Iowa's current recruiting ranking according to this site

[PCHawk]

What's worse, a fan who thinks calling something they have no control over "unacceptable" somehow helps the program? Or a fan who thinks other fans not calling something they have no control over "unacceptable" somehow hurts the program?

I'd be willing to bet very few people on here get more mad when we lose and more happy win we win than I do. I can't even watch the games around anyone that doesn't act as dumb as I do out of pure embarrassment. At least I can hang my hat on going back into a mature adult an hour or so after the game.

 

[BigD]

What's worse, a fan who thinks calling something they have no control over "unacceptable" somehow helps the program? Or a fan who thinks other fans not calling something they have no control over "unacceptable" somehow hurts the program?

I'd be willing to bet very few people on here get more mad when we lose and more happy win we win than I do. I can't even watch the games around anyone that doesn't act as dumb as I do out of pure embarrassment. At least I can hang my hat on going back into a mature adult an hour or so after the game.

You are one of the sincere ones I was talking about. I’ve seen you be a little critical at times when it is called for.

There is nothing wrong with be an optimistic fan. I was very optimistic before the season began and I am satisfied with the regular season results. I am however disappointed with the second round results.

 

[kicker22]

What’s your solution for doing that?

No solution whatsoever... Just a dream of mine. I'm way to optimistic.

 

[PCHawk]

You are one of the sincere ones I was talking about. I’ve seen you be a little critical at times when it is called for.

There is nothing wrong with be an optimistic fan. I was very optimistic before the season began and I am satisfied with the regular season results. I am however disappointed with the second round results.

I wouldn't even consider myself optimistic. Hopeful maybe. I feel like I'm always Hopeful we will be good and disappointed when we're not. I don't care if a fan is the biggest optimist in the world or the biggest pessimist. But for some reason it bugs me when fans act like the reason we aren't better we don't bitch enough on message boards. Big donor's opinions matter. Average fan's don't. I'm an average fan and I assume you are too. What we say or do doesn't change the program one bit. Might as well be happy when we win and try to shake it off as quickly as possible when we lose (Something I've finally gotten better at in my mid 40s with kids to worry about).

 

[Ree4]

I wouldn't even consider myself optimistic. Hopeful maybe. I feel like I'm always Hopeful we will be good and disappointed when we're not. I don't care if a fan is the biggest optimist in the world or the biggest pessimist. But for some reason it bugs me when fans act like the reason we aren't better we don't bitch enough on message boards. Big donor's opinions matter. Average fan's don't. I'm an average fan and I assume you are too. What we say or do doesn't change the program one bit. Might as well be happy when we win and try to shake it off as quickly as possible when we lose (Something I've finally gotten better at in my mid 40s with kids to worry about).

I feel like the older I get, the more cynical I become. I used to be a huge optimist (especially regarding Hawkeye sports) but I feel like the half-full glass is slowly emptying.

 

[okeefe4prez]

I feel like the older I get, the more cynical I become. I used to be a huge optimist (especially regarding Hawkeye sports) but I feel like the half-full glass is slowly emptying.

Yeah, it really is slowly leaking. The same is really true for the whole upper midwest, unfortunately. OSU has a puncher's chance because they have a monopoly on in state talent and still have the cache to recruit nationally. No one else does in football. Michigan's caught lightning in a bottle in hoops and they might bring a title home. The B1G footprint is shrinking and the population is getting old. Iowa is not in great shape as a state. Same with Kansas, Nebraska, Illinois, Michigan, Ohio and Pennsylvania.

For me the hard part was the cock tease that was 2002-04 in football. I thought we had arrived. The game at Iowa State in 2005 proved that wrong. I was going to go to C-bus that year but I decided not to at the last minute. Thank God.

I've learned to just really enjoy the good when it comes. That's what makes a year like this one difficult. You get a 2 seed, you've got the best player in the history of the program, and you get absolutely boat raced by a 7 seed. It just sucks. There's about a 1 in a million chance that Iowa will ever have a guy who is a back to back first team All American ever again. And we had him for four years and didn't even get a sweet 16 out of it (granted The Germ didn't help).

