count, but Chicago does) Since 1999 when Kirk Ferentz took over, only 11 different teams have one a national championship. 11 out of 130. Those schools? Alabama (4), Auburn (1), Ohio State (2), Texas (1), USC (2), LSU (2), Clemson (1), Florida (2), Florida State (2), Oklahoma (1), Miami (1). Only 2 schools and three champions since 1999 have come from north of the Mason-Dixon Line. Four schools and 9 champions from the SEC alone. Random odds that a B1G school wins a championship since 1999, given B1G success = 11.1%. Odds that any one team in the nation wins a championship since 1999, given purely random selection = 14.8%. And yet you want us to EXPECT to win an NC or compete for one every year when even given the best odds possible (random selection) are only 14.8% that we could have won even ONE under KF. Oh wait... we were inches away from playing for an NC in 2015.
So this is very long-winded, so here's the TLDR, the take home point:
We're better off the last 19 years than most schools in the nation. Let's take a minute to readjust our expectations and differentiate them from our hopes. We all hope for the best, but at least we don't have to expect the worst (Kansas).
InGoodCo
Well-Known Member
No one wants 6-6, but coming off of 12-2, 8-5 it's NOT the end of the world IMO. With the youth of this team and the schedule in front of it, it's also not that disheartening to me. The foundation is being laid for better seasons. The Qb is young, he's throwing to a lot of YOUNG targets. The RB's are starting to get mixed in. You're 2 starting tackles are being thrown into the fire. The DL is young and getting experience. You're defensive back field is young and getting experience. I feel like this team is CLOSE, but ultimately, not great, but lots of solid foundation being laid.
HawkGold
Well-Known Member
A lot of my posts? Seriously? But sense U brought it up, when a team has 8 years sub 140 on rushing and 6 below 130 and 4 give or take below 100 yds per game you think Iowa historically has very O Line play?
You know how many NW has below 140 in 12 years for Fitz? 4. How many below 100- None
Wisky has had 4 coaches under KF's watch. You know how many times they've rushed for under 160? 1. How many times under 150 for a year? 0
So define your definition of outstanding line play Historically? IS NW a known school for line play?
