Is Kirk Ferentz a Hall of Fame Coach?
- Thread starter JonDMiller
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Northside Hawk
Well-Known Member
I'm not advocating Hall of Fame, and he has coasted for seasons at a time, and he can occasionally come off as smug and contrived, and we fall for it more than we should, and his job was (correctly) up for some review following the hiring of Greg Davis and the 2012-2014 run, but if a sportswriter is going to criticize the bad, he has to recognize the good (2015 being most recent example). And if he is going to use the old 90 80 70 60 multiple choice grading scale to give Kirk's career a D minus than perhaps the same should apply to many other coaches and perhaps his own columns. Hayden Fry and Barry Alvarez, who are in the hall of fame had winning percentages at Iowa and Wisconsin respectively of .613 and .609. Bear Bryant gets a C+ on his grading scale (.780) Joe Paterno a C (.749) Bo Schembechler (.775) a C+. Bobby Bowden (.740) edges dangerously close to a C-. Woody Hayes (.761) a solid C. Nick Saban (.781) C+.These are about the best that college football has to offer for sample sizes of more than five years (sorry Jimmy Johnson) in the modern era. The best college winning percentage by far that I can think of (.837) for a sample size of more than ten years belongs to Barry Switzer but according to this criteria comes close to a B-. Barry freaking Switzer. Bottom line. It's not as easy as it looks.
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I don't like to judge people, I especially don't like to do it without considering everything.
I get that a coaches job is to win. Actually a better way to say it is to be successful.
I'm not going to sit here and try to excuse not winning more games, because excuses are for losers. I would however say that in just about every other way, besides winning a few more every year, KF has had a very successful career.
It's like saying an army doctor had less of a successful career then a Hollywood plastic surgeon. Did he really??? I bet many would argue for both sides, because there are several ways to look at it.
I get that a coaches job is to win. Actually a better way to say it is to be successful.
I'm not going to sit here and try to excuse not winning more games, because excuses are for losers. I would however say that in just about every other way, besides winning a few more every year, KF has had a very successful career.
It's like saying an army doctor had less of a successful career then a Hollywood plastic surgeon. Did he really??? I bet many would argue for both sides, because there are several ways to look at it.
JoeyLabasForPresident
Well-Known Member
Dabo Swinney has a .771 with a clear upward trajectory. He could very well end up being the GOAT in terms of winning percentage one day. That said, grading coaches on that scale is pretty dumb. Imagine if we graded batting averages that way.
SteveGarvey1
Well-Known Member
And that would matter if he was being considered for eventual sainthood. As it's just football and there are much shadier coaches than Kirk in the HOF, I'd say this is moot.
Kirk is a play it safe, win the winnable ones, keep the job for him and progeny...I just don't see average, play it safe, means anything like the HOF.
Predictable, reticent, entitled, vanilla, confusing sideline presence and leadership, excelling vs beat down opponents on the schedule...not the guy you want to win against the big boys on a consistent basis.
He is the type of coach who lasts 2-3 years in the NFL, NHL, SEC etc...but has 9 lives at Iowa...perfect fit.
As Allen Iverson's mom said...He I what he I...
Predictable, reticent, entitled, vanilla, confusing sideline presence and leadership, excelling vs beat down opponents on the schedule...not the guy you want to win against the big boys on a consistent basis.
He is the type of coach who lasts 2-3 years in the NFL, NHL, SEC etc...but has 9 lives at Iowa...perfect fit.
As Allen Iverson's mom said...He I what he I...
Northside Hawk
Well-Known Member
Tom Osbourne (.836) wasn't bad either but interestingly he was only 12-13 in bowl games. I didn't realize that anyone was that close to Switzer in career winning %, much less his chief rival. Of course Husker fans will tell you that all of Saint Tom's 49 career losses were the officials' fault.
NCHawker
Well-Known Member
That is a terrible article. I think I could have written a better article than that fragmented disorganized grabastic jumble of words.
Northside Hawk
Well-Known Member
And he doubles down in some of the post article comments and digs himself deeper. Does he even watch college football, let alone Iowa football? According to his standard many of the legendary college coaches in the history of the game are mediocre to below average.
Northside Hawk
Well-Known Member
Baseball players like Rusty Staub and Bill Buckner amassed somewhere around 2,700-2,800 base hits by staying in the game over 20 years. There are players with far fewer who are in the hall of fame but who had other credentials-and fewer mediocre seasons. Staub and Buckner aren't, shouldn't be and conversely neither should Ferentz. Hall of good to very good but not hall of fame.
Still think the Sonny Wooden article was a ridiculous dig however!
Robowe
Well-Known Member
I won't argue for Rusty Staub in the Hall of Fame, but this article (below) about him is great. Very underrated player. In today's 3 outcome baseball, imagine a player with 1,255 walks and 888 strikeouts. And, he was extremely popular in Canada and as a teammate.
Bill Buckner is another good example. Hell of a player and played through injuries like no other. But, as you mentioned, not Hall of Fame level. There's nothing wrong with that.
https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/...-most-underrated-players-in-baseball-history/
Even though I agree this article is poorly written, I agree with its sentiment. Iowa really has nothing in the way of the zealot fans that are needed to drive change. And that apathy extends into the UofI administration. No AD should be able to survive handing out those one sided contracts, coupled with the disappointment of the Men's basketball team this year. Then compounded by the schools legal issues that Barta is directly responsible for. If someone told me that no one in the school administration cared at all about the quality of the school's athletics. All signs would point to that person being right.