I don't ask for much. Maybe just a Rose Bowl win. Three, maybe 4 good games in the tourney. Hell, this last year if Iowa got to Gonzaga and lost by under 10 in the tourney I'd have seriously been fine with it. I know we'll likely never win hardware.

 

[Fryowa]

That's what makes a year like this one difficult. You get a 2 seed, you've got the best player in the history of the program, and you get absolutely boat raced by a 7 seed. It just sucks.

I don’t get too upset about basketball; it’s just too insurmountable and we are at such a player disadvantage it’s not even funny. There’s nothing else anyone can do until they start getting a minor league system for the one & two and dones to go straight out of high school and level the college game playing field.

Football I get way more emotionally invested in (although less every year) because we actually do get to within a grasp of being a legit top 6-8th best team a couple times a decade. Even if the difference between the top 4 and number 5 is a mile, it’s still what I’d call semi-elite. And our football team is right up close with blue bloods as far as numbers of quality pro players that we put in the league. If we could just win the west 30% of the time and win at least one B1G title in my lifetime I’ll die happy. OSU is the only one standing in the way and who knows if they can keep it going for the next 10 years. I never thought Penn State or MSU would dumpster fire themselves but they did.

 

[okeefe4prez]

OSU is the only one standing in the way and who knows if they can keep it going for the next 10 years.

There have been 7 title games under the new east/west format. Appearances by school in the West:

Wisconsin: 4
Northwestern: 2
Iowa: 1

I'mma go out on a limb here and say that we need to set our sights on just derailing Wisconsin and Northwestern before we worry too much about OSU. Fitz is probably the best coach in the country and the guy has embarrassed the shit out of Ferentz so many times I have lost count. Hell, we pissed away a 17 point lead on NU last year (should have been 21) and that cost us a shot at OSU, who I think we would have had a coin toss shot at beating based on our play late in the season.

 

[1977Hawkeye]

I don’t get too upset about basketball; it’s just too insurmountable and we are at such a player disadvantage it’s not even funny. There’s nothing else anyone can do until they start getting a minor league system for the one & two and dones to go straight out of high school and level the college game playing field.

Football I get way more emotionally invested in (although less every year) because we actually do get to within a grasp of being a legit top 6-8th best team a couple times a decade. Even if the difference between the top 4 and number 5 is a mile, it’s still what I’d call semi-elite. And our football team is right up close with blue bloods as far as numbers of quality pro players that we put in the league. If we could just win the west 30% of the time and win at least one B1G title in my lifetime I’ll die happy. OSU is the only one standing in the way and who knows if they can keep it going for the next 10 years. I never thought Penn State or MSU would dumpster fire themselves but they did.

Serious question - why do you think the football program has had so much more success than the basketball program, the last 20 years in particular?

Obviously part of the answer is Steve Alford and Todd Lickliter, but I always figured that football would be harder to be successful in, due to sheer numbers you have to recruit to put a team on the field. Basketball, it seems like a couple of excellent recruits can have a pretty significant impact. Yet our football program has unarguably IMO had more success.

Do you think that Kirk Ferentz and his staff has just been that much better than what we've had on the hoops side? Are basketball and football recruiting that different from each other? I confess to not being a recruiting guru.

Agree that a level playing field would be great to have. That's all I really ask for. I just don't feel it's reality. Not in the foreseeable future, at least. I'd like to be wrong.

 

[Fryowa]

Serious question - why do you think the football program has had so much more success than the basketball program, the last 20 years in particular?

Obviously part of the answer is Steve Alford and Todd Lickliter, but I always figured that football would be harder to be successful in, due to sheer numbers you have to recruit to put a team on the field. Basketball, it seems like a couple of excellent recruits can have a pretty significant impact. Yet our football program has unarguably IMO had more success.

Do you think that Kirk Ferentz and his staff has just been that much better than what we've had on the hoops side? Are basketball and football recruiting that different from each other? I confess to not being a recruiting guru.

Agree that a level playing field would be great to have. That's all I really ask for. I just don't feel it's reality. Not in the foreseeable future, at least. I'd like to be wrong.

I'm obviously not a recruiting guru either, but I think there are a lot of things that go into it.

