Reason I ask is that when a shooter becomes gun shy it's hard to fix that. He had no less then 5 catch and shoot opportunities and didn't even look at the rim. And since that's the case all he's in there for is defense. Which he did pretty well at actually. But you can't have a shooter passing up shots. There were a handful of possessions where not only he but Uthoff and Jok also passed up shots. The only way I'm ok with any of those 3 passing up shots is if they are hooking someone else up with a layup. And that wasn't the case any of those times. If your a shooter you shoot. I think Josh has lost confidence now. Of all the things that looked off to me with the team last night that frustrated me the most. When your a shooter and your open in the flow of the O you shoot it. Period. Not taking those looks bogs down the O and inevitably it ends up being a poor shot being chucked up later because of it...
Is JO is done?
- Thread starter Hawkfnntn
- Start date
HawkeyeMike23
Banned
JO is been done
1hawkeye1
Well-Known Member
Sorry to say, it's true. I'm sure he's a good team mate and person. Just not a good D1 bb player.
deanvogs
Well-Known Member
I'd just have a guard rotation of Gesell, Jok and Clemmons at this point.
I don't want to be too harsh on a kid who poured countless hours of blood, sweat, and tears into the program over the last 4 years.....but he was a top 125 kid coming out of HS, I thought he would have produced more for Iowa over these 4 years.
I don't want to be too harsh on a kid who poured countless hours of blood, sweat, and tears into the program over the last 4 years.....but he was a top 125 kid coming out of HS, I thought he would have produced more for Iowa over these 4 years.
HawkeyeMike23
Banned
It's sad that this quote applies so well to both Mike and JO. Saying both have been disappointments is a huge understatement.
Jok and Uthoff should be pulled from the game every time they pass up an open shot. That's the best way to pound it into their heads that it's unacceptable. Jok had already made a couple long shots and he was 7-10 in the last 2 games from 3 and he passes up a wide open 3 for a tournover. Other than a wide open layup, a wide open 3 from Jok or Uthoff is by far our most efficient shot selection.
STILLBUSTER
Well-Known Member
You're just now asking this?
OSU = 3/6, 27 min
Neb = 0/2, 25 min
MSU = 0/1, 20 min
Minny = 1/3, 21 min
OSU = 1/2, 21 min
Wisky = 2/3, 19 min
Pur = 1/5, 23 min
Wisky = 0/1, 23 min
Mich = 0/1, 12 min
Mary = dnp
Minny = 0/0, 11 min
10 Big14 games, he's averaging 2.4 attempts in 20.2 minutes. Jok has 2.4 attempts in the first 5 possessions of the game!!
Oglesby doesn't even want to be on the floor, let alone touch the ball.
On a positive note, it only took 2-1/2 seasons for Fran to realize all those empty minutes and actually do something about it. So, taking the last couple games into consideration, I completely expect Fran to include Oglesby in his inept, 2nd platoon rotation and have him on the floor by 15 minutes at Northwestern. (That Fran, he's a tricky one the way he baits the other team into respecting Oglesclank as a shooter.)
OSU = 3/6, 27 min
Neb = 0/2, 25 min
MSU = 0/1, 20 min
Minny = 1/3, 21 min
OSU = 1/2, 21 min
Wisky = 2/3, 19 min
Pur = 1/5, 23 min
Wisky = 0/1, 23 min
Mich = 0/1, 12 min
Mary = dnp
Minny = 0/0, 11 min
10 Big14 games, he's averaging 2.4 attempts in 20.2 minutes. Jok has 2.4 attempts in the first 5 possessions of the game!!
Oglesby doesn't even want to be on the floor, let alone touch the ball.
On a positive note, it only took 2-1/2 seasons for Fran to realize all those empty minutes and actually do something about it. So, taking the last couple games into consideration, I completely expect Fran to include Oglesby in his inept, 2nd platoon rotation and have him on the floor by 15 minutes at Northwestern. (That Fran, he's a tricky one the way he baits the other team into respecting Oglesclank as a shooter.)
MelroseHawkins
Well-Known Member
I hope at least he has one meaningful game where he just tears it up with like 6 3 pointers. I hate to see young guys struggle. It's stress they really don't deserve, but it's the world of college sports. He seems to be a hell of a horse player and can hit them in practice when the pressure is off a bit, but live D1 game action seems to be too much for him.
Wonder if he gets more tired running off screens & trying to get open in games. Again, I wish he would just have a break-out game to keep his spirits up.
Wonder if he gets more tired running off screens & trying to get open in games. Again, I wish he would just have a break-out game to keep his spirits up.
