It's official: Hyde to safety
- Thread starter MoseSchrute
- Start date
Its very difficult to argue against Norm's results. His teams just don't give up a lot of points on a regular basis. However the soft pass coverage does get a bit old but I understand the goal is to keep everything in front and make the opponent drive the field.
My concern with this defense is that Wisconsin may have laid down a perfect blueprint to beat it.
A run oriented team spread Iowa out from the start. They didn't bother running because they knew that was Iowa's strength and that Iowa would give up the short to medium pass game. Don't worry about TOP. They just ran a lot of plays, which completely wears a defensive line out. Having to run to the new LOS, get down in your stance, fire off the ball, and repeat quickly is going to wear anyone out.
Then in the 2nd half Wisconsin ran it down Iowa's throats. The DL was worn out and powerless to stop it. They took chances and almost paid dearly for it by letting their QB throw, then went exclusively to the run game and made it look easy. I guess we'll see if other teams follow.
Also, had Gabbert not thrown the worst pass of the season, Iowa would have lost their last game. I wonder how much different the tune would be regarding Iowa's defense?
My concern with this defense is that Wisconsin may have laid down a perfect blueprint to beat it.
A run oriented team spread Iowa out from the start. They didn't bother running because they knew that was Iowa's strength and that Iowa would give up the short to medium pass game. Don't worry about TOP. They just ran a lot of plays, which completely wears a defensive line out. Having to run to the new LOS, get down in your stance, fire off the ball, and repeat quickly is going to wear anyone out.
Then in the 2nd half Wisconsin ran it down Iowa's throats. The DL was worn out and powerless to stop it. They took chances and almost paid dearly for it by letting their QB throw, then went exclusively to the run game and made it look easy. I guess we'll see if other teams follow.
Also, had Gabbert not thrown the worst pass of the season, Iowa would have lost their last game. I wonder how much different the tune would be regarding Iowa's defense?
hawkfan2679
Well-Known Member
You bring up a very good point here. Wisconsin might be a less-than-perfect example only because they have that massive OL that can really lean on a defense, especially late, and especially after they've worn a team down. But even against a passing team like Missouri, this was a concern.
Missouri's 2nd half designed rushing attempts (not including runs by Gabbert, although I think he had a rushing score in the 2nd half):
2 yards (1st drive of 2nd half)
9 yards (3rd drive of 2nd half)
16 yards (3rd drive of 2nd half)
12 yards (3rd drive of 2nd half)
-1 yards (goalline) (3rd drive of 2nd half)
6 yards (6th drive of 2nd half)
1 yard (6th drive of 2nd half)
Total: 7 rushes, 45 yards
Missouri ran 47 first half plays to only 29 for Iowa...they ran 40 plays to only 31 for Iowa. TOP was almost identical...so Iowa's defense had to play 1 1/2 times as many plays as their counterparts. Getting off the field on 3rd downs is crucial, and one of the biggest issues with this defense is the large cushion/easy throws allowed on 3rd down for 1st down pickups.
Over the last 3 years, Indiana and NW have averaged 15 and 18 points per game, respectively, against Iowa. I'll take that.
cabse5
Banned
Yet, Parker lovers still use stats to proclaim Iowa's pass defense one of the best in the country.
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tm3308
Well-Known Member
Gee, I don't know, but I think the person you quoted was being sarcastic? Seriously, get a clue man. The defense is damn good, year in and year out. When the offense can't score 18 points, I think maybe THAT is where you should be looking to find a solution.
homerHAWKeye777
Well-Known Member
There was no blue print there. Wisconsin was just beating our D on the early downs. Furthermore, they arguably had the best OL in the nation ... and they leaned heavily on that OL to help power their running game.
Wisconsin played well and won ... no argument there. However, even with the benefit of their formidable running game ... Wisconsin only narrowly escaped with a victory.
