It's official: Hyde to safety

[tm3308]

Hyde tackling > Hyde coverage

Which, IMO, is really saying something. Hyde isn't NEARLY as bad in coverage as a lot of people here seem to think. He gets burned a few times in the first half of the season, and everybody's made up their mind that his coverage skills suck, all the improvement he made by the end of the year be damned. Same thing happened with Willie Lowe in 2009. He had a rough day against Arkansas State, but by the end of the year he was a dependable corner that I would have been comfortable with in the nickel. But most people still said he sucked because they simply weren't really paying attention.

 

[trj]

Which, IMO, is really saying something. Hyde isn't NEARLY as bad in coverage as a lot of people here seem to think. He gets burned a few times in the first half of the season, and everybody's made up their mind that his coverage skills suck, all the improvement he made by the end of the year be damned. Same thing happened with Willie Lowe in 2009. He had a rough day against Arkansas State, but by the end of the year he was a dependable corner that I would have been comfortable with in the nickel. But most people still said he sucked because they simply weren't really paying attention.

This. I just want the 4 best guys out there figure out where they play in August.

 

[homerHAWKeye777]

Which, IMO, is really saying something. Hyde isn't NEARLY as bad in coverage as a lot of people here seem to think. He gets burned a few times in the first half of the season, and everybody's made up their mind that his coverage skills suck, all the improvement he made by the end of the year be damned. Same thing happened with Willie Lowe in 2009. He had a rough day against Arkansas State, but by the end of the year he was a dependable corner that I would have been comfortable with in the nickel. But most people still said he sucked because they simply weren't really paying attention.

LOL ... tm3308, pretty ridiculous, eh? Bradley Fletcher sucked big and bad even early into his JR season ... and then in the latter part of his JR year and into his SR year, things really seemed to "click" for him.

I totally agree with you ... folks have stupid written all over them if they prematurely judge Hyde's cover skills.

The fact of the matter is that we were lacking experience at safety and the coaches felt that Hyde's experience, size, and skill would really translate well over to safety and help make the team better. Furthermore, by all accounts, Lowery is pretty impressive ... so it also allows them to put their best 4 on the field in the secondary.

 

[clim33]

LOL ... tm3308, pretty ridiculous, eh? Bradley Fletcher sucked big and bad even early into his JR season ... and then in the latter part of his JR year and into his SR year, things really seemed to "click" for him.

I totally agree with you ... folks have stupid written all over them if they prematurely judge Hyde's cover skills.

The fact of the matter is that we were lacking experience at safety and the coaches felt that Hyde's experience, size, and skill would really translate well over to safety and help make the team better. Furthermore, by all accounts, Lowery is pretty impressive ... so it also allows them to put their best 4 on the field in the secondary.

Homer/Jon is Lowery the man at CB then? Any chance this JuCo we got recently could step in and play? We usually don't get JuCos to sit out but wasn't sure? Thanks

 

[cabse5]

In Saturday's Des Moines Register, an evaluation of Iowa's pass defense preceded the Hawk Central link.

I'll summarize the DM Register's contribution:
In 2010:
Iowa gave up an average of 230.5 yards/game through the air.
84th in the FBS and 7th in the B1G.

Putting Hyde at free safety might put the most athletic DBs on the field for pass defense but

Parker's cover 2 pass defense is a system defense - It doesn't matter how athletic the players are because the athleticism of the DBs aren't used.

Metaphorically speaking, 'a little bit more of the edge will have been shaved away', but the 'square peg' still won't quite fit in the 'round hole'.

To be successful at pass defense, a completely new type of pass defense will be needed. Until that time, Iowa's pass defense will be average at best.

Will Parker change? No, I'm not counting on it. Iowa will continue to defend the pass by hoping our opponents' receivers drop the ball or hoping our opponents' QBs throw a bad ball.

 

[homerHAWKeye777]

Homer/Jon is Lowery the man at CB then? Any chance this JuCo we got recently could step in and play? We usually don't get JuCos to sit out but wasn't sure? Thanks

What I've heard suggests that Castillo is still ahead of Lowery. However, I continue to hear VERY good things about Lowery ... the young man is a VERY high ceiling talent. My guess is that Castillo is more experienced and plays with greater consistency ... which is critical for our D. However, don't be surprised if we end up seeing plenty of Lowery anyhow.

