Is KF's job to win football games or send bodies to the NFL?

[DarthKinnick]

Are these mutually exclusive duties?

I submit that it is good to have Hawkeyes in the NFL. But I wonder if a closer look is necessary at the TYPE of Hawkeyes who are in the NFL.

How many Iowa RBs are there in the NFL? WRs? "Athletes"? QBs?

I see a preponderance of linemen, TEs, LBs, and a few kickers, punters, and DBs.

If the coaching staff didn't destroy their own RBs in practice, how many Iowa RBs could there be/have been in the NFL?

Why so few QBs and WRs?

Why so few skill players in general?

So I clarify and then reiterate: Is KF's job to win football games or to send linemen, TEs, and LBs to the NFL?

 

[imported_ankle23]

how many state of iowa WRs, RBs, QBs (skill players) are in the NFL?

 

[hawkdrummer1]

The gap between these two things...defines Ferentz's shortcomings as a coach.

Good at developing guys in camp, can't gameplan or coach from the sidelines to save his azz. In essence, he's a outstanding assistant...in a Head Coaching position.

 

[DarthKinnick]

"how many state of iowa WRs, RBs, QBs (skill players) are in the NFL? "


is that a reply? don't exactly understand it.

Are you making the case that the staff is lousy at recruiting?

 

[imported_ankle23]

"how many state of iowa WRs, RBs, QBs (skill players) are in the NFL? "


is that a reply? don't exactly understand it.

Are you making the case that the staff is lousy at recruiting?

iowa is a tough place to recruit to. and a tough place to win at. that is all i am saying. what's iowa's competitive advantage? please list in detail. is it developing low star kids to NFL talent? that is one i can think of.

i've given this example before, but i'll do it again. in 2006 iowa had a recruiting class of 21, none were iowa kids until the end with vandevelde getting a full offer instead of a gray shirt offer.

that same year OSU had a class of 20, 10 of which were Ohio kids. Of those Ohio kids, 8 were 4 and 5 star guys, the other two were 3 star guys.

are you telling me the Ohio St. staff were better recruiters? for the most part, I'm guessing they could use their full time and attention to get those out of state guys they were gunning for given i'd bet that it wasn't too much effort to land the Ohio guys.......whereas KF and staff had to put their full time and attention on getting 20 out of state guys to come to iowa. which would be the tougher job?

so my point i was making about how many iowa born and raised kids are playing in the NFL is a valid one. when you have relatively none of those guys who are instate, ala OSU, it makes it tough to get them out of state as everyone wants those guys, typically.

regarding winning and KF and staff being lousy at game decisions........

he has the best record of success at iowa in your lifetime. 4 top 8 finishes, 1 BCS level bowl victory (i.e. orange, rose, fiesta, sugar) in 13 years.

fry had two #10 ranks to end the year and no bcs bowl-level victories in 20 years.

i only mention this due to all the revisionist history as to how great fry was at recruiting, how great fry was in his offense, how fry wouldn't stand for this, wouldn't stand for that, regarding KF and staff, etc, etc, etc, etc. and I think Fry was great. i love what he did at iowa. but to diminish the job KF is doing in comparison is unfair.


you have to go all the way back to Evy to find the better coach or better record of success, and he quit because of how hard it was to recruit to iowa. side note: my uncle played for him in the early 60s.

to answer the OP's question: the two ideas are tied - winning games and putting guys into the NFL. I think if you looked at iowa's best teams under KF, they have one thing in common - loads of NFL talent.

 

[hawkfarmer]

Ladell Betts was in the NFL for a long time, and Albert Young is there, as well as Shonn Greene. Keeping backs in the program would improve this number.

As for WR, when have we had a receiver with NFL talent, that is a recruiting issue to me. Those guys can be developed into good/great college receivers, but need raw talent to make it to the NFL.

As for QBS, a lot of colleges don't have a QB in the NFL, heck when is the last Alabama, MSU, Wisky etc. QB to play in the NFL? I don't know, but that is a tough position to have unless you have an elite QB. Only a few drafted every year.