Couple things here. Mike at least has some good games sprinkled in. Oges doesn't. Also there are no better options for pg. We have no choice to play him. It really sucks to say but there is a very good chance we win last night if Oges was still sick. That's not to say he was the only problem. But our offense goes to crap when he is in there and the other guys would have gotten a few more minutes. We only needed 1 or 2 more baskets to win.
deanvogs
Well-Known Member
It is a double edge sword I think. They just got done playing the best 2 games of the year back to back by making the extra pass and reversing the ball. As Speraw had scouted and pointed out, that if the team makes the extra pass and reverses the ball like 3 times the team shots like 60% from the field. I felt like they did pass up some early open looks, and then it seemed like every time they did they turned it over.
Everything seemed just way out of sync for this game. I don't think Jok and Uthoff pass up enough open shots to start getting on them for running the offense trying to get better looks (unlike a Ogs who won't shoot no matter what).
HawkeyeMike23
Banned
Barkley was right, analytics are for dorks. How did those fancy stats work out for us last night? We passed the ball around a hell of a lot and sure didn't shoot no 60%.
deanvogs
Well-Known Member
I think passing the ball is an ok thing to do, but I really think we should have passed it less to the Goofers though.
He's made 5 shots in the last 9 games he's played in. Ouch. Has anyone else noticed that when he comes running off a screen and looks like he's going to be wide open for 3, he catches to ball and then squares up to the basket (instead of doing both in one motion like everyone else does). That extra second gives the defense a chance to catch up. It's like he does itbon purpose to avoid having to shoot. It's bad enough that he passes up a few open shots a game. When you factor in how many open shots he could get if he catches the ball ready to shoot, he's probably giving up 5 or 6 3 point attempts per game. You just cant have your shooting guard do that.
HawkeyeMike23
Banned
I think we should have guys who want to take and make shots instead of guys who want to pass because that's what the stats say to do.
WindsorHawk
Well-Known Member
This is from the DSM Register article.
In the midst of a three-game losing streak, which started with a 32-point loss at Wisconsin when the Hawkeyes were a textbook case of inefficiency, assistant coach Kirk Speraw crunched some numbers in an attempt to improve the offense. He broke down all of Iowa's Big Ten games to that point of the season.
Possessions where Iowa scored in transition, or ran set plays, weren't included. Only those in the motion offense were charted. Iowa was scoring on just 29 percent of the possessions in which it made zero to two passes. But they scored on approximately 65 percent of the possessions in which three or more passes were made. And when the ball moved from wing to wing, the success rate grew to the mid-70s.
But this won't work if we're making lazy passes like last night. Stick to this and make good crisp passes and we'll be fine.
In the midst of a three-game losing streak, which started with a 32-point loss at Wisconsin when the Hawkeyes were a textbook case of inefficiency, assistant coach Kirk Speraw crunched some numbers in an attempt to improve the offense. He broke down all of Iowa's Big Ten games to that point of the season.
Possessions where Iowa scored in transition, or ran set plays, weren't included. Only those in the motion offense were charted. Iowa was scoring on just 29 percent of the possessions in which it made zero to two passes. But they scored on approximately 65 percent of the possessions in which three or more passes were made. And when the ball moved from wing to wing, the success rate grew to the mid-70s.
But this won't work if we're making lazy passes like last night. Stick to this and make good crisp passes and we'll be fine.
I think this should definitely be the general rule. Exceptions to the rule should be when Jok or Uthoff are wide open for 3 (not long 2's) before 3 passes.
deanvogs
Well-Known Member
It isn't like quick chucking was working for this team either. I'm not a fan of the motion offense, but if you are going to run the motion, you had better make some passes, and actually run the offense, to get open looks.
I'm not a fan of the motion, because it does take a lot of passes on many of your possessions to get the open looks that you want. It leads to exposing yourself to TO, and such like last night. I'd much rather see a offense that spread the floor more, like 99% of the offenses in college BB today.
HawkeyeMike23
Banned
Maybe we should get some real assistant coaches instead of wannabe mathematicians like Sparew seems to be. We passed the ball a lot last night and it didn't work, I don't need numbers to see that, just the ol' eye test tells you that.
WindsorHawk
Well-Known Member
I find myself wanting both of them to shoot more open 3s as well. But I'm a numbers guy and over 70% is going to get it done night in and night out. That open 3 should still be there after 2 or 3 passes if a layup or dunk doesn't materialize. Last night the passing was bad so it naturally seems like a quick open shot made sense...in hind sight. I still think running the offense is the better option.
Note that transition plays and set plays are not included. So a wide open 3 in transition or on a set play is an entirely different story.
deanvogs
Well-Known Member
Basically all Speraw said was move the freaking ball, and run the offense, the shots will be there if you do that. I'd even be willing to bet he lied about running the numbers, and just made some numbers up to stress his point.
As I said, passing the ball = good. Passing the ball to the opponent = Bad. If we are stuck with the motion offense we need to effectively pass and move the ball (not turn it over all the time).