Also, folks shouldn't forget that Tolzien had been a highly efficient QB all season and he also made some really big throws against our D. Not many opposing Os have the benefit of having such a highly efficient QB to go along with such a formidable OL and running game.
Such Os tend to have success against nearly EVERY D they face.
TCU also had an impressive D ... and the Badgers moved the ball pretty well on them too.
homerHAWKeye777
Well-Known Member
Exaggeration is the last resort of an individual who has no real argument upon which to rest their hat. Good play ... and a desperate one too!
ICHawk24
Well-Known Member
Wisconsin did lay the blueprint:
Put together a top 5 team centered around an all big ten QB, all big ten RB, 3 all big ten OL and an all big ten TE. Lose the total yardage battle by 29. Go 3 for 3 on fourth down. Go 5 for 5 on red zone possessions. Fight and scratch and claw and win the game by one.
I see oodles of teams using this blue print in the future.
Put together a top 5 team centered around an all big ten QB, all big ten RB, 3 all big ten OL and an all big ten TE. Lose the total yardage battle by 29. Go 3 for 3 on fourth down. Go 5 for 5 on red zone possessions. Fight and scratch and claw and win the game by one.
I see oodles of teams using this blue print in the future.
Wasn't Wisconsin was missing some of those all B10 guys you mentioned as well as some other starters? Both WRs, TE, top 2 RBs & 1 OL were banged up and missed alot of the game.
NW, Indiana, & Minnesota have proven that you don't need great players to beat Iowa.
I'm not sure your blueprint holds much water.
NW, Indiana, & Minnesota have proven that you don't need great players to beat Iowa.
I'm not sure your blueprint holds much water.
cmhawks99
Well-Known Member
You have to be kidding right?!!?! The ignorance of the average internet sports fan is just baffling to me. You'd think logic at some time would kick in but it never does. I used to think we didn't have these guys as fans but I'm now convinced ours are some of the worst.
2 years in a row (2008 & 2009) we had either the best or one of the very best (top 10 for sure) pass efficiency D in the nation. We always have a top 25 scoring D and we routinely hold spread teams WAY below their average and yet someone is complaining....
We have somewhere around the 15th most NFL alumni with more on the way...many, many of those being athletic Lbers and DB's and yet....honestly this is too "twilight" zone like to even address. Like its some ruse just trying to trick people into responding.
Chad
PS.....After reading the post above I'm am even more convinced most fans don't watch anyone except their favorite team. Do people not realize Iowa is far from the only team that loses to the Minne and NW?!??!
Huh.....do you?!??! I/e constantly.....that's why they play the game!!!
Do you also realize Iowa has like the 17th or 18th best winning percentage nationally since 2001 and we are currently in the greatest stretch of Iowa football ever?!?! Yet here we have complainers with ZERO perceptive....? Honestly critiquing is fine, our coaches certainly aren't infallible, but really lets see what is actually there, you only make yourselves look stupid!
2 years in a row (2008 & 2009) we had either the best or one of the very best (top 10 for sure) pass efficiency D in the nation. We always have a top 25 scoring D and we routinely hold spread teams WAY below their average and yet someone is complaining....
We have somewhere around the 15th most NFL alumni with more on the way...many, many of those being athletic Lbers and DB's and yet....honestly this is too "twilight" zone like to even address. Like its some ruse just trying to trick people into responding.
Chad
PS.....After reading the post above I'm am even more convinced most fans don't watch anyone except their favorite team. Do people not realize Iowa is far from the only team that loses to the Minne and NW?!??!
Huh.....do you?!??! I/e constantly.....that's why they play the game!!!
Do you also realize Iowa has like the 17th or 18th best winning percentage nationally since 2001 and we are currently in the greatest stretch of Iowa football ever?!?! Yet here we have complainers with ZERO perceptive....? Honestly critiquing is fine, our coaches certainly aren't infallible, but really lets see what is actually there, you only make yourselves look stupid!