 

[steveey]

Just to play devils advocate in support of Fry he also didn't have a BCS system to work with like KF does. It was Rose Bowl or nothing for him.

 

[HawkPrdatr40]

Win games

 

[smoot27]

iowa is a tough place to recruit to. and a tough place to win at. that is all i am saying. what's iowa's competitive advantage? please list in detail. is it developing low star kids to NFL talent? that is one i can think of.

i've given this example before, but i'll do it again. in 2006 iowa had a recruiting class of 21, none were iowa kids until the end with vandevelde getting a full offer instead of a gray shirt offer.

that same year OSU had a class of 20, 10 of which were Ohio kids. Of those Ohio kids, 8 were 4 and 5 star guys, the other two were 3 star guys.

are you telling me the Ohio St. staff were better recruiters? for the most part, I'm guessing they could use their full time and attention to get those out of state guys they were gunning for given i'd bet that it wasn't too much effort to land the Ohio guys.......whereas KF and staff had to put their full time and attention on getting 20 out of state guys to come to iowa. which would be the tougher job?

so my point i was making about how many iowa born and raised kids are playing in the NFL is a valid one. when you have relatively none of those guys who are instate, ala OSU, it makes it tough to get them out of state as everyone wants those guys, typically.

regarding winning and KF and staff being lousy at game decisions........

he has the best record of success at iowa in your lifetime. 4 top 8 finishes, 1 BCS level bowl victory (i.e. orange, rose, fiesta, sugar) in 13 years.

fry had two #10 ranks to end the year and no bcs bowl-level victories in 20 years.

i only mention this due to all the revisionist history as to how great fry was at recruiting, how great fry was in his offense, how fry wouldn't stand for this, wouldn't stand for that, regarding KF and staff, etc, etc, etc, etc. and I think Fry was great. i love what he did at iowa. but to diminish the job KF is doing in comparison is unfair.


you have to go all the way back to Evy to find the better coach or better record of success, and he quit because of how hard it was to recruit to iowa. side note: my uncle played for him in the early 60s.

to answer the OP's question: the two ideas are tied - winning games and putting guys into the NFL. I think if you looked at iowa's best teams under KF, they have one thing in common - loads of NFL talent.

How exactly are Lincoln Nebraska, Boise Idaho, Stillwater and Norman Oklahoma any better off? We should stop making excuses for mediocre seasons. We have the Mineapolis, St. Louis and Chicago markets right across the boarder without great programs in those states to compete with.

Fry didn't have BCS victories because he wasn't afforded the opportunity to go to the BCS with 2 losses like KF. Fry finished in the top 25 on a far more consistent basis his first decade as coach than KF. Not to mention Fry built the program from the decades of losing. KF didn't come into a great team, but Fry did give the program a better reputation to build from.

 

[CAARHawk]

As for QBS, a lot of colleges don't have a QB in the NFL, heck when is the last Alabama, MSU, Wisky etc. QB to play in the NFL?

Um, Greg McElroy, Brian Hoyer, and Scott Tolzien come to mind, with two of them still on playoff rosters. But I mean those are only the last graduated starter from each of those teams, so...

 

[imported_ankle23]

Just to play devils advocate in support of Fry he also didn't have a BCS system to work with like KF does. It was Rose Bowl or nothing for him.

ok, i'll be devils advocate too. how many 8-3 iowa teams under KF had the chance to go to a Rose bowl? (and two of those losses came from the 'lowly' clowns and gophers')...

 

[steveey]

I'm referring to BCS wins as you were referring to. People forget if KF had the bowl system that Fry had KF would have 0 BCS wins to his name. That's all I am saying. I'm not trying to slam KF as a coach. Fry didn't have the ability to finish 2nd or 3rd in the Big 10, and play in a BCS game.