 

[HawkPhreek]

Hyde seems to be a play maker type this move might free him up some to do so.

 

[HawkPhreek]

In Saturday's Des Moines Register, an evaluation of Iowa's pass defense preceded the Hawk Central link.

I'll summarize the DM Register's contribution:
In 2010:
Iowa gave up an average of 230.5 yards/game through the air.
84th in the FBS and 7th in the B1G.

Putting Hyde at free safety might put the most athletic DBs on the field for pass defense but

Parker's cover 2 pass defense is a system defense - It doesn't matter how athletic the players are because the athleticism of the DBs aren't used.

Metaphorically speaking, 'a little bit more of the edge will have been shaved away', but the 'square peg' still won't quite fit in the 'round hole'.

To be successful at pass defense, a completely new type of pass defense will be needed. Until that time, Iowa's pass defense will be average at best.

Will Parker change? No, I'm not counting on it. Iowa will continue to defend the pass by hoping our opponents' receivers drop the ball or hoping our opponents' QBs throw a bad ball.

YAWN !!!

 

[tm3308]

In Saturday's Des Moines Register, an evaluation of Iowa's pass defense preceded the Hawk Central link.

I'll summarize the DM Register's contribution:
In 2010:
Iowa gave up an average of 230.5 yards/game through the air.
84th in the FBS and 7th in the B1G.

Putting Hyde at free safety might put the most athletic DBs on the field for pass defense but

Parker's cover 2 pass defense is a system defense - It doesn't matter how athletic the players are because the athleticism of the DBs aren't used.

Metaphorically speaking, 'a little bit more of the edge will have been shaved away', but the 'square peg' still won't quite fit in the 'round hole'.

To be successful at pass defense, a completely new type of pass defense will be needed. Until that time, Iowa's pass defense will be average at best.

Will Parker change? No, I'm not counting on it. Iowa will continue to defend the pass by hoping our opponents' receivers drop the ball or hoping our opponents' QBs throw a bad ball.

Wow. This is quite possibly the stupidest post I have seen on this board, and I've seen some doozies.

Iowa's defense is built around the linebackers. In years when our pass defense is VERY good, we have linebackers who are athletic enough to cover wide receivers consistently. When it's an average pass defense, our backers are not so good in coverage.

Our defense is a system defense in the secondary. But it is DEFINITELY not a system defense for our linebackers. The performance of the system is entirely dependent on the performance of our linebackers, not the other way around.

 

[cabse5]

Wow.
Our defense is a system defense in the secondary. But it is DEFINITELY not a system defense for our linebackers. The performance of the system is entirely dependent on the performance of our linebackers, not the other way around.

Wow. You're saying Parker's pass defense depends on the expertise of slower Iowa defenders (linebackers) covering the pass. You're also acknowledging opponents who are faster, more experienced, and probably more talented catching the pass are covered by a system in Parker's pass defense (DBs).

How'd that work late in the 4th against, for example, Arizona?
You might say it took a perfect pass to beat Greenwood.
If Greenwood were experienced with man-to-man coverage, Arizona's receiver might not have been so wide open, maybe Arizona's QB wouldn't have thrown it there, and maybe Greenwood would have done more to defend the pass catch. (Overall, Iowa's pass defenders are woefully inadequate in defending the pass catch).

By using simple logic, how can I not judge the merits of your post, tm3308?
More importantly, by using the same simple logic, how can I not judge the unsoundness of Parker's pass defense?

 

[homerHAWKeye777]

Wow. You're saying Parker's pass defense depends on the expertise of slower Iowa defenders (linebackers) covering the pass. You're also acknowledging opponents who are faster, more experienced, and probably more talented catching the pass are covered by a system in Parker's pass defense (DBs).

How'd that work late in the 4th against, for example, Arizona?
You might say it took a perfect pass to beat Greenwood.
If Greenwood were experienced with man-to-man coverage, Arizona's receiver might not have been so wide open and maybe Arizona's QB wouldn't have thrown it there.


