Iowa's "Lack of Talent"

storminspank

storminspank

Justin VanLaere
This is BS.

I keep reading from different journalists, posters, etc... that Iowa doesn't have the talent to compete. What horsecrap.

I heard the same damn thing this fall when people were talking about the Iowa football team. It's an ok team, but there aren't any great athletes on that team, blah blah blah.

This Iowa BB team DOES have talent.

Cully Payne is a very talented PG (makes frosh mistakes, but has the talent).
Eric May is one of the most athletic players in the Big Ten.
Matt Gatens would start on any other Big Ten team.
A healthy Fuller has proven what he can do in the Big Ten.
Cole, when given a chance, is effective as well on the boards and down low.
Even Cougill has shown flashes at the Big Ten level.

Call me out for standing up for the guys on this team, but some people think we are working with DIII talent here, and it's not the case.

The issue is the depth. Iowa has talented ball players. They just need a little more help. That Top 30 class is going to help out.

We've got talent on this team, it's too bad people can't see that sometimes.
 
GhostofBTT said:
Depth is part of the lack of talent Spank. You know that.
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No it's not. They are too completely different things.

Lack of Depth.
Lack of Talent.

Not remotely the same.

This team has a Lack of Depth. It does not have a Lack of Talent. The players that ARE on the team are talented... and some people have a hard time seeing or admitting that.
 
If we had more talented players, we would have more depth. SOME players have talent, but the number of talented players is less than other teams.

They are the same thing.
 
GhostofBTT said:
If we had more talented players, we would have more depth. SOME players have talent, but the number of talented players is less than other teams.

They are the same thing.
Click to expand...

No they're not. They're isn't anyone the caliber of the starting five on the bench who could come into the game without a considerable dropoff. There isn't another guy like Payne who could come in and do the things that Payne does.

Ohio State is a deep team, and that proved evident last night over the last 4 minutes. Iowa is not a deep team, and that proved evident over the last 4 minutes last night.
 
Spank and Ghost - you are arguing two different points here.

All spank is saying is that certain players on Iowa's team have talent. He is talking about individual player talent which has nothing to do with the depth of the rest of the team

Ghost is arguing something completely different - you are lumping the whole teams depth into the talent discussion which has nothing to do with what Spank is arguing. The fact that Iowa doesnt have 12 talented players has nothing to do with the fact that Spank says the top 6 have talent.
 
Ghost and Spank: You guys are arguing semantics.

Spank: I think you are on the right track but I think you are confusing talent for potential. There is no question we do not have the same talent as the other teams we play. If we did we would have won more games. When it comes down to it winning games comes down to talent and coaching. If you truly believe we have the same or more talent than other teams then the only other option is we get out coached on a nighly basis, and I don't think you belive that to be true.

Are we as talented as most other B10 teams? No. Do we have the potential to be as talented in the future? Yes.
 
GhostofBTT said:
If we had more talented players, we would have more depth. SOME players have talent, but the number of talented players is less than other teams.

They are the same thing.
Click to expand...

I guess you are missing the point or just disagreeing for the sake of disagreement.

I am talking about the talent on the team. People are saying Payne, May, Gatens, Cougill, Cole, Fuller aren't talented. That they aren't Big Ten material. That's what is being said. Iowa doesn't have talent.

That is completely different than saying Iowa is undermanned or doesn't have depth. I don't know how else I can explain to you the difference. There's a huge disparity between "depth" and "talent".
 
Ohio State doesn't have any depth.


May and Payne are not given enough credit for how good and athletic they are. That is a good observation.
 
Who do you think Matt Gatens would start ahead of on OSU? Lighty? Turner? Buford? Diebler?...who would he start ahead of on MSU? Morgan? Roe? Summers? Lucas?
who would he beat out on Purdue? Or Minny? Or wisky?

I like Matt and just because he would not start on those teams does not mean he is untalented or not a Big Ten player. I really do not see many folks claiming that our starting five are not Div 1 players or even Big Ten players...but just saying we have talent is not allowing for degrees of talent. Can we definitely project this group of players as being good enough to bypass the teams we need to leapfrog to make the tourny next year? That would be Michigan,NW,Illinois,IU,PSU and maybe Wisky?