 

[smoot27]

Just checked - Oklahoma only has 3 incoming recruits thus far from instate and Okie St. just one. Nebraska and Boise St only have 1 recruit from instate.

 

[DwayneTwill]

I couldn't care less about how many players end up in the NFL.

 

[imported_ankle23]

How exactly are Lincoln Nebraska, Boise Idaho, Stillwater and Norman Oklahoma any better off? We should stop making excuses for mediocre seasons. We have the Mineapolis, St. Louis and Chicago markets right across the boarder without great programs in those states to compete with.

you are really kidding about the oklahoma comparisons, aren't you? i'm guessing their rosters are made up in large part with kids from oklahoma and texas. stillwater - competitive advantages. you have heard of Pickens, right? he has given $500MM to OSU as of 2010. Iowa's top donor (single time biggest gift) has given $5MM. do you really compare iowa to OSU regarding competitive recruiting advantages? really? remember what Faith Ekakatie (sp) said in his blog about Iowa's facilities, dorm rooms, campus buildings? then think about Pickens and the $500MM again....

boise takes a ton of california kids that wouldn't otherwise qualify. as does Fresno State. that is their competitive advantage.

nebraska? iowa has a better record, i believe, over the past 10 years.

why don't those schools have great programs (st. louis, mpls, chicago)? does it have anything to do with the talent pools in the areas you list? i know ferentz once told a story about being on Fry's staff and what they thought of the chicago area recruiting base (overrated) and how many schools cherry pick those areas, makes the tough job tougher.

not sure where some of these expectations come from. we make fun of nebraska for similar talk - yet they DO have a rich tradition of conference and national championships......

 

[imported_ankle23]

Just checked - Oklahoma only has 3 incoming recruits thus far from instate and Okie St. just one. Nebraska and Boise St only have 1 recruit from instate.

bordering texas doesn't help either of those schools, does it......

or having a brand new campus for OSU, or the brand equity of Oklahoma.

 

[smoot27]

ok, i'll be devils advocate too. how many 8-3 iowa teams under KF had the chance to go to a Rose bowl? (and two of those losses came from the 'lowly' clowns and gophers')...

Um, those Gopher's teams were 6-5 those two years, similar to the Northwestern team that beat us our Orange Bowl season they just didn't get the soft preseason schedule NU did. Minnesota also knocked off Ohio State in '81 and they won the conference that year.

 

[smoot27]

you are really kidding about the oklahoma comparisons, aren't you? i'm guessing their rosters are made up in large part with kids from oklahoma and texas. stillwater - competitive advantages. you have heard of Pickens, right? he has given $500MM to OSU as of 2010. Iowa's top donor (single time biggest gift) has given $5MM. do you really compare iowa to OSU regarding competitive recruiting advantages? really? remember what Faith Ekakatie (sp) said in his blog about Iowa's facilities, dorm rooms, campus buildings? then think about Pickens and the $500MM again....

boise takes a ton of california kids that wouldn't otherwise qualify. as does Fresno State. that is their competitive advantage.

nebraska? iowa has a better record, i believe, over the past 10 years.

why don't those schools have great programs (st. louis, mpls, chicago)? does it have anything to do with the talent pools in the areas you list? i know ferentz once told a story about being on Fry's staff and what they thought of the chicago area recruiting base (overrated) and how many schools cherry pick those areas, makes the tough job tougher.

not sure where some of these expectations come from. we make fun of nebraska for similar talk - yet they DO have a rich tradition of conference and national championships......

Not sure why you think the Illinois market is so bad. They were ranked 10th last year for states with most recruits signed. Missouri was 22nd, Minnesota was 29 and Iowa was 31. Wisconsin was 36th and Bielema doesn't seem to have a problem competing every year.

 

[imported_ankle23]

Um, those Gopher's teams were 6-5 those two years, similar to the Northwestern team that beat us our Orange Bowl season they just didn't get the soft preseason schedule NU did. Minnesota also knocked off Ohio State in '81 and they won the conference that year.

i answered the posters question. mine was not answered.

how many 8-3 teams would go to the rose bowl today?