1) I think the talent gap between the best and "least best" players is way bigger in basketball than football and there aren't near as many to go around. Most elite BB players play hundreds of games a year between the AAU grind and high school. They have the best coaching available at that level and a whole bunch of them come into college NBA-ready and their one year of NCAA ball is just a formality. No college freshman is ready to even think about pro football.

2) For all of his perceived faults (which are some of my perceptions as well), Kirk Ferentz is really really good at designing a program that does the most with his available talent and he hires really good assistants. Even though he was apparently a raging douche bag, there was no one better in the strength biz than Chris Doyle. That's a huge part of it as well.

3) In the past 20 years we've missed the postseason (bowl games) twice. Yes, it's way easier to make a bowl game than the NCAA tournament, but it's still a mark of success that recruits look at.

4) Iowa football puts a metric shit ton of players in the NFL at a lot of different positions, and has for a really long time. We put way more guys in than our record would indicate. Ferentz has the (earned) luxury of bringing a recruit in and showing him wall after wall of All-Americans and guys in NFL uniforms with Super Bowl rings. In the last 20 years there's only been one guy who played a full NBA season's worth of games in his entire career and he got drafted....20 years ago.

5) Iowa's football facilities are ridiculous for not being a blue blood.

6) Just flat out more success. If you're successful you're just plain going to get better recruits. Similar to how I've said you either have to luck into a unicorn coach or cheat, Iowa did a form of that when they hired Hayden Fry and they were smart enough to make his replacement a guy who worked for him. People like to use that as an argument for playing musical coaches but for every HF there are 100 Mike Riley's out there. And let's not pretend that Fry wasn't luck. He didn't have any big time experience, and that hire was a last ditch Hail Mary to save a 30 year turd of a program. No one knew how it'd turn out. Iowa basketball isn't bad enough to warrant another roll of the dice, especially when the odds are so terrible. People who want a new coach are the same type of folks who buy more scratch tickets so they can make up their losses.

 

[PCHawk]

Serious question - why do you think the football program has had so much more success than the basketball program, the last 20 years in particular?

Obviously part of the answer is Steve Alford and Todd Lickliter, but I always figured that football would be harder to be successful in, due to sheer numbers you have to recruit to put a team on the field. Basketball, it seems like a couple of excellent recruits can have a pretty significant impact. Yet our football program has unarguably IMO had more success.

Do you think that Kirk Ferentz and his staff has just been that much better than what we've had on the hoops side? Are basketball and football recruiting that different from each other? I confess to not being a recruiting guru.

Agree that a level playing field would be great to have. That's all I really ask for. I just don't feel it's reality. Not in the foreseeable future, at least. I'd like to be wrong.

The Midwest doesn't produce a lot of athletes. In basketball, almost 100% of the players are good athletes. In football, there are only a few positions that are great athletes. Probably no coincidence that those are the positions Iowa struggles getting.

Also, has Frans last 10 years been much different than Kirk's last 10 years? Kirk had one great regular season followed by a not so good post season, same as Fran. Both had one terrible season. The other 8 were very similar too. Pretty good, but far from great.

 

[Northside Hawk]

I'm obviously not a recruiting guru either, but I think there are a lot of things that go into it.

1) I think the talent gap between the best and "least best" players is way bigger in basketball than football and there aren't near as many to go around. Most elite BB players play hundreds of games a year between the AAU grind and high school. They have the best coaching available at that level and a whole bunch of them come into college NBA-ready and their one year of NCAA ball is just a formality. No college freshman is ready to even think about pro football.

2) For all of his perceived faults (which are some of my perceptions as well), Kirk Ferentz is really really good at designing a program that does the most with his available talent and he hires really good assistants. Even though he was apparently a raging douche bag, there was no one better in the strength biz than Chris Doyle. That's a huge part of it as well.

3) In the past 20 years we've missed the postseason (bowl games) twice. Yes, it's way easier to make a bowl game than the NCAA tournament, but it's still a mark of success that recruits look at.

4) Iowa football puts a metric shit ton of players in the NFL at a lot of different positions, and has for a really long time. We put way more guys in than our record would indicate. Ferentz has the (earned) luxury of bringing a recruit in and showing him wall after wall of All-Americans and guys in NFL uniforms with Super Bowl rings. In the last 20 years there's only been one guy who played a full NBA season's worth of games in his entire career and he got drafted....20 years ago.

