Iowa's current recruiting ranking according to this site

[Knight78]

Serious question. How many power5 coaches don’t make it to the sweet 16 in 11 years and still have their job?
My guess is not too many.
yeah i know i can find the information myself but 11 f’n years!?

Colorado (Tad Boyle), Providence (Ed Cooley), Seton Hall (Kevin Willard), and Iowa. Although Minnesota had only 2 and Pitino was there 10 years. DePaul and Georgetown only had 2 but the first retired from coaching. And Florida only had 2 but Billy Donovan left for the NBA.

There were a total of 29 teams in the Power 6 that have not made the Sweet 16 in the past 11 years.

 

[InGoodCo]

It took Greg McDermott 11 years and he had absolutely no pressure on him because Creighton loves him. Puts a competitive team on the court every season, has strong ties in the community and is a good recruiter. He's also very consistent at getting CU to the Dance which is the only way to give your self the opportunity.

 

[PCHawk]

It took Greg McDermott 11 years and he had absolutely no pressure on him because Creighton loves him. Puts a competitive team on the court every season, has strong ties in the community and is a good recruiter. He's also very consistent at getting CU to the Dance which is the only way to give your self the opportunity.

I also mentioned in another thread Scott Drew's path.

 

[kicker22]

While I'm not in the fire Fran crowd, I think we have to raise our expectations from getting to the dance to getting past the opening weekend. At some point as time moves forward the expectations have to as well. If the norm becomes get to the NCAA tournament consistently you have to raise the bar at some point.

 

[WindsorHawk]

While I'm not in the fire Fran crowd, I think we have to raise our expectations from getting to the dance to getting past the opening weekend. At some point as time moves forward the expectations have to as well. If the norm becomes get to the NCAA tournament consistently you have to raise the bar at some point.

I’m not being argumentative. What’s the (Iowa) historical basis for doing better than making the NCAA and getting a win virtually every year.

 

[Seth53]

The transfer portal is going to quickly make the recruiting rankings more meaningless than they already are.

 

[tweeterhawk]

It's only a mirage if you don't believe in things like upsets, off nights, and nights where your opponent hits on all cylinders. I only watched Oregon play us and most of the USC game. They looked unreal in one and decent in the other. For all I know Iowa would have beat them 7 out of 10 times. I do know it's possible to get smoked by a team you can beat 7 out of 10 times because I watched Ohio State get smoked by Iowa a few years ago in football. Shit happens. Its pretty short sighted to call an entire season a mirage because of one game that could have easily been a fluke or a choke job.

Iowa was beat by speed and athleticism. That’s always the case with Fran McCaffery-coached teams. That’s what happens when the best classes you can recruit consistently rank no higher than 11th in the B1G.

Let’s be honest: Iowa’s lofty ranking much of the year and No. 2 seeding in the tournament was due to one reason and one reason only: having the consensus National Player of The Year on the roster. Oregon quickly exposed Iowa’s weaknesses beyond a player named Garza.

The next few years of Iowa basketball are going to be rugged.

 

[trj]

I’m not being argumentative. What’s the (Iowa) historical basis for doing better than making the NCAA and getting a win virtually every year.

Fran has never taken a team past the 1st round and Iowa hasn’t been in 20+years. I am not advocating that you fire Fran, but it is the 5000 lbs. pink elephant in the room. Until he breaks through it is going to be there.

 

[InGoodCo]

Fran has never taken a team past the 1st round and Iowa hasn’t been in 20+years. I am not advocating that you fire Fran, but it is the 5000 lbs. pink elephant in the room. Until he breaks through it is going to be there.

100 percent. The knock on Fran is he can't get passed the first weekend and that's gonna remain until he does it. I just don't know that Iowa is the type of school that can demand that type of thing and run a guy off for it, especially a guy who's getting ya there and in position pretty regularly. We know for certain that there are plenty of coaches who can do worse, I don't know that we really know besides a few flash in the pans that there is a coach out there who can consistently do better. So, IMO, Iowa staying status quo or betting on a guy who's proven he can get us in position is fine by me because I really enjoy watching this team every year. I like All Conference 1st team players and NPOY candidates and 1st and 2nd team All Americans. That's fun shit for me as a fan. Yeah, it sucks we haven't made it further, but that doesn't mean it can't or won't happen. I think Fran is a good enough coach to make it past the 1st weekend but for whatever reason he just hasn't. It's probably gonna happen and come from a team you'd least expect it from, kind of like the 99 team.

