Jack Nunge

[Adam]

Granted, OSU has a lot of issues right now. However, note the difference between Iowa recruits highlighted and Lyle. The Iowa guys are seen moving into a light defense. Lyle is leaving guys behind and creating. Fran has what he needs to make the next step. This is what he's missing to make the big step.

Well Lyle was a consensus to 50 so it is reasonable to expect that he was a great athlete. He also displayed an explosive first step in high school. Likely a little more explosive than Connor's. That is not a knock on Connor by any means. Lyle was physically mature sooner than Connor. I haven't seen much growth in Lyle's game in his time at OSU, but I would bet Connor has more room to improve as he matures physically.

 

[UncleHawk]

Adam, seriously. Connor is not slow in his first step. Explosive....NO. Quick...no. A gamer? Yes.

Williams, is faster, but not especially quick. His reluctance to go left and put it up with left is noticeable and not typical for a Big Guard and maybe explains a few things. He does have faster than normal lateral movement, but nothing unusual.

Moss is athletic and has some great moves at speed and can quickly turn the burners on when he's already at speed. He is not explosive from a standing start. http://www.blackheartgoldpants.com/...151367/isaiah-moss-iowa-basketball-recruiting

What Fran has put together is a team than can attack when pushing the ball. A quick overview of these guys might sort of explain the difficulty Iowa has in the half court. Might also explain difficult defending the half court as well. Williams (who I think should play more) struggles with defensive position.

Somewhere though Fran needs more explosiveness in his recruits.

A little confused by your criticism of Williams. You say CW has trouble going left, yet the highlight reel posted shows him going left on every drive but one and putting it in with his left hand once as well.

Yes, most players have limitations. But that didn't stop Iowa from being among the leaders of the B1G in D a couple years ago. And it could certainly be argued that we're more athletic now than we were then.

Yes, JaQuan Lyle, a 5* player, is more athletic than our guards. But we're getting there. I'm looking to 2019 for more guard quickness.

 

[BigD]

My statement was not an opinion. it is an accepted industry fact. Here is a link to support my statement. You will notice #2 - 7 in the defensive rankings are teams that certainly don't have top end talent. They don't have super fast elite players. How can you explain their defensive success?

http://www.oddsshark.com/ncaab/defensive-stats

Well maybe I should clarify what I am referring to as speed. I am looking at speed as not flat out running a forty yard dash. I was referring to quickness.

 

[Adam]

We disagree. It is not explosive. You can say that all day long. He is also guarded by Iowa high school players. Makes a big difference. Iowa large schools would struggle in Indiana or Illinois small school tourneys. That is based on lack of diversity and mostly....lack of games. Schools in surrounding states play 2x the games in a year than Iowa High Schools. AAU isn't the same. It's showcase and about individuals, not team work.

The Illinois 1A state Champion played 33 games. Iowa City West played 27. That is certainly not 2x the games. Why is it that you must believe that every other state is better at basketball than Iowa? Why is every kid from another state faster than the elite Iowa kids? Iowa is a fast growing Mecca for high level basketball recruits. In the last 10 years alone the state of Iowa will have produced 6 NBA players. You compare that ratio to these other states you value so highly and I think you might be surprised.

 

[Adam]

Well maybe I should clarify what I am referring to as speed. I am looking at speed as not flat out running a forty yard dash. I was referring to quickness.

I get it man, I really do. Our individual player quickness does leave a little to be desired, but my point is that is no excuse for poor defense. It should not limit our team defensive abilty. As you can see other teams with even less athletic kids then us have been able to play excellent team defense.

 

[InGoodCo]

The Illinois 1A state Champion played 33 games. Iowa City West played 27. That is certainly not 2x the games. Why is it that you must believe that every other state is better at basketball than Iowa? Why is every kid from another state faster than the elite Iowa kids? Iowa is a fast growing Mecca for high level basketball recruits. In the last 10 years alone the state of Iowa will have produced 6 NBA players. You compare that ratio to these other states you value so highly and I think you might be surprised.

If Iowa gets the top in state talent year in year out - they'll be consistently a top 25 team every season.

 

[Adam]

If Iowa gets the top in state talent year in year out - they'll be consistently a top 25 team every season.

There are some years that the state might not churn out elite talent, but those years are getting fewer and fewer. Lock down the state, snag a couple of high ranking kids from other states as well and you are set for sure. The rest is just coaching.

 

[HawkGold]

A little confused by your criticism of Williams. You say CW has trouble going left, yet the highlight reel posted shows him going left on every drive but one and putting it in with his left hand once as well.

