Iowa v N Illinois Two Deep

[SpecialKHawk]

Mike Daniels was an unproven and undersized dt...he came from nowhere to be a sensation. Many thought Carl Davis would come in and set the world on fire because of size. If Walsh can beat out Donnal it says a lot about Walsh as Donnal should have had the upper hand being he played so well last year. If you take Blythe out who plays center. That is much different from the other line spots it isn't like you can put anyone there. And we have had smaller centers a lot. They are usually athletic and mean.

i am fine with trying to find ways to get law on the field if he proves to the coaches he deserves it not because of an Internet video where he knocks a helmet off a player with a hit.

Daniels is a great example of player development no doubt and there will need to be some of these guys but it will not be the norm to fill out all 22 spots. Some guys are studs from day one and you need studs to win consistently.

Boffeli has worked at center. I would have Blythe and Walsh competing for the last spot guard or center does not matter to me. I want Donnal on the field with Van Sloten, Scherff and Bofelli.

I want Cotten, Smith, Powell, Donnal, Law, Cooper, Canzeri, Faith, Jaleel, Draper, etc... Playmakers on the field in whatever package or combination.

I think Carl Davis is going to have a big year but you are right that if he or others do not produce then go to the next guy until you find the player. If that player ends up being Shumpert so be it but I am skeptical with him.

 

[RocknRollface]

Daniels is a great example of player development no doubt and there will need to be some of these guys but it will not be the norm to fill out all 22 spots. Some guys are studs from day one and you need studs to win consistently.

Boffeli has worked at center. I would have Blythe and Walsh competing for the last spot guard or center does not matter to me. I want Donnal on the field with Van Sloten, Scherff and Bofelli.

I want Cotten, Smith, Powell, Donnal, Law, Cooper, Canzeri, Faith, Jaleel, Draper, etc... Playmakers on the field in whatever package or combination.

I think Carl Davis is going to have a big year but you are right that if he or others do not produce then go to the next guy until you find the player. If that player ends up being Shumpert so be it but I am skeptical with him.

Ive questioned KFs judgment many times but to not trust him on the Oline is moronic.

There is absolutely no reason to play Walsh over Donnal unless he is simply better. Period. Not hard to understand. Accept it.

Besides Walsh was the more highly recruited player anyway.

 

[NCHawker]

2 cents.

I don't know who is better than who. I havn't been to the practices. I don't care. I want the guys out there who play the best. Don't care what their name is.

 

[hawkfan340]

yeah i mean when KF would leave DJK off the depth chart or put paki as the starter, dude was loony tunes. obviously only has love for older players and made serious mistakes when he wrote down his depth chart.

lets forget what actually happened during the games and who actually played, i'm mad that he wrote down a few names on a piece of paper over a week before the first game. what a jerk. he has obviously lost it

Paki played at least a couple of series against UNI in 2009 and that almost cost us the game, so I don't like that example.

And I hated the way KF "disciplined" DJK via the 2-deep. If you're going to discipline a player, take his minutes away or use some other real punishment. If the other players get mad about sitting their best WR, tell them to take that up with DJK. The way KF handled it just let DJK know he had the ultimate power in the relationship since he had the talent and KF was only going to discipline him on paper.

 

[SpecialKHawk]

Ive questioned KFs judgment many times but to not trust him on the Oline is moronic.

There is absolutely no reason to play Walsh over Donnal unless he is simply better. Period. Not hard to understand. Accept it.

Besides Walsh was the more highly recruited player anyway.

For the sake of argument we should take a deeper look on what makes you trust someone at evaluating at one position.

How about we look at two factors to see how they stack up.

1. Number of NFL drafted defensive lineman during his tenure compared to offensive lineman
2. Offensive rushing and passing offense in yards per game against B1G competition and compare that to the defensive rankings in the same categories

One would guess the numbers would be weighted heavily toward the offense when earning trust as an o-line developer since success cannot be attained without controlling the line of scrimmage? Will the reality of the data support this?

 

[deanvogs]

For the sake of argument we should take a deeper look on what makes you trust someone at evaluating at one position.

