Gatens shot pretty well as a freshman when Iowa had other offensive options. He struggled as a sophomore and junior but he was being asked to be the go to guy when he was much better equipped to be a secondary option. Oglesby will never have to worry about being the go to guy, nor will Jok, at least during his first few years.
Jok An All-American
- Thread starter TheNebraskaHawk
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Gatens shot pretty well as a freshman when Iowa had other offensive options. He struggled as a sophomore and junior but he was being asked to be the go to guy when he was much better equipped to be a secondary option. Oglesby will never have to worry about being the go to guy, nor will Jok, at least during his first few years.
Section136
Well-Known Member
And he was also playing out of position I believe his sophomore year, at the 4 for some of the time I believe.
And he had an injury to his shooting wrist during fall practice of his junior year.
I know he struggled and there are good reasons he did but that doesnt change the fact that people were brutal to him on these boards.
Like I said, people are idiots.
Agreed
That is all true. Jok is coming into a dream scenario compared to the mess that Gatens dealt with during his time at Iowa.
HawkPhreek
Well-Known Member
Neither JO or JOK will be as good as gatens. Man I would Like to see Matt on this team. All that being said I predict JO gets more minutes than JOK
BrueCrew3
Well-Known Member
I concur. Gatens came in at a time when Iowa was so devoid of talent that the Hawks needed him to play out of position. If he were on a team with this kind of talent, he would have played the 2 and may very well be playing in the NBA instead of Europe. He could have been similar to Bobby Hanson.
But I also agree that Oglesby and Jok have a long way to go to be as good as Gatens. Jok, however, is probably better equipped to do it. Oglesby needs to get his shtuff together if he is going to increase his playing time next season.
Just my $.02 .. ..
GO HAWKS!!!
Gatens was not going to be in the NBA under any circumstances, I would actually argue that playing out of position for a large part of his career made him a better player his senior year. He had spent time guarding bigger guys, trying to be a playmaker on offense, if he would have been on a better team he would have been able to be a spot up shooter and might not have developed as complete of all around game as he had by the time he was a senior.
FranklinHawk
Well-Known Member
Are you talking about next year only or throughout their career at Iowa? If the latter I'm not so sure about that. Matt pretty much had to live off coming off of screens to get his shot (and he did it very well his senior year) whereas I think Peter eventually will be more able to create his own shot when needed. If you're talking senior Gatens vs. either of those guys in this upcoming year I would likely agree with that.
You know if we just select the games that JO shot his worst, he would have a shooting percentage of 0%, which makes him one of the worst ever.
So, now, games vs IU do not count,just like all games that are not Big Ten...
By that token, Marble was one of the worst shooters in Iowa history,if we take his game vs IU this year only.
Cherrypicking shooting stats is like shooting fish in a barrel...easy to make a case that Gatens sucked if you exclude his hottest shooting games his senior year also.
I stand by my original post...if JO matches his 37% shooting from the arc his frosh year,he will be an important contributor to Iowas success next season.
No, I counted the IU game and he still shot under 30% from 3 in the B10 that year, which is not good. If you think looking at all B10 games is cherry picking games, well I don't know what to tell you.
Plus you don't need to cherrypick games to make Oglesby one of the worst ever, he did that all on his own, he was the worst shooter in the entire country late into the conference season.
I hope he has a good season and shoots better next year, but the stats are what they are.
HawkPhreek
Well-Known Member
I would argue you understand very little about the game of basketball. They have been two hawkeyes ever that have 1600 points 450 rebounds 250 assist and 125 steals. The other was Roy Marble Played. Matt played his career with teams void of talent guarded the other teams best player night in and night out. If you think JOK even sniffs this numbers open your wallet. Lots to the game other than driving to the hoop
wundergrape
Well-Known Member
I know a thing or two about basketball, and I believe the following:
a) Matt's numbers are not what you would call "unreachable". Not by a long shot.
b) Numbers are not necessarily an accurate judge of how good a player is. Especially when you're talking about one barren team, and one stacked team.
I'll stop beating around the bush here. Jok could easily end up being better than Matt. Gatens was a nice player - ok, but not great. He's not even top-5 post Davis Hawkeyes. I'm not prepared to throw my money behind Jok yet...but ask again in a year. Or proclaim, as you are prone to do.
HawkPhreek
Well-Known Member
Lol so " Could easily be better ", but I'm not willing to say he would be that is classic. In what area's do you see JOK being better ? So your predicting when its all done Peter Jok will be a professional basketball player that is what you are saying. As far as unreachable numbers you actually think he will pass everyone of those numbers ?
wundergrape
Well-Known Member
Oh, I get it now. You're an emotional blowhard. I'm not willing to say that I think Jok will be better because he's never played against Big Ten competition. I would be a...well, an emotional blowhard, to unilaterally declare that Jok will be better than Gatens at this point.
To answer your second (sort of) question: there are plenty of areas that Jok could be better than Gatens. But, even if he doesn't pass every one of those numbers he could still be better than Gatens (B.J. Armstrong was).
But he could outscore Gatens (Devyn Marble will, Aaron White will). He could out-rebound Gatens (Jeff Horner did, Devyn Marble will). He could have more assists (Luke Recker did, Pierre Pierce did).
I have no idea how good Jok will be. But being better than Matt isn't as hard as you think. We have three or four guys on our current roster who have a chance to be better than him by the end of their career.
Finally, will Peter Jok play professional basketball? If he stays healthy, yeah, Peter Jok will play professional basketball. David freakin' Palmer plays professional basketball. Jake Kelly just signed in Europe.
HawkPhreek
Well-Known Member
I hope for Iowa basketball team sake Jok is a beast and breaks every record, but to say Jok will be an all around better player Gatens is flat out crazy. So is saying he could easily be better.
wundergrape
Well-Known Member
Your basketball knowledge is truly overwhelming. Uncle.
Gatens came to the Hawks with some above average abilities and learned to maximize them the hard way- on subpar teams in a great conference. I, for one, will always respect him for that. His last year the team was starting to be pretty good and he was in a position, with his talent and experience, to rise to the occasion. Jok's coming in with a better shot, better handle, and better explosiveness, without having reached his full physical potential. Will he put in the time and effort, like Gatens did, and be able to rise to the occasion when his time comes? If he does, he could be better than Gatens.
Eh...you talkin' to me?
HawkPhreek
Well-Known Member
I thinks this has some very valid points. There is no arguing the explosiveness JOK could be an offensive weapon and to most offense is all that matters. Will Jok ever be the defender Matt was, pass the ball, rebound the ball , steal the ball , these I have my doubts. As a freshman Matt averaged 10.8 pts shot 42.2 from the field 40.3 from three and 90.4 from the free throw. Jok won't get the minutes to match these I understand that. When its all said and done if we can argue Jok was better than Matt it will be fun to watch, and Iowa will have a heck of a player.
wundergrape
Well-Known Member
Ha! No, I was sarcastically relenting to the "onslaught" of HawkPhreek's "knowledge."