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cabse5
Banned
It's funny. One poster refuses to acknowledge that stats are quoted in posts to 'prove' Iowa's pass defense as one of greatest in the country. Two posts later, stats are quoted to attempt to 'prove' Iowa's pass defense as one of the greatest in the country. If you read the entirety of this behemoth - this thread, you'll see more posts that attempt to do this.
One thing I can say - If a post says something like: don't blame the defense... - without pointing out problems with the defense -
you're looking at a post that isn't open-minded. Both Iowa's offense and defense can/should be improved.
Anyway,
You may be thinking: OK, chickenlittle - that's me - what should be done to make Iowa's defense better?
Change to a 3-4 defense. Have a faster, group of 4 linebackers cover non-WR receivers. Plenty of NFL teams use this scheme.
The pass rush may not be as great as with a 4-3. Coaches will have to recruit and coach behemoths like Farely of Auburn to still put pressure on the QB.
Some might ask: How will Iowa stop perennial strong running teams like Wisconsin with a 3-4 defense?
Ask TCU. They stymied Wisky's running game in the Rose Bowl.
The goal of Iowa DBs should be changed to: preventing the pass catch.
Play some man-to-man. Play some zone. Play both well. Play 'em both in the same game to confuse opponents. Iowa's DBs will be better equipped to play in the NFL with this added man-to-man experience.
I predict Iowa will be able to more easily recruit athletes for these DB postions because Iowa will be using the athleticism of these athletes.
Please, I don't want to get started criticizing Iowa's WRs (I certainly don't want to extend the life of this thread because someone took offense to my WR comment).
We'd all like Iowa football to be an elite football program, right?
Right???
One thing I can say - If a post says something like: don't blame the defense... - without pointing out problems with the defense -
you're looking at a post that isn't open-minded. Both Iowa's offense and defense can/should be improved.
Anyway,
You may be thinking: OK, chickenlittle - that's me - what should be done to make Iowa's defense better?
Change to a 3-4 defense. Have a faster, group of 4 linebackers cover non-WR receivers. Plenty of NFL teams use this scheme.
The pass rush may not be as great as with a 4-3. Coaches will have to recruit and coach behemoths like Farely of Auburn to still put pressure on the QB.
Some might ask: How will Iowa stop perennial strong running teams like Wisconsin with a 3-4 defense?
Ask TCU. They stymied Wisky's running game in the Rose Bowl.
The goal of Iowa DBs should be changed to: preventing the pass catch.
Play some man-to-man. Play some zone. Play both well. Play 'em both in the same game to confuse opponents. Iowa's DBs will be better equipped to play in the NFL with this added man-to-man experience.
I predict Iowa will be able to more easily recruit athletes for these DB postions because Iowa will be using the athleticism of these athletes.
Please, I don't want to get started criticizing Iowa's WRs (I certainly don't want to extend the life of this thread because someone took offense to my WR comment).
We'd all like Iowa football to be an elite football program, right?
Right???
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cmhawks99
Well-Known Member
Honestly I don’t believe you want Iowa to be the best. You, let me say again YOU are the one who has “missed” the stats. Furthermore you have ZERO understanding of the NFL and the worth Iowa players have there. Your opinion can not be taken remotely seriously because you have ZERO perspective or insight.
First off they use Lbers to cover WR’s in the NFL constantly and it is one of the reasons why you see so many Big 10 Lbers in the NFL because they are schooled to do just that. It’s also why Iowa Lbers are so well liked of which we have had several drafted and playing. Finally you can’t really be watching these games if you don’t realize how athletic Iowa’s Lbers and DB’s have become over the last several years.
Here are the Lbers who have been drafted or played via free agency in the NFL for Iowa. Steen, Barr, Hodge, Greenway (uber athlete) Miles (also a sensational athlete) Humpal (another great athlete) Angerer and Edds both very fast and great in coverage…with more going this year.
Db you say………well JJ played a few seasons, (do we get to count Benny Sapp), Pagel, Bowen, Sanders, Considine, Merrick, Paschal, Godfrey, Fletcher, Spievey again with more on the way….