SteveGarvey1
Well-Known Member
If Kirk coaches 5+ more years and has the same level of success he's had, I think he'll get voted in.
The original post's title is ambiguous. Does it mean he deserves to be in or that he'll likely get in based on patterns of induction in the College Football HOF. Two different questions.
The original post's title is ambiguous. Does it mean he deserves to be in or that he'll likely get in based on patterns of induction in the College Football HOF. Two different questions.
Northside Hawk
Well-Known Member
The administration doesn't care about the quality as long as enough of the seats are filled to pay the bills.
Apathy is a good word to describe the average middle to high school age fan interest. I guarantee they don't make Iowa Football and Basketball appointment TV like us late forty and fifty somethings did decades ago.
Northside Hawk
Well-Known Member
Very good players. Solid pros. Decent role models. But not hall of famers. Just like our football coach, which is the whole point I tried to make when I brought the two of them up and also the point I think you were trying to make.
BigD
Well-Known Member
Honestly I really could careless who is in the HOF. Seriously, besides his family members, close friends, and former players who really cares?
I’ve always enjoyed following my favorite sports teams when they are on TV and I have time on my hands to do so. My time is precious to me and when I have some free time and a game is on I will watch the Hawkeyes. Between my very demanding career, a wife, three kids, cub scouts, and church related responsibilities, I have very limited free time.
So trying to keep track over some college coaches acceptance into the college football hall of fame just isn’t on my radar of things to waste my time on. With the mediocrity of Iowa athletics I am finding myself more and more having trouble justifying the allocating of time to follow them. That’s why I have grown weary of the status quo mentality. I want to follow a team that legitimately pursued excellance which would mean striving to win conference titles and not just lip servicing it.
Having achieved a level of high success in my profession I know the efforts that were required for me to do that. It took constant effort and a lot of moments of exceeding my comfort zone and a lot of introspection and evaluation. Then having the courage to challenge myself to make the changes necessary to achieve each plateau. Then looking to the next mountain to climb and the next plateau to reach for.
I can only hope that in the next two years I will get to watch Iowa football and basketball do the same. If not then I will have to move on and spend the small amount of free time that I have to find something more worth of my time.
I’ve always enjoyed following my favorite sports teams when they are on TV and I have time on my hands to do so. My time is precious to me and when I have some free time and a game is on I will watch the Hawkeyes. Between my very demanding career, a wife, three kids, cub scouts, and church related responsibilities, I have very limited free time.
So trying to keep track over some college coaches acceptance into the college football hall of fame just isn’t on my radar of things to waste my time on. With the mediocrity of Iowa athletics I am finding myself more and more having trouble justifying the allocating of time to follow them. That’s why I have grown weary of the status quo mentality. I want to follow a team that legitimately pursued excellance which would mean striving to win conference titles and not just lip servicing it.
Having achieved a level of high success in my profession I know the efforts that were required for me to do that. It took constant effort and a lot of moments of exceeding my comfort zone and a lot of introspection and evaluation. Then having the courage to challenge myself to make the changes necessary to achieve each plateau. Then looking to the next mountain to climb and the next plateau to reach for.
I can only hope that in the next two years I will get to watch Iowa football and basketball do the same. If not then I will have to move on and spend the small amount of free time that I have to find something more worth of my time.
Northside Hawk
Well-Known Member
Well according to your bio you have found enough free time to post 5,575 messages in the last eight years.
I'm with you as far as the demanding career and family life and extracurricular activities. I've posted how demanding it is. I've posted that's a miracle any marriage survives today because when spouses finally make time for each other they're too exhausted to take advantage of it. Kudos to you for making it all work.
But it took me less time to look up those coach's records than it did to read Sonny's dishrag of a column. And I had to put our man in some perspective because he is not a failure or a barely passable entity. He's just not quite a Hall of Fame coach. But he is no cesspool either, on or off the field. He's our man, for better or worse.
BigD
Well-Known Member
Well according to your bio you have found enough free time to post 5,575 messages in the last eight years.
I'm with you as far as the demanding career and family life and extracurricular activities. I've posted how demanding it is. I've posted that's a miracle any marriage survives today because when spouses finally make time for each other they're too exhausted to take advantage of it. Kudos to you for making it all work.
But it took me less time to look up those coach's records than it did to read Sonny's dishrag of a column. And I had to put our man in some perspective because he is not a failure or a barely passable entity. He's just not quite a Hall of Fame coach. But he is no cesspool either, on or off the field. He's our man, for better or worse.
I agree with your assessment of KF’s time at Iowa. I never felt he was a terrible coach nor a really great coach. The fact that he is our coach and the head of the football team means I will cheer for him to always win. Also since neither one of us have much say in whether he stays or goes then the choice is to cheer for your team regardless. What KF does is fine with some and not good enough with others.
I wouldn’t mind a change at the helm with a fresh approach to Iowa football. The odds of things getting worse under a new coach are probably 60/40 that it might get worse. However what are we talking about here? A team that falls from 7-5 to 6-6 ?
I brought up two years thinking that would give both coaches a chance to show what they really are about. Yes, 2015 was exciting but if we find that in 2019 that we are looking back and talking about about two more ho hum seasons with one great season (2015) surrounded by a sea of mediocrity then what fans supports such result? The participant trophy crowd?
SheldonHawk12
Active Member
At least spell his name right so you don’t sound so stupid