 

[HaydenHawk56]

100 percent. The knock on Fran is he can't get passed the first weekend and that's gonna remain until he does it. I just don't know that Iowa is the type of school that can demand that type of thing and run a guy off for it, especially a guy who's getting ya there and in position pretty regularly. We know for certain that there are plenty of coaches who can do worse, I don't know that we really know besides a few flash in the pans that there is a coach out there who can consistently do better. So, IMO, Iowa staying status quo or betting on a guy who's proven he can get us in position is fine by me because I really enjoy watching this team every year. I like All Conference 1st team players and NPOY candidates and 1st and 2nd team All Americans. That's fun shit for me as a fan. Yeah, it sucks we haven't made it further, but that doesn't mean it can't or won't happen. I think Fran is a good enough coach to make it past the 1st weekend but for whatever reason he just hasn't. It's probably gonna happen and come from a team you'd least expect it from, kind of like the 99 team.

I agree. As long as Fran is keeping this team NCAA tourney bound every 2 or 3 years out of 5, I can live with that. Starts falling below that, drop him.

 

[PCHawk]

I think I takes a hall of fame type coach to do noticeably better than Fran. I'm not saying Fran is just under hall of fame material. But probably only a little below just under.

 

[Ian Pike Hammer]

I agree. As long as Fran is keeping this team NCAA tourney bound every 2 or 3 years out of 5, I can live with that. Starts falling below that, drop him.

And we all know how that will be achieved: by recruiting speed and athleticism. Seems like he went out of his way to recruit " known shooters" recently. And while that works initially, doesn't pan out in March.

 

[trj]

I think I takes a hall of fame type coach to do noticeably better than Fran. I'm not saying Fran is just under hall of fame material. But probably only a little below just under.

wtf???? Are you drunk? I get what you are saying......I think.

 

[PCHawk]

wtf???? Are you drunk? I get what you are saying......I think.

Ha you would think. Made sense in my head when I typed it.

 

[1977Hawkeye]

IMO what Fran has gotten done here, even with nothing more than a 2nd round loss, is not a fireable offense. Am I satisfied with 2nd round losses every time we make the dance? No. I've said that before. As much as I HATE the "We're just Iowa" line, I also have to admit to myself that it's also largely a true statement. It doesn't mean this is our ceiling, but I don't think we should run off a coach for failing to make a Sweet 16 or further. Not if you compare the current results with program history.

It may sound like I'm talking out both sides of my mouth, but there's a difference between wanting more and thinking it's time to burn it down and start over. It definitely is NOT the latter at this point IMO.

Maybe Fran will pull a Lisa Bluder and start breaking through past the first weekend. By my count, she didn't get there until year 15. Last couple appearances have been Elite 8 and Sweet 16, so the program seems to be trending up these days. She has a good program and I'd be pretty satisfied if Fran could duplicate what Bluder has done the past 5-7 years or so.

 

[okeefe4prez]

Maybe Fran will pull a Lisa Bluder and start breaking through past the first weekend. By my count, she didn't get there until year 15. Last couple appearances have been Elite 8 and Sweet 16, so the program seems to be trending up these days. She has a good program and I'd be pretty satisfied if Fran could duplicate what Bluder has done the past 5-7 years or so.

It's been easier to advance in the women's tournament than in the men's if you are a P5 member. If you look at the women's brackets, they are pretty much dominated by P5 and UConn. I would bet that if you checked brackets for the past ten years it is very rare for a non P5 program (other than UConn) to have better than a 5 seed. And in the women's tournament, there is a lot of chalk, as there are basically only maybe 5 teams that have a legitimate chance at winning it any given year.

In men's hoops, the mid major programs view basketball as a massive extension of the marketing department and schools have seen massive returns from a good run or a star player going through. The same competition doesn't exist on the women's side and so cash rich P5 programs (plus UConn, which has thrown a lot at women's hoops) have far and away the best coaches and recruiting. There's a pretty tight correlation between a cash rich athletic department from football/TV revenue and having a solid women's program.

