Is it time to replace Doyle?

[HawkeyeNutz]

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it's funny how coaches (strength coaches as well) are better with better players.......

I don't always agree with imported; but this comment is spot on. Coach Doyle is only going to be as good as the talent he has to work with. This doesn't mean that the kids (regardless of talent level) aren't working hard. It just means they may have reached their full potential.

 

[CPHAWK82]

You mean that exercise that they don't do any more that builds explosiveness? Coincidence?... Hmmm.

It was a workout Kirk had them do once every 4 years. Kirk said he thought a player should do it at least "once" in their time at Iowa. It was more of a mental hurdle to overcome such a hard workout. It wasn't part of the weekly routine. It's very apparent the level of athlete has dropped of by quite a bit over recent years and it's catching up. This past year we saw it rapidly catch up to the linebacker position and the Hawks got killed on the edge runs because of it. You also need guys to buy into the program. A guy like Spearman who appeared to have the natural physical tools never settled in and seemed checked out before season was even over. Another guy like Laron Taylor who had some speed transferred. That left some 2 star and walk ons to work with.

 

[NCHawker]

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it's funny how coaches (strength coaches as well) are better with better players.......

Yes. Saw the coach at the cigar shop yesterday, we touched on good players make good coaches.

He took a call - I gathered that he was talking to a coach in another conference....heard him remind that coach to stick with his (recruiting) game plan. Said that its easy to get distracted ..he said, I came across a running back that I really liked, but had to stop myself, that's not what we need right now. Another guy came in, sat down and the convo went in another direction.

 

[azhawkeyefan]

10 - 15 years ago Iowa had a distinct advantage with S&C, Iowa was ahead of their time. I think the main problem is that everyone else caught up to them. I still think Doyle is one of the best, however now everyone else is doing it......................but with better athletes to begin with. I think it was maybe David Schultz that brought this up, but I think it rings true. The old philosophy of "Hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard". Maybe that was true 10 - 15 years ago, however now across the country all that "talent" is working just as hard.

 

[Billso]

As a consequence of the rhabdo problem, I thought I read that the U of I had completely backed away from the uses of supplements. The U of I feared a potential lawsuit. If that's the case, I can see how the program is falling behind what other schools are doing.

Did some looking and couldn't find that anywhere. Let us know if you do. Only found an ESPN article speculating on that as a cause.

I did find this in the detailed Regents report: "over‐the‐counter drugs, prescription drugs, illegal drugs (no players reported using these agents and drug tests support these reports), energy drinks, pre‐workout drinks, supplements (creatine, carnitine), licorice, or alcohol were not associated with acquiring rhabdo."

http://www.asac.arkansas.gov/pdfs/r...niversity_of_Iowa_Board_of_Regents_Report.pdf

 

[NCHawker]

while we're at it....lets not forget the audio visual coordinator ....that dude is probably due for replacement as well. You could see that the team seemed surprised by what other teams did. It's all about watching film. I'll bet its in black and white, and it was clear to me that Tennessees orange had them stumped. I'm guessing the guy got fat and happy with film and never moved up to the cutting edge technology of VHS. Or maybe he has a warehouse full of etch a sketches that show formations.

 

[Sparky]

while we're at it....lets not forget the audio visual coordinator ....that dude is probably due for replacement as well. You could see that the team seemed surprised by what other teams did. It's all about watching film. I'll bet its in black and white, and it was clear to me that Tennessees orange had them stumped. I'm guessing the guy got fat and happy with film and never moved up to the cutting edge technology of VHS. Or maybe he has a warehouse full of etch a sketches that show formations.

Nice try.

 

[DodgerHawki]

I'm not questioning his commitment to Iowa football, it's obviously there and most former players feel the same as Matt Bowen. Why shouldn't they? They don't know any different.

The question is, does he still have the knowledge and ability to keep Iowa ahead of the pack in terms of strength and conditioning. Remember, he did put 13 athletes in the hospital with his archaic workout and the team hasn't looked the same since.

It's fair to say that the edge provide by the S&C program at Iowa isn't as great as it might have been 10-12 years ago. I would argue it's not the fault of Doyle, it's the fact that S&C across the board in big-time college FB has improved a great deal. When you look at guys like Hitchens (a lightly recruited RB from Ohio who ends up as a NFL linebacker) or Kirksey (a HS defensive back ends up as an NFL LB), or any number of the o-line and d-line projects who end up being really good, it's obvious that Doyle's methods work. But if the other guy has equal or better talent to start with (and a top-notch S&C program as well) then the advantage Iowa had in that area is dissipating (or not as large as it once was).

Just my 2 cents.

 

[Knight78]

In this day and age of cryptic abbreviations, emoticons, 140 char twitter and text msgs with all types of grammatical shortcuts and you are complaining about someones punctuation and grammar on this site. I leave out quotes, single possessive quotes and misspell sometimes as typos that I dont fix , oh see i just left out an apostrophe but I bet you understand what I wrote, if the spelling is close enough. Hey I am in a hurry sometimes to get my great ideas out to the HN publick. oops did it again.

Agreed. I have always felt that pointing out errors in grammar, punctuation and spelling are very telling. Arguing syntax instead of content, usually because they don't have any rebuttal to the points you make that contain the errors in grammar, punctuation and spelling.