That is all that matters...not if we have talent, but if we have enough talent to jump into the top tier by next year or the following year at the latest.
That is a hard call,imo. A lot of those teams are expecting to improve themselves next year..especially PSU,NW,IU and Illinois. Talent is relative...we can improve our talent but still lose ground in the league. And then this discussion will be moot.
 
storminspank said:
I guess you are missing the point or just disagreeing for the sake of disagreement.

I am talking about the talent on the team. People are saying Payne, May, Gatens, Cougill, Cole, Fuller aren't talented. That they aren't Big Ten material. That's what is being said. Iowa doesn't have talent.

That is completely different than saying Iowa is undermanned or doesn't have depth. I don't know how else I can explain to you the difference. There's a huge disparity between "depth" and "talent".
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Who is saying May, Gatens, etc aren't talented?

They are talented. Maybe not as talented as players on OSU's team, but it is absurd to say they are not talented enough to be Big 10 players. ANyone who makes that argument can be dismissed immediately.
 
A lot of good points from above.

Yes, it's a semantics argument for sure.

Duff - If I had to do an apples to apples comparison. Iowa's Top 6 players, as a group, I'd put somewhere in the middle of the Big Ten. They aren't on the same level as OSU, MN, MSU, Wisc, or Purdue. But after those guys, Iowa's Top 6 are right there. The issue remains that the depth is killing Iowa, not the talent that is on the court. You make excellent points.

JH - particularly good point regarding having enough talent. It is, for sure, a tough call. It's one that will decide on whether or not Lickliter retains his job. This 2010 class will seal Todd's fate one way or another.
 
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DuffMan said:
Ghost and Spank: You guys are arguing semantics.

Spank: I think you are on the right track but I think you are confusing talent for potential. There is no question we do not have the same talent as the other teams we play. If we did we would have won more games. When it comes down to it winning games comes down to talent and coaching. If you truly believe we have the same or more talent than other teams then the only other option is we get out coached on a nighly basis, and I don't think you belive that to be true.

Are we as talented as most other B10 teams? No. Do we have the potential to be as talented in the future? Yes.
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DUFFMAN very well put.
 
One point remains, and let me reiterate it from weeks past.

It feels so damn good to actually TALK Iowa basketball again with Iowa basketball fans. These boards can get ugly at times. It's just nice to actually be able to argue/debate Iowa BB. It's been a while since we've been able to do just that. It makes coming to these boards much easier and fun.

Thanks to all of you for engaging in some meaningful banter for once. ;)
 
GhostofBTT said:
If we had more talented players, we would have more depth.
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How do you come to that conclusion?

Depth is a numbers game. If our current players were more talented, we would still have the same number of players on the team, hence the same amount of depth.

If you are referring to talented depth, I would agree on that. We can put a decent starting 5 on the floor, but our bench doesn't have a whole lot to come in and give the starters a break without seeing a dropoff. I think that should change next year with the addition of the 4 newcomers, and that is IF everyone stays around for next year (no transfers).
 
1977Hawkeye said:
How do you come to that conclusion?

Depth is a numbers game. If our current players were more talented, we would still have the same number of players on the team, hence the same amount of depth.

If you are referring to talented depth, I would agree on that. We can put a decent starting 5 on the floor, but our bench doesn't have a whole lot to come in and give the starters a break without seeing a dropoff. I think that should change next year with the addition of the 4 newcomers, and that is IF everyone stays around for next year (no transfers).
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You are kind of making my point. We can put a decent starting 5 on the floor. We have one talented player on the bench. Everyone else on the bench is dreck.

Lick knows this. Look at the minutes played last night. The "talented" players all got tons of minutes. Then they wore down at the end of the game. Lick knows that if he puts John, Bawinkle, or Brommer out there, the TALENT level will drop dramatically.

That is my point. We only have the talent for a 6 man rotation. We have one player talented enough for a spot start.
 
storminspank said:
One point remains, and let me reiterate it from weeks past.

It feels so damn good to actually TALK Iowa basketball again with Iowa basketball fans. These boards can get ugly at times. It's just nice to actually be able to argue/debate Iowa BB. It's been a while since we've been able to do just that. It makes coming to these boards much easier and fun.
Click to expand...

I've been watching, not adding much, I agree. more than anything, I'm happy for the players and coaches. Still a long way to go but you can see things starting to click, very proud of them.
 
Here would be a better way to compare our talent to the rest of the big 10. Who has a more talented freshman and sophmore class than we do?

I like our chances in a F/S game with the starting lineup of Culley, Gatens, May, Cougs, Fuller against anyone else in the Big10.
 
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