By using simple logic, how can I not judge the merits of your post, tm3308?
More importantly, by using the same simple logic, how can I not judge the unsoundness of Parker's pass defense?

You simply don't get it, do you?

In '08 and '09, Iowa had one of the top pass-Ds in the country.

Iowa admittedly had to deal with a bit of a drop-off in 2010 ... however, a significant portion of that still due to PERSONNEL issues, not scheme issues. When you have young/inexperienced personnel, you cannot always consistently execute changes in scheme (relative to your base). As a result, to err on the side of caution, it's often better to execute what you can do consistently and do "fast."

Furthermore, you point out numbers, but what you do not examine is "outlying" data points. Take away but two games that are a bit of outliers (like the Mizzou and Michigan games) ... and all of a sudden, Iowa's pass D is good enough to be ranked in the 30s ... a jump of roughly 50 places!

Examine what Iowa's D is "built" to do. It is "built" to force opposing Os to EARN every last point. The implication there is that the opposition will have to execute long sustained drives against our D ... thereby reducing the number of overall scoring opportunities that either team will get. That then contributes to why Iowa Ds allow so few scores. Furthermore, most opposing Os simply cannot consistently sustain such long drives against our D ... thereby either stalling out OR turning the ball over.

When you rely heavily upon putting individual players on "islands" ... statistically speaking, that is recipe for giving up scores quickly. If you watch Iowa football closely, the coaches will situationally put players on islands ... however, they're also players who've proven that they can handle it. Had the original starting LBs remained healthy, you likely would have seen more situational use of press coverage after Micah Hyde got acclimated to the D. However, once Micah got used to the D ... our LBs were either already out or more were getting injured. Thus, we could no longer consistently pull off using such strategies.

If you watch college football outside of the Hawkeye sphere ... you'll notice that Iowa is not the only program that relies on LBs to cover WRs. The expectation is not for them to have cover for an exceptionally long time. But rather, they need to stay with the WRs long enough so that the DL can get at the QB and disrupt passing lanes.

 

[homerHAWKeye777]

As for "using" the athleticism of the CBs. The Hawks definitely use the athleticism of the personnel we have. Spievey's "athleticism" helped to shut down half the field ... all the while being terrific against the run. Fletcher and Godfrey were pretty much athletic freaks too ... and our D benefited from it too!

If a guy is athletic enough ... then we WILL use the guy in press coverage. Furthermore, in order to make A LOT of plays from our base ... you have to be athletic enough to recover from your pass-drops in order to come in and make plays against the run. Godfrey, Fletcher, Spievey, Prater, and Hyde have all done so. So will the next set of guys ....

 

[tm3308]

Wow. You're saying Parker's pass defense depends on the expertise of slower Iowa defenders (linebackers) covering the pass. You're also acknowledging opponents who are faster, more experienced, and probably more talented catching the pass are covered by a system in Parker's pass defense (DBs).

How'd that work late in the 4th against, for example, Arizona?
You might say it took a perfect pass to beat Greenwood.
If Greenwood were experienced with man-to-man coverage, Arizona's receiver might not have been so wide open, maybe Arizona's QB wouldn't have thrown it there, and maybe Greenwood would have done more to defend the pass catch. (Overall, Iowa's pass defenders are woefully inadequate in defending the pass catch).

By using simple logic, how can I not judge the merits of your post, tm3308?
More importantly, by using the same simple logic, how can I not judge the unsoundness of Parker's pass defense?

Like Homer said, in '08 and '09, we had one of the TOP pass defenses in the country. You base your opinion off of last season, when we had MULTIPLE injuries at linebacker. Of course we were going to experience a dropoff when that happened. But, feel free to b*tch and moan about how awful the scheme is all the time. That scheme has produced some of the top defenses in the nation over the past 11 years.

 

[cabse5]

You know, I'd be happy with the bend but don't break pass defense, the ugly pass defense, that stops the opposition. The problem is it breaks too often to be useful.

BBDB gives up the big pass play: Recently and off the top of my head, I can remember Arizona in 2010, Michigan State in 2009, Michigan in 2010, Penn State in 2009, and Ohio State in 2010. I'm sure I could provide more evidence with video assistance.