Honestly it is really pointless to talk to Iowa fans or any fans like you really. You formulate an opinion based on your “rough” calculations or disgust because we lost a game you thought we should have won and you run with it. No matter how illogical it all is. We have the 2nd most Big 10 wins since 2001, we are one of only 6 universities in the nation who have turned an athletic department profit for 6 years running (this means we are well run) and you have proven you have no idea how much speed and athleticism Iowa has. It is because of thoughts like this that I began watching the combines, Pro-days and drafts diligently over the last 5 so I could prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that people are all wet and don't "really" watch the games with an open mind.
Others have shown that the defensive stats you have suggested are also all wet. Strangely enuff Iowa is universally consider to be one of the better defensive teams year in and year out and Norm Parker is considered one of the very best DC.
The absolutely most bizarre statement you make is the….” we don’t use our speed or athleticism” followed by ….”We could then recruit “speed” easier” huh?!?!....So assumedly we don’t need any speed at Lber or DB because we could take ISU’s talent and win just as many games…really?!?! It is statements like this that have led me to the belief that critical thinking and logic is dead in the world today….my 12 year old son would go “what…?”… if he heard someone say that out loud.
Finally someone should get on the horn with the NFL people because they are steady drafting Iowa Lbers and DB’s because they think they are good athletes and football players…they might be able to save some money!
Chad
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cmhawks99
Well-Known Member
Incidentally Wisco ran for 226 yards and could have run for more if they hadn't got cute. Why don't you head over to the Wiscy board because they could use some coaching critique after that game themeslves......they ran up the gut on TCU like a hot knife through butter. And then they stopped or went outside.....
Chad
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ICHawk24
Well-Known Member
Iowa's defense was top 10 in the country in points allowed last year. The pass defense wasn't "one of the greatest in the country" like the strawman you've built, but they were on the edge of top 25. Can they improve? Yes. Does it involve an overhaul and require ignoramuses like yourself bashing it? No.
TCU runs a 4-2-5, not a 3-4. The "5" is really a smallish LB, the defense uses Cover 2 concepts, and really matches up with the scheme that Iowa runs. Iowa has long used one LB similar to a d-back, and seems to be tilting even more in that direction with Hitchens/Kirksey.
Inside the TCU 4-2-5 Defense - Shakin The Southland
TCU runs a 4-2-5, not a 3-4. The "5" is really a smallish LB, the defense uses Cover 2 concepts, and really matches up with the scheme that Iowa runs. Iowa has long used one LB similar to a d-back, and seems to be tilting even more in that direction with Hitchens/Kirksey.
Inside the TCU 4-2-5 Defense - Shakin The Southland
homerHAWKeye777
Well-Known Member
- You used a single season as a data point - a stats no-no
- You looked at very few of the descriptive variables that play a role in pass D - another stats no-no
- You didn't account for outlying data and/or variance in the data - another stats no-no
My critique of your post WAS NOT a critique of using stats ... it was a critique of MISUSING stats to support an argument. And, sir, you were MISUSING stats to support your point. Of course, you probably didn't even realize it.
cmhawks99
Well-Known Member
Although I don’t like these boards much anymore, it is people like you that make it enjoyable. Quick poignant facts that others have missed and as a conglomerate we can usually ferret out the truth.
Sadly it has been my experience that closed minded types like the above are blind to it and stick with their presuppositions no matter how the truth really leads. Because that’s what they “need†to be true. Someone has to be to blame always.
Chad
rodg12
Well-Known Member
So much fail in this post I don't even know where to begin...
tm3308
Well-Known Member
You completely ignore the stats that back up the fact that the defense is consistently salty, even against the pass. The season has been over for 4 months. It's time to get over all the drama of November. The defense is, has been, and will be in good hands.
If you choose not to believe that, go ahead. But don't be surprised when you're considered an idiot.