How about we look at two factors to see how they stack up.

1. Number of NFL drafted defensive lineman during his tenure compared to offensive lineman
2. Offensive rushing and passing offense in yards per game against B1G competition and compare that to the defensive rankings in the same categories

One would guess the numbers would be weighted heavily toward the offense when earning trust as an o-line developer since success cannot be attained without controlling the line of scrimmage? Will the reality of the data support this?

Please provide the data that says we should trust YOU at evaluating ANYTHING considering you have seen 1 practice at most?

I absolutely love that you are trashing a coaching staff about this, and act like you are some expert on personnel packages, and player evaluations......

 

[Foval21]

Daniels is a great example of player development no doubt and there will need to be some of these guys but it will not be the norm to fill out all 22 spots. Some guys are studs from day one and you need studs to win consistently.

Boffeli has worked at center. I would have Blythe and Walsh competing for the last spot guard or center does not matter to me. I want Donnal on the field with Van Sloten, Scherff and Bofelli.

I want Cotten, Smith, Powell, Donnal, Law, Cooper, Canzeri, Faith, Jaleel, Draper, etc... Playmakers on the field in whatever package or combination.

I think Carl Davis is going to have a big year but you are right that if he or others do not produce then go to the next guy until you find the player. If that player ends up being Shumpert so be it but I am skeptical with him.

Btw when has boffeli worked at center? All I know of is Blythe and Simmons. Not saying you are wrong but I am pretty sure you are wrong.

you really shouldn't consider someone a playmaker until they make plays in a game. That means the guys with little playing time or no playing time are just guesses on your part.

i am trying to figure out what law has done that makes it so lowdermilk can't beat him out. Lowdermilk is incredibly athletic and I believe he was a little of an Internet sensation by hurdling a tackler in a game. Lots are forgetting how great ltp was last year.

 

[SpecialKHawk]

Please provide the data that says we should trust YOU at evaluating ANYTHING considering you have seen 1 practice at most?

I absolutely love that you are trashing a coaching staff about this, and act like you are some expert on personnel packages, and player evaluations......

You are not understanding what my point is that being that we tend to label and repeat what we have been told, assume, perceive or hear others say but when you peel back the onion and look at things from a different view point you might see things a little differently both from the better and the worse.

My point on draft picks is we all admire the numbers of guys we put in the NFL which is a tribute to our coach and his program. I just notice that we talk a lot about his leadership in the o-line but seldom do we do the same for the other position coaches some of whom may have produced more NFL players.

I will list the offensive rankings within the B1G only as I do not like the inclusion of non-con because we are normally playing a cream puff or two. I will go back and grab the defensive numbers and re-post them for compare. You can find these as well.

First 2002 was truly awesome but after this our best in conference rushing offense was 2008 at 4th. All other seasons were 7th or worse in yards per game. This actually surprises me as well. I hold running the football as a key metric for success both as a team and within games. This might explain why we seem to have an affinity for losing to sub-par programs. Often sub-par programs cannot handle physical o-lines and running attacks. Case in point Wisconsin loses far less to these kinds of teams than we do in conference. My point is I would assume with dominate lines we would statistically have more yards per game and a better ranking? A factor to offset this is we want 'balance' so we might throw more times instead stick with the run.

The other reason I like yards per game is it gives a general indicator how we are moving the ball between pass and run.

R-Rush, P-Pass
2012 R-11, P-12
2011 R-10, P-3
2010 R-8, P-6
2009 R-10, P-6
2008 R-4, P-8
2007 R-10, P-10
2006 R-7, P-2
2005 R-7, P-3
2004 R-11, P-2
2003 R-7, P-7

I should go back and pull the scoring averages as well on both sides of the ball.

Without looking up the defense my assumption is the defense will have some good numbers over the years.

I like our coach but some of you are calling me out for opinions and observations with nothing more than your own.

 

[deanvogs]

some of you are calling me out for opinions and observations with nothing more than your own.

Yet it is ok for you to call out the coaches as making mistakes in the depth chart because you have seen one practice, or defend and repeat your opinions?