Then, again off the top of my head, there are the methodical passing drives Iowa always gives up to B1G offenses like Indiana and Northwestern (and Purdue when we play them). And for lord's sake, Wisconsin in 2010 - Don't try to convince me the Wisconsin game was lost because of a fake punt. Wisky still had to drive over half of the field after the fake.

in 2009, I can distinctly remember A.J. Edds having his back turned to an Indiana receiver who caught a TD in the endzone - would you consider A.J. to be part of a quality Iowa pass defense? He sure didn't show it on that play. Morris did the same last season against Indiana. Last season, I saw Michigan complete passes in the endzone against Iowa defenders who also had their backs turned to the play -That turned a route into a close game.

Are these flukes? Are these examples of bad coaching? Most every layman knows the endline in the endzone acts as another defender on a pass play.
IMO, in any pass situation, Iowa pass defenders are primarily taught to prevent opponent's receivers from gaining ground after the catch. IMO, they should be most worried about preventing the pass catch.

While Iowa uses the BBDB pass defense and opponents play keep away from Iowa's offense, a lot of Iowa's offensive opportunities are being missed - and the defense is getting dog tired.

I trust your motive is to make Iowa the best football team it can be. I don't, for example, love Parker, KOK, or Ferentz.

Finally, I base my observations/knowledge on 9 years of visual evidence of Iowa pass defense, from 2002 - 2010. The first time I realized Iowa had a pass defense problem was in 2002? against Purdue. Iowa held a big lead then had to hold on in the end. That was the game where Clark ran that inside screen for over 90 yards for a touchdown.

 

[tm3308]

You know, I'd be happy with the bend but don't break pass defense, the ugly pass defense, that stops the opposition. The problem is it breaks too often to be useful.

BBDB gives up the big pass play: Recently and off the top of my head, I can remember Arizona in 2010, Michigan State in 2009, Michigan in 2010, Penn State in 2009, and Ohio State in 2010. I'm sure I could provide more evidence with video assistance.

Then, again off the top of my head, there are the methodical passing drives Iowa always gives up to B1G offenses like Indiana and Northwestern (and Purdue when we play them). And for lord's sake, Wisconsin in 2010 - Don't try to convince me the Wisconsin game was lost because of a fake punt. Wisky still had to drive over half of the field after the fake.

in 2009, I can distinctly remember A.J. Edds having his back turned to an Indiana receiver who caught a TD in the endzone - would you consider A.J. to be part of a quality Iowa pass defense? He sure didn't show it on that play. Morris did the same last season against Indiana. Last season, I saw Michigan complete passes in the endzone against Iowa defenders who also had their backs turned to the play -That turned a route into a close game.

Are these flukes? Are these examples of bad coaching? Most every layman knows the endline in the endzone acts as another defender on a pass play.
IMO, in any pass situation, Iowa pass defenders are primarily taught to prevent opponent's receivers from gaining ground after the catch. IMO, they should be most worried about preventing the pass catch.

While Iowa uses the BBDB pass defense and opponents play keep away from Iowa's offense, a lot of Iowa's offensive opportunities are being missed - and the defense is getting dog tired.

I trust your motive is to make Iowa the best football team it can be. I don't, for example, love Parker, KOK, or Ferentz.

Finally, I base my observations/knowledge on 9 years of visual evidence of Iowa pass defense, from 2002 - 2010. The first time I realized Iowa had a pass defense problem was in 2002? against Purdue. Iowa held a big lead then had to hold on in the end. That was the game where Clark ran that inside screen for over 90 yards for a touchdown.

The bend but don't break works against the majority of the teams we play. A couple are able to take advantage of it (see: Northwestern and Indiana). But most teams make mistakes against it.

It breaks too often? What have you been watching the last 3 years? We allowed all of 12 TD passes this year, and just 9 in each of the previous two years. Our pass defense breaks more often when we have average coverage guys at linebacker. Imagine that? Average players yield less than stellar results?

Since 2001 (10 years), Iowa's pass efficiency defense has finished 45th or better eight times. In five of those years they were in the top 25.