5) Iowa's football facilities are ridiculous for not being a blue blood.

6) Just flat out more success. If you're successful you're just plain going to get better recruits. Similar to how I've said you either have to luck into a unicorn coach or cheat, Iowa did a form of that when they hired Hayden Fry and they were smart enough to make his replacement a guy who worked for him. People like to use that as an argument for playing musical coaches but for every HF there are 100 Mike Riley's out there. And let's not pretend that Fry wasn't luck. He didn't have any big time experience, and that hire was a Hail Mary last ditch to save a 30 year turd of a program. No one knew how it'd turn out. Iowa basketball isn't bad enough to warrant another roll of the dice, especially when the odds are so terrible. People who want a new coach are the same type of folks who buy more scratch tickets so they can make up their losses.

Fry did coach at SMU at a time when the old SWC was the SWC. That was pretty big time, not to mention the recruiting competition in a fertile area for talent. His unwillingness to play the games with the SMU boosters and administration that would eventually kill their program prevented him from reaching even greater heights (and cost him his job) but you are correct that he was Bump Elliott's last chance. Bump himself pulled Hayden aside shortly after he hired him and told Hayden that if he didn't make it at Iowa, neither one would.

 

[HawkGold]

I'm obviously not a recruiting guru either, but I think there are a lot of things that go into it.

1) I think the talent gap between the best and "least best" players is way bigger in basketball than football and there aren't near as many to go around. Most elite BB players play hundreds of games a year between the AAU grind and high school. They have the best coaching available at that level and a whole bunch of them come into college NBA-ready and their one year of NCAA ball is just a formality. No college freshman is ready to even think about pro football.

2) For all of his perceived faults (which are some of my perceptions as well), Kirk Ferentz is really really good at designing a program that does the most with his available talent and he hires really good assistants. Even though he was apparently a raging douche bag, there was no one better in the strength biz than Chris Doyle. That's a huge part of it as well.

3) In the past 20 years we've missed the postseason (bowl games) twice. Yes, it's way easier to make a bowl game than the NCAA tournament, but it's still a mark of success that recruits look at.

4) Iowa football puts a metric shit ton of players in the NFL at a lot of different positions, and has for a really long time. We put way more guys in than our record would indicate. Ferentz has the (earned) luxury of bringing a recruit in and showing him wall after wall of All-Americans and guys in NFL uniforms with Super Bowl rings. In the last 20 years there's only been one guy who played a full NBA season's worth of games in his entire career and he got drafted....20 years ago.

5) Iowa's football facilities are ridiculous for not being a blue blood.

6) Just flat out more success. If you're successful you're just plain going to get better recruits. Similar to how I've said you either have to luck into a unicorn coach or cheat, Iowa did a form of that when they hired Hayden Fry and they were smart enough to make his replacement a guy who worked for him. People like to use that as an argument for playing musical coaches but for every HF there are 100 Mike Riley's out there. And let's not pretend that Fry wasn't luck. He didn't have any big time experience, and that hire was a Hail Mary last ditch to save a 30 year turd of a program. No one knew how it'd turn out. Iowa basketball isn't bad enough to warrant another roll of the dice, especially when the odds are so terrible. People who want a new coach are the same type of folks who buy more scratch tickets so they can make up their losses.

Dear Mr Hot Air.

Better coaching at AAU...hahahahahahahahahahaha... surely you are a comedian. Coaches good organizers? Yes. Connected? yes. Good well rounded coaches.... No

A whole bunch come in NBA ready? Depends on your definition. A small banana bunch? Also about the same number of Big teams make the NCAA as bowl games.

 

[Fryowa]

Dear Mr Hot Air.

Better coaching at AAU...hahahahahahahahahahaha... surely you are a comedian. Coaches good organizers? Yes. Connected? yes. Good well rounded coaches.... No

A whole bunch come in NBA ready? Depends on your definition. A small banana bunch? Also about the same number of Big teams make the NCAA as bowl games.

The best AAU teams have much better coaching that what's found at the HS level.

You should know by now that whatever reaction you're looking for from me isn't gonna materialize.

 

[1977Hawkeye]

The Midwest doesn't produce a lot of athletes. In basketball, almost 100% of the players are good athletes. In football, there are only a few positions that are great athletes. Probably no coincidence that those are the positions Iowa struggles getting.