 

[Tiptontiger]

You guys kill me, He has lost his edge. You know that how ? Lifting is not rocket science, He has these kids on individual programs. Some have to set a alarm to get up in the middle of the night to eat. He didn't put 13 guys in the Hospital. That's not how it came down. Its is the same program the had used for years. Sorry guys your just really reaching because of your KF hate. Every player went through it at some point in his time at Iowa. I do think its possible that they had to back off on conditioning because of the bad PR.

Dude, you do have some serious writing, punctuation, spelling issues. Need to work on those...

 

[LASBUR]

Dude, you do have some serious writing, punctuation, spelling issues. Need to work on those...

If you read my reply you know I already know that. But Thanks.

 

[hawkinn3]

He does a good job but I never liked the creepy amount of praise Doyle received. He isn't better or worse than most S&C coaches out there he was just getting the credit in an era where we turned a few unheralded recruits into NFL guys.

 

[hawkeyebob62]

I'm sorry, but this post is rife with uninformed speculation. I'm not saying Chris Doyle is the greatest strength coach of all time, but there is no such thing as a strength program that can turn mediocre talents into great football players. I know that people loved to view guys like Bob Sanders as products of a great workout program but if it were that simple, Iowa would have a limitless supply of Bob Sanders' every single year. They haven't had one since. It doesn't matter how good the workout is, how much stronger, faster, bigger, a guy gets if it still isn't good enough based on their ability.

I've noticed that some fans like to pretend that good linemen just need to be big and strong. Being big and strong are the two easiest things one can accomplish with the right frame, diet, and workout routine. Having good footwork, understanding leverage, etc., is much harder and isn't always teachable. Talent plays a big role.

Surely I'm not the only person around here who played football with some weight room warriors who still failed on the football field. Conversely, I'm sure I'm not the only person who witnessed guys who were pathetic in the gym but could utterly ruin people on the football field.

The weight room can make somebody a lot better, but it can't produce a good football player when there's not enough to work with from the get-go.

Bob Sanders's situation points to another factor: heart/desire/competitiveness.

How many times have we wondered why a kid quits after freshman or sophomore year (or even later) and talk about why he never panned out? Or wonder why a kid never seemed to reach his potential?

Heart/desire/competitive nature can be a HUGE factor in that. Bob Sanders simply refused to be a not-quite-as-fast as others, refused to be less than what he could be on the football field. Others may get to school and decide it's not worth it, or that they are content to give their best, but don't really care about being "the" best. Not a knock on them. Everyone has to find their way.

As Gordon Gekko said, "You think the difference between that guy, and THAT guy, is luck?"

In these instances we might ask, "Is the difference between that kid, and THAT kid, talent?" Some times, yes, but often times a kid just works like a maniac and stretches his talent and physical attributes to the limit.

 

[HomerChampless]

I'm not trying to stalk you, bob, although it may appear that way because 2 of my most recent posts are reactions to something you've posted...

I don't think a lack of fanaticism is a problem anyone on the Iowa staff or players possess (Spearman might have been an exception). In other words if something doesn't work, Iowa footballers apply more of the same technique with the same if not more emphasis. That's fanaticism and Iowa football has that in spades.

Sometimes someone may lack one of more of the basic ingredients to be successful and all the additional 'fanaticism' won't be successful if the basic ingredients aren't there. If the essential ingredients to, for example, conservative football are there, it's so easy to be successful (if sometimes ugly).

Iowa strives for conservative football. Conservative football absolutely needs, at least, a strong defense, a running game, and positive field position. If any of those, IMO, tenets of conservative football are out of whack, conservative football won't be successful even though teams still try.

How does the Iowa staff react when one of the tenets of conservative football aren't met? Maybe they've waited for a reload. Maybe they've waited too long. Maybe they think the process of following conservative football is more important than wins and in the end conservative football will lead Iowa to more successful seasons.

I don't think the Iowa staff can be found at fault when loving conservative football. I think the Iowa staff can be found at fault for not reacting (or realizing) when the team doesn't have the basic ingredients to win at conservative football.

The 2015 season will be another one where Iowa won't have, at least, one of the main ingredients for successful conservative football. Unfortunately, I know how the staff will react.

 

[NCHawker]

At its heart, its a recruiting failure and a talent issue. Kirk could field a good team, but until an unless he has the players to do it, its not happening.

 

[HomerChampless]

Things (wins) might be easier with more athletes. I like more athletes.

You're saying KF can only be successful if Iowa has athletes. I disagree. From my count, Iowa has had 1 or 2 'high' recruiting classes, and maybe 3 or 4 'good' recruiting classes in KF's 16 years. That means 2+4 = 6 and KF would only have 6 good teams (because of recruits) in his 16 years. Some of those 'higher' recruiting classes actually didn't pan out due to injury, transfer, attitude, etc. It seems KF has had a few more than 6 good teams... It seems KF has more success with 'lower' rated recruiting classes. A lot of talent also comes to Iowa from player development.

This is yet another side note, I know, but how coaches use players is as important as their athletic ability. In 2015 there will initially be, IMO, issues with Iowa's DL, LBs, and DBs. The whole defense? How will Iowa stop the other's offense, then? Certainly not head to head. With stunts, blitzes, double teams, stacks, and zone defenses. The offensive line in 2015 may never be able to open holes for RBs so there may be a need for more passing. I want to say just win, baby, but I know that's not the right way to win at Iowa football.

I look at your signature, hawker, which says that's football. I think I know what KF means. KF wants to follow conservative football and sometimes that doesn't lead you to a win. Following the formula is more important. That's (conservative) football.