Yes, most players have limitations. But that didn't stop Iowa from being among the leaders of the B1G in D a couple years ago. And it could certainly be argued that we're more athletic now than we were then.

Yes, JaQuan Lyle, a 5* player, is more athletic than our guards. But we're getting there. I'm looking to 2019 for more guard quickness.

In the video, the one where he was fouled, he for sure puts it with his right while going left. Very simple move. They other in my opinion, he puts it up left, but guides it with his right, something people who are very insecure about weak hand.. Maybe one I"m not remembering.

 

[HawkGold]

The Illinois 1A state Champion played 33 games. Iowa City West played 27. That is certainly not 2x the games. Why is it that you must believe that every other state is better at basketball than Iowa? Why is every kid from another state faster than the elite Iowa kids? Iowa is a fast growing Mecca for high level basketball recruits. In the last 10 years alone the state of Iowa will have produced 6 NBA players. You compare that ratio to these other states you value so highly and I think you might be surprised.

Outside of big guys, most Iowa HS players in the NBA came from transplants (but still Iowa). I do agree that if Iowa locked down in state talent and got a few TOP players out of state they'd be hard to beat. Every state better than Iowa...didn't say that. Illinois/Indiana and probably MO in the bigger cities....yes they are better. Iowa just doesn't have that many big schools. Even the mid range size in Indiana and IL are bigger than all but a few in Iowa. Other states when to larger schools years ago.

If you haven't done so, you should go to some Holiday Tourneys in the states I mentioned. I think you would be surprised at what you see. I do know Illinois allows quite a few summer league games as teams as well and practices. It makes a big difference. Iowa can do well with Iowa kids. They aren't going to get many 4 star guards out of Iowa. Just isn't going to happen.

 

[Adam]

In the video, the one where he was fouled, he for sure puts it with his right while going left. Very simple move. They other in my opinion, he puts it up left, but guides it with his right, something people who are very insecure about weak hand.. Maybe one I"m not remembering.

Lol...Thread derailed! This has nothing to do with Nunge or the side debate that started about defense. Williams is not a strong offensive player. It is quite possible that he won't ever be. Still has nothing to do with his defensive ability. Williams immediate contribution to this team needs to focus on defense. If that 6'6 athletic body of his can learn to point man that zone of ours we could be very good defensively. That is really the only hope of progression that I have for Williams at this moment. I don't much care about the offensive end mostly because I feel we have enough weapons on that side without him being a major offensive contributor. We really need him to just to be able to bring the ball down the court and initiate the offense with out turning it over. The rest is all defense. We really need Williams to become an excellent perimeter defender by next season.

 

[Adam]

Outside of big guys, most Iowa HS players in the NBA came from transplants (but still Iowa). I do agree that if Iowa locked down in state talent and got a few TOP players out of state they'd be hard to beat. Every state better than Iowa...didn't say that. Illinois/Indiana and probably MO in the bigger cities....yes they are better. Iowa just doesn't have that many big schools. Even the mid range size in Indiana and IL are bigger than all but a few in Iowa. Other states when to larger schools years ago.

If you haven't done so, you should go to some Holiday Tourneys in the states I mentioned. I think you would be surprised at what you see. I do know Illinois allows quite a few summer league games as teams as well and practices. It makes a big difference. Iowa can do well with Iowa kids. They aren't going to get many 4 star guards out of Iowa. Just isn't going to happen.

Except for Hinrich and Paige right? Probably missing another 1 or 2(Connor lol). They are there often enough. We just need to get them when they are. I also believe that we need to supplement from other states. If that's guards then so be it.

 

[HawkGold]

Lol...Thread derailed! This has nothing to do with Nunge or the side debate that started about defense. Williams is not a strong offensive player. It is quite possible that he won't ever be. Still has nothing to do with his defensive ability. Williams immediate contribution to this team needs to focus on defense. If that 6'6 athletic body of his can learn to point man that zone of ours we could be very good defensively. That is really the only hope of progression that I have for Williams at this moment. I don't much care about the offensive end mostly because I feel we have enough weapons on that side without him being a major offensive contributor. We really need him to just to be able to bring the ball down the court and initiate the offense with out turning it over. The rest is all defense. We really need Williams to become an excellent perimeter defender by next season.

Totally agree. Then again,, it would be nice to have a Williams type player that has both sets of skills at a decent level. Williams played very small school IL and didn't have to develop both hands. I think he can do it, but it requires experience and that will be painful.

Iowa's per capita NBA presence isn't bad at all, but trail the mighty Dakota's. Take out D1 coaches kids and really big guys and there isn't much though.

 

[WinOneThisCentury]

How so?