But that correlation doesn't really hold in men's hoops. There is way more variability and way more potential for things like a 2 seed OSU losing to a 15 seed or 1 seed Illinois losing to Loyola. I honestly don't see any way Fran could have sustained success on par with Bluder. At best, you're looking at a flash in the pan one year run where we get hot in the tournament at the right time. Fran has never won back to back postseason games at Iowa in any tournament other than the NIT.

 

[kicker22]

I’m not being argumentative. What’s the (Iowa) historical basis for doing better than making the NCAA and getting a win virtually every year.

Sorry for the late response to this as I didn't see it initially. Easily a valid argument based on history. My point is you've got to continue to raise the bar. Once you hit that point where you're getting in every year and "virtually winning a game every year" you've got to set the sights higher, like getting past the first weekend or making a sweet 16. I'm not saying the sights aren't there or that we haven't come a long way, but as a fan or part of a program I think it's fair to be satisfied with that consistency but at the same time wanting more. As fans we can be satisfied, but I think as a coach or AD when you start settling for something your consistently doing it stalls the program.

While I agree that March is what really matters, I guess I'm one of those that feels that it isn't off base to want to put more emphasis on conference standings and ultimately improving in what I believe is fair to say our disappointing track record in conference tournaments.

 

[Fryowa]

While I agree that March is what really matters, I guess I'm one of those that feels that it isn't off base to want to put more emphasis on conference standings and ultimately improving in what I believe is fair to say our disappointing track record in conference tournaments.

What’s your solution for doing that?

 

[Hawkfnntn]

The grumblings in this thread are giving me flashbacks to the Tom Davis era. Some people felt Mr. Davis wasn't good enough and they needed to take the next step. We then got to suffer through the Alford and Lickliter years. I don't want to go through that bullshit again, I'll take the 20 win seasons and annual NCAA tournament bids over Alford and Lick.

Yup... That's the thing we are one hire away from disaster all the time. That goes for football too for those who've tried to push KF out. I would love nothing more to take that next step and be an elite 8/final 4 level program. But so would 100 other programs. It's tough to do. You know what else is tough to do? Maintaining a solid 18-20 plus win/yr program for 10 plus yrs in a tough conference. While doing it the right way and running a clean program. That's not easy either...

 

[BigD]

As much as I hate the early exits in the NCAA tournaments we did have a pretty descent year last season. So we need to be patient to see where we go from here.

At the same time there will always apologist and participation trophy supporters.

Just getting to the NCAA tournament is great but if your going wet the bed every time you get there then what the hell is the purpose?

I’d say the recruiting rankings are pretty accurate so you have to give Fran his due for coaching up these kids and exceeding his recruiting skills. I think it would be fair to expect recruiting to pick up VERY SOON. Fran has shown he can coach but that only gets you so far without top notch talent. That gets you early tournment outs.

Who gives a damn if you finish third, fourth, fifth.......... It’s how you do in the tournament that really matters. Speaking of which there are certain posters that I suspect may have a close association with Fran who are the biggest apologist fans I have ever seen on a sports forum.

Maybe in the next few years these specific posters will prove to be the smart ones and suddenly something will click and Fran’s program finally starts to kick ass. If Joe doesn’t return next season it certainly won’t be next year. If he doesn’t come back I fully expect next season will reflect the recruiting as in a tenth, eleventh or worse finish.

To be fair though, every team goes through rebuilding years. So we need to be patient, however this early exit crap is for the birds (isn’t a hawk a bird) unless your name is Margaret or your last name is the same as the head coach’s.................... seriously among the top apologist on this wouldn’t surprise me one bit if that’s not the case. Especially two particular posters. The other few I think are being sincere. Still, what true sports fan finds these acceptable or least for how long.

There are very successful sports programs in college basketball that would still be in the gutter if they hadn’t been willing to try to do better and their fan base was made up of a bunch of mediocrity queens.

I am trying to be fair here considering that we did have a really good regular season, so let’s see if Fran can exceed expectations next season. If he does then I for one will tip my hat to him. However if we have to nickname him “early out Fran” then a change will well be over due.