Also, the defense has been ranked outside of the top 25 in scoring just twice in that span. Would the final tally of "breaks" not be the score?

Quarterbacks have to be VERY patient and execute in order to beat our defense. They have to really work to get the job done. The percentage of quarterbacks/offenses willing/able to do that is pretty small.

Is the defense going to shut down EVERYBODY, EVERY time? No, and it would be unrealistic to expect them to. The offense often fails to bail them out when they don't reach the gold standard defensively.

But whatever, blame the defense for our woes, ignore the fact that it's CONSISTENTLY a good unit.

Also, in regards to your comment about Edds: You remember all of one play where he got beat like that? You do know that everybody is going to make some mistakes every now and then, correct?

 

[homerHAWKeye777]

cabse5 -

Breaks too often? The production of Iowa's D through the years tells a VERY different tale. With Parker at the helm, Iowa regularly has a top 15 scoring D. That would suggest quite the opposite to your claim.

And you speak about Iowa having defenders having their backs to the ball ... that's simply what happens when a defender gets beat in coverage and is doing their best to catch up. Thus, they don't have time to swivel around and get a gander at the ball. And is it so bad getting beat? It isn't a good thing ... but look at some of the WRs who were "beating" Iowa deep. IU's Belcher and Doss were premier WRs ... and they beat plenty of high-quality DBs (let along, LBs). MSU's White beat plenty of high quality guys too ... and he already managed to play pretty well in the NFL as a rookie too! As for Michigan ... Iowa had gameplanned to stop a Denard Robinson led team ... so it was a huge contrast to have to defend against a precision-passer like Forcier. Furthermore, Michigan just so happens to have some of the best WRs in the Big 10 too.

Lastly, when you look at pass-oriented spread teams ... it's easy to say that Iowa has trouble against such teams. However, the fact of the matter is that such teams tend to be able to move the ball against EVERYBODY. For example, while Iowa has its difficulties with Northwestern, Iowa is not the only quality D that has its hands full when defending the Wildcats.

 

[ICHawk24]

That stats contradict your claims.

Lets see what the stats say about the 2010 Iowa pass defense, which most people think was "terrible".

I'm using stats from:
cfbstats.com - 2010 National

Iowa takes away the running game. Last year, 6th in the nation in yards allowed per game:
cfbstats.com - 2010 National Team Leaders

7th per attempt:
cfbstats.com - 2010 National Team Leaders

Allowing the 6th lowest total number of attempts:
cfbstats.com - 2010 National Team Leaders

Iowa allowed the fewest 20+ yard runs in the nation last year:
cfbstats.com - 2010 National Team Leaders

Teams give up on the run and decide to throw. Iowa was 110th out of 120 in pass attempts allowed (11th most in the country):
cfbstats.com - 2010 National Team Leaders

Iowa finished 25th in the country in yards per pass attempt, which is probably the stat with the highest correlation to winning:
cfbstats.com - 2010 National Team Leaders

24th in passer rating allowed:
cfbstats.com - 2010 National Team Leaders

Iowa allowed the 52nd most 20+ pass plays:
cfbstats.com - 2010 National Team Leaders

37th in 30+:
cfbstats.com - 2010 National Team Leaders

30th in 40+:
cfbstats.com - 2010 National Team Leaders

While they did give up some long pass plays, they had the 11th most pass attempts allowed, so their long pass play per play from scrimmage was relatively low.

So roughly the 25th best pass defense in the country, along with a top 10 run defense, in a crappy year.

I'd stick with the system.

 

[cabse5]

I realize I can't get some 'Hawkeye fans' to honestly examine this pass defense/pass containment 'problem' Iowa has. I've made peace with that. I'd still, however, like to see Iowa be the best football team it can possibly be - I'd like Iowa to be an elite football team - especially for the money the coaches are paid.

Why does Iowa's pass defense always have problems with football teams that have good passing attacks?
For example, Missouri, Indiana, NW, Arizona, and Purdue.
This a strong indicator of how poor Iowa's pass defense is.
BTW, three of those teams play Iowa quite sporadically, so that doesn't 'tarnish' Iowa's 'great' pass defense stats.