 

[ColumbusHawk]

iowa is a tough place to recruit to. and a tough place to win at. that is all i am saying. what's iowa's competitive advantage? please list in detail. is it developing low star kids to NFL talent? that is one i can think of.

i've given this example before, but i'll do it again. in 2006 iowa had a recruiting class of 21, none were iowa kids until the end with vandevelde getting a full offer instead of a gray shirt offer.

that same year OSU had a class of 20, 10 of which were Ohio kids. Of those Ohio kids, 8 were 4 and 5 star guys, the other two were 3 star guys.

are you telling me the Ohio St. staff were better recruiters? for the most part, I'm guessing they could use their full time and attention to get those out of state guys they were gunning for given i'd bet that it wasn't too much effort to land the Ohio guys.......whereas KF and staff had to put their full time and attention on getting 20 out of state guys to come to iowa. which would be the tougher job?

so my point i was making about how many iowa born and raised kids are playing in the NFL is a valid one. when you have relatively none of those guys who are instate, ala OSU, it makes it tough to get them out of state as everyone wants those guys, typically.

regarding winning and KF and staff being lousy at game decisions........

he has the best record of success at iowa in your lifetime. 4 top 8 finishes, 1 BCS level bowl victory (i.e. orange, rose, fiesta, sugar) in 13 years.

fry had two #10 ranks to end the year and no bcs bowl-level victories in 20 years.

i only mention this due to all the revisionist history as to how great fry was at recruiting, how great fry was in his offense, how fry wouldn't stand for this, wouldn't stand for that, regarding KF and staff, etc, etc, etc, etc. and I think Fry was great. i love what he did at iowa. but to diminish the job KF is doing in comparison is unfair.


you have to go all the way back to Evy to find the better coach or better record of success, and he quit because of how hard it was to recruit to iowa. side note: my uncle played for him in the early 60s.

to answer the OP's question: the two ideas are tied - winning games and putting guys into the NFL. I think if you looked at iowa's best teams under KF, they have one thing in common - loads of NFL talent.

+1

People don't understand that it is Iowa. Get over it!

I've used this example many times. This year, according to Scouts.com, Iowa only has three 3* or better recruits in-state. In contrast, Ohio has eighty-five 3* or better recruits.

Ohio State can win the national title by recruiting in a 180-mile radius of Columbus. A football program couldn't even be competitive recruiting in a 180-mile radius of Iowa City.

Because Iowa has no talent base, the Hawks go into places like Ohio and recruits players like Hyde & Stansi that Ohio State wasn't recruiting. Look at Bob Sanders. Neither Penn State nor Pittsburgh recruited him. Until Iowa got interested, Sanders' only scholarship offer was from Ohio University.

Basically, Iowa is limited in recruiting players the "home school" is not recruiting. There are exceptions to the rule like Ballard, Cayborn, Fiedorowicz, etc. But, generally, the Hawks don't go into places like Ohio & gets players Ohio State is recruiting.

Considering the demographics & the disadvantage of being in the Big Ten, Iowa has enjoyed remarkable success under Hayden & Ferentz.

I am not being an apologist. I am just stating facts & describing reality. Posters are upset with the two losses to Minnesota. However, Minnesota fans should be more upset. Since the Gophers' last Big Ten title, the Hawks have won five titles & that one title was shared with Iowa.

This year Minnesota has nine 3* recruits or better. Over the last ten years, according to a wonderful study done by the Omaha World-Herald, Minnesota has produced almost sixty-percent more Big Ten football players than Iowa.

http://www.omaha.com/article/20110820/SPORTS/708209729

http://www.omaha.com/article/20110820/SPORTS/708209797/-1

A high school hotbed - Omaha.com

http://omaha.com/assets/pdf/OW6104821.PDF

http://dataomaha.com/big-ten/

You look at the demographics & read the articles, the future of Iowa football doesn't look very promising.