Also, has Frans last 10 years been much different than Kirk's last 10 years? Kirk had one great regular season followed by a not so good post season, same as Fran. Both had one terrible season. The other 8 were very similar too. Pretty good, but far from great.

Lot of good points there. You are correct about the skill positions in football. Those seem to be our soft spots. Iowa seems a lot better at getting good linemen, etc.

And yes, KF in the 2010's wasn't as dominant as he was in the 2000's, 2002-04 especially. Then 2008-09 were pretty strong. A little recent uptick again lately it seems.

 

[HawkGold]

The best AAU teams have much better coaching that what's found at the HS level.

You should know by now that whatever reaction you're looking for from me isn't gonna materialize.

The 2nd part is just having fun. The first part you are way wrong.

 

[PCHawk]

Dear Mr Hot Air.

Better coaching at AAU...hahahahahahahahahahaha... surely you are a comedian. Coaches good organizers? Yes. Connected? yes. Good well rounded coaches.... No

A whole bunch come in NBA ready? Depends on your definition. A small banana bunch? Also about the same number of Big teams make the NCAA as bowl games.

I'm not sure if it's true or not that the same amount of teams make the NCAA tournament as bown games, but it sure seams like it should be way easier to make a bowl. All you have to do is finish .500 to make a bowl. You can go 3-6 in the big 10 and still make a bowl. In basketball, that's like going 6-14 or 7-13. You aren't even making the NIT with that record.

 

[Northside Hawk]

I'm not sure if it's true or not that the same amount of teams make the NCAA tournament as bown games, but it sure seams like it should be way easier to make a bowl. All you have to do is finish .500 to make a bowl. You can go 3-6 in the big 10 and still make a bowl. In basketball, that's like going 6-14 or 7-13. You aren't even making the NIT with that record.

Yep. Just goes to show how many bowl games there are today. Read: too many.

Ask an old time ISU fan. 1976 may have been their best team ever with an explosive offense, a turnover forcing defense, and good special teams.

But there were only about a dozen bowl games then, and the Clones got shut out. Probably one of the fifteen best teams in the country, they could only tie for fourth during an era when the conference they played in was legit.

 

[Ree4]

Yep. Just goes to show how many bowl games there are today. Read: too many.

Ask an old time ISU fan. 1976 may have been their best team ever with an explosive offense, a turnover forcing defense, and good special teams.

But there were only about a dozen bowl games then, and the Clones got shut out. Probably one of the fifteen best teams in the country, they could only tie for fourth during an era when the conference they played in was legit.

I think I'm in the minority about bowl games, the more college football there are, the happier I am. Sure most of them are meaningless but it's still fun for me to watch my team one last time even if it's on a skating rink.

 

[kicker22]

The 2nd part is just having fun. The first part you are way wrong.

You really believe that? I guess my experience is with club soccer as opposed to AAU basketball, but as both a former varsity coach with 20 years of experience at that level, I can tell you hands down that at least in terms of soccer, high level clubs have far superior credentials, methodology, and ideology then high school coaches.

That's not to say that there aren't good high school coaches out there, or bad club coaches. Part of being a good coach, IMO revolves around the opportunities to continue to develop as a coach as well as the educational made available. Not a shot at Varsity sports at all, but how difficult is it to attain a coaching authorization (for someone who works outside the school system) in the state of Iowa and then once its acquired there is very little required obligations to get it renewed. In addition to that the authorization isn't even sport specific. Outside the varsity level there are a magnitude of different levels of licensing one can attain to continue to move up the ranks, and those opportunities are not for everyone, and are difficult to progress through.

I was a successful high school coach with multiple state appearances and a number of conference championships, but but I found that there was very little out there in terms of resources or opportunities to improve my craft. The amount of resources and licensing opportunities available to me at the club level is exponentially greater than anything that was made available to me through the IAHSAA, NFHS, or IAHSSCA.

As someone who left the varsity level for the club/academy experience I think both are fantastic options. However, at the same time I think there are a lot of "great" coaches at the high school level, who owe their success, in large part, to the club/AAU system and the number of athletes who participate in club/AAU sports.