TCUs guards scored something like 67 of their 94 points...and the back up guard was 19pts and 11 assist. They were in the paint the whole game...and it boiled down to us stopping penetration, which we struggled with all year...against small quick guards. You have to have the requisite athleticism to stop that type of penetration...even if you try to protect guys with playing a zone. Hard work and determination only take you so far...otherwise slow white guys from Iowa would be a hot commodity in the power five conferences. They all play with determination and intensity...they just arrive at every cutoff point about a half second after the offensive player has gone by.

 

[Adam]

TCUs guards scored something like 67 of their 94 points...and the back up guard was 19pts and 11 assist. They were in the paint the whole game...and it boiled down to us stopping penetration, which we struggled with all year...against small quick guards. You have to have the requisite athleticism to stop that type of penetration...even if you try to protect guys with playing a zone. Hard work and determination only take you so far...otherwise slow white guys from Iowa would be a hot commodity in the power five conferences. They all play with determination and intensity...they just arrive at every cutoff point about a half second after the offensive player has gone by.

I'm not arguing that we were deficient. I'm saying if the guard beats your defender at the top of the arc and gets to the key. The defense is designed to rotate and cut off the penetration. If everyone rotates correctly then it doesn't matter that the original defender got beat. That was where we failed the most last season. The rotations and close outs were painful sometimes. However the team did have several games that the rotation was on point and we played great D. Low and behold we won most if not all of those games. Young players was an excuse this past season. It won't be this next season, but I fully expect that the "team defense" will improve massively.

 

[WinOneThisCentury]

I understand what you are saying, but you can't have certain players getting beat all the time and expect the rotations to always stop the opposing team. Penetration creates offensive opportunity and gets you out of position. The help is designed to slow the penetration to allow the beat defender to recover...we weren't recovering, so it forced everyone out of position...and it became the mad scramble either defending the three or at the rim depending on the weakness the other team decided to attack. Great defensive teams, show the help defense to allow the defender to recover position, guys were just flat out by us...which changes things immensely.

 

[Adam]

I understand what you are saying, but you can't have certain players getting beat all the time and expect the rotations to always stop the opposing team. Penetration creates offensive opportunity and gets you out of position. The help is designed to slow the penetration to allow the beat defender to recover...we weren't recovering, so it forced everyone out of position...and it became the mad scramble either defending the three or at the rim depending on the weakness the other team decided to attack. Great defensive teams, show the help defense to allow the defender to recover position, guys were just flat out by us...which changes things immensely.

Yes on ball defense must improve as well. There are defensive strategies where the defense rotates and switches on the rotation. They don't ask the primary defender who got beat to recover only to find the man who is open as a result of the rotation. If the rotation is seamless then the open man should be the closest player to the beaten defender. Zone is a whole other story. I think you will see alot of zone from Iowa in the upcoming seasons as there were times that the zone was brilliant. I also think the players we have fit a zone mold better than man to man. That will help negate possible individual defensive weakness's that are more easily exposed in a man to man.

 

[PCHawk]

but he's a white kid from Iowa so he has to lack lateral quickness and don't forget, Fran can't recruit quick guards scenario either. These narratives don't care about actual tape or fact.

What's the point of watching a video when you can clearly see how slow he is from a picture. Amirite?

 

[Adam]

What's the point of watching a video when you can clearly see how slow he is from a picture. Amirite?

Lol

 

[Robowe]

We disagree. It is not explosive. You can say that all day long. He is also guarded by Iowa high school players. Makes a big difference. Iowa large schools would struggle in Indiana or Illinois small school tourneys. That is based on lack of diversity and mostly....lack of games. Schools in surrounding states play 2x the games in a year than Iowa High Schools. AAU isn't the same. It's showcase and about individuals, not team work.

As I mentioned before, IC West played schools from Illinois, Missouri, and Minnesota in their non-conference games this year. They have to schedule these games because they can't get other Iowa 4A teams to play them.

West went 1-2 in these games this year. Connor seemed to score OK in these games.

1) Illinois (Connor had 19 points on 6-13 shooting) --> http://www.thegazette.com/iowa-city...ck-mccaffery-shows-off-improved-game-20161203

2) Missouri (Connor had 21 points on 7-14 shooting) --> http://www.stltoday.com/sports/high...cle_ff907c22-f0ca-11e6-b43a-038104cebf76.html

3) Minnesota (Connor had 22 points on 7-15 shooting) --> http://www.mnbasketballhub.com/game/show/16209383?subseason=316130

 

[Knight78]

How tall is Greg Brunner? How tall is Jon Miller?

He's 6'5"..... 6'9" with the afro.....