If we played them, I'd wager Iowa's pass defense would have problems with traditional pass oriented teams like, for example, Hawaii, BYU, and Houston - the opponent's record wouldn't matter.

I'd also wager traditional run-oriented team with good passing attacks would do well against Iowa's defense, for example, Stanford, Auburn, and Alabama. That is, if they passed.

By the same token, Iowa's run defense is great, period.
Traditional run-oriented teams with 'weak' passing attacks are 'gobbled up' by Iowa's run defense. Teams like Michigan State, Nebraska, and Georgia Tech.
Wisconsin used to be in this category until last season. Wisky learned, then successfully spread out their receivers against Iowa.

Side note - if I can figure this out, don't you think other offensive coordinators can also figure this out?

Anyway, traditional spread, run-oriented teams like tOSU are bottled up by Iowa's staunch run defense until Iowa's defense loses its gap integrity. tOSU - Pryor isn't good at passing.
For example, if Iowa played Oregon, there'd be the same result - bottled up until gaps break down. Oregon's pass offense isn't stellar either.

Iowa uses more players to stop the run. For example, Iowa's safeties are quite often used like linebackers to help stop the run.
Iowa contains the pass - Doesn't stop the pass.
Iowa's defense is top-heavy.
That was really successful against most traditional offenses of the 1970's.

 

[SLarew]

Your memory is foggy because Iowa did not have a big lead against Purdue in 2002. It was more a back and forth game. It was Penn State where we blew big lead but that was a very young pass defense, 2 freshmen CBs, that improved as season went on.

 

[tm3308]

I realize I can't get some 'Hawkeye fans' to honestly examine this pass defense/pass containment 'problem' Iowa has. I've made peace with that. I'd still, however, like to see Iowa be the best football team it can possibly be - I'd like Iowa to be an elite football team - especially for the money the coaches are paid.

Why does Iowa's pass defense always have problems with football teams that have good passing attacks?
For example, Missouri, Indiana, NW, Arizona, and Purdue.
This a strong indicator of how poor Iowa's pass defense is.
BTW, three of those teams play Iowa quite sporadically, so that doesn't 'tarnish' Iowa's 'great' pass defense stats.

If we played them, I'd wager Iowa's pass defense would have problems with traditional pass oriented teams like, for example, Hawaii, BYU, and Houston - the opponent's record wouldn't matter.

I'd also wager traditional run-oriented team with good passing attacks would do well against Iowa's defense, for example, Stanford, Auburn, and Alabama. That is, if they passed.

By the same token, Iowa's run defense is great, period.
Traditional run-oriented teams with 'weak' passing attacks are 'gobbled up' by Iowa's run defense. Teams like Michigan State, Nebraska, and Georgia Tech.
Wisconsin used to be in this category until last season. Wisky learned, then successfully spread out their receivers against Iowa.

Side note - if I can figure this out, don't you think other offensive coordinators can also figure this out?

Anyway, traditional spread, run-oriented teams like tOSU are bottled up by Iowa's staunch run defense until Iowa's defense loses its gap integrity. tOSU - Pryor isn't good at passing.
For example, if Iowa played Oregon, there'd be the same result - bottled up until gaps break down. Oregon's pass offense isn't stellar either.

Iowa uses more players to stop the run. For example, Iowa's safeties are quite often used like linebackers to help stop the run.
Iowa contains the pass - Doesn't stop the pass.
Iowa's defense is top-heavy.
That was really successful against most traditional offenses of the 1970's.

We realize that some people will choose to blame the defense for all the losses in 2010, and we've made peace with that. Now we will continue to argue our point (the OPPOSITE of "making peace").

We have trouble with the teams that design their passing offense around dinking and dunking. Do we need to make adjustments against those teams? Yes. But the overall scheme works just fine against the majority of teams that we play. Most teams want to try and stretch the field vertically. We make those teams pay for trying to go deep.

I honestly can't believe that you will keep b*tching about a defense that is consistently among the best in the country. That's not blind faith in Parker talking, that's results, which you seem intent on continuing to ignore.