Listen, my only point to you and 23 is that you really have no inside knowledge or information as to what is transpiring in these practices. Why is is so hard to believe that Walsh can beat out Donnal, or that Shumpert could have had a light go on and earn playing time? Why do you assume that they have shown no improvement, but somehow magically showed up on the depth chart? Isn't it just more logical to think that they have just been practicing well, and deserve the spot? Why would the coaches reward Shumpert, or Walsh, or Lowdermilk, but not other players??

 

[LASBUR]

I agree. We should hope Shuppert is showing his stuff in practise. I understand he hasnt shown it his first three years. But lets see what he does on game day. The contact info was very interesting. Hadnt heard that. But it could make a real difference

I have to believe its a good thing that Shumpert is listed 1. It simply can't be a case of KF giving the nod to a familiar player because he has played less than Cotton in the past and has done nothing on the field to warrant any benefit of the doubt. He must legitimately be doing better than the others in practice. Its not like the dude is unathletic at all, hes big and fast.

 

[SpecialKHawk]

Here's the comparison offense to defense....

R-Rush, P-Pass

Offense
2012 R-11, P-12
2011 R-10, P-3
2010 R-8, P-6
2009 R-10, P-6
2008 R-4, P-8
2007 R-10, P-10
2006 R-7, P-2
2005 R-7, P-3
2004 R-11, P-2
2003 R-7, P-7

Defense
2012 R-7, P-7
2011 R-7, P-11
2010 R-2, P-7
2009 R-4, P-1
2008 R-2, P-5
2007 R-3, P-6
2006 R-7, P-6
2005 R-4, P-8
2004 R-1, P-3
2003 R-2, P-7

Scoring Rank Offense to Defense
2012 O-11, D-7
2011 O-8, D-6
2010 O-6, D-2
2009 O-10, D-3
2008 O-2, D-1
2007 O-11, D-3
2006 O-7, D-5
2005 O-7, D-3
2004 O-6, D-4
2003 O-6, D-4

Again, there is this underlying notion that we have great offensive line play as a whole. We have produced some really, really good offensive lineman, most of which have been tackles. I do find it hard to believe that with one of the best line coaches and lines we have problems scoring the football at times.

The interesting aspect is one of the best scoring offenses we have had since 2002 was also the year that we were 4th in the league in rushing yards per game. Coincidence? This is why I say always play the big boys over the smaller guys when it's close (and in this case one guy has already played and produced); ie Donnal over Walsh.... and put your smallest guy at center. I am not down on Walsh in anyway just stating my preference based on metrics for success.

Go compare the starting offensive line sizes(heights and weights) from the successful programs across the country. You might notice something.

How many of our past lineman were NFL draft picks were under 6' 4" inches?

 

[SpecialKHawk]

Btw when has boffeli worked at center? All I know of is Blythe and Simmons. Not saying you are wrong but I am pretty sure you are wrong.

Here's one example of how I am wrong about Boffeli....
Iowa's Spring 2011 Two Deep « Hawkeye NationHawkeye Nation

Iowa’s Spring 2011 Two Deep

‘Starters’ are the first name listed at the position with their backups to follow.

OFFENSE

WR: Marvin McNutt (6-4/214) SR /// Don Shumpert (6-3/185) SO
WR: Keenan Davis (6-3/215) JR /// Kevonte Martin-Manley (6-0/200) FR
LT: Riley Reiff (6-6/300) JR /// Matt Tobin (6-6/285) JR
LG: Adam Gettis (6-4/280) SR /// Woody Orne (6-5/295) SR
C: James Ferentz (6-2/275) JR /// Conor Boffeli (6-5/285) SO
RG: Nolan MacMillan (6-6/288) SO /// Brandon Scherff (6-5/210) FR
RT: Markus Zusevics (6-5/295) SR /// Brett Van Sloten (6-7/290) SO
TE: Brad Herman (6-5/247) SR /// CJ Fiedorowicz (6-7/265) SO
RB: Marcus Coker (6-0/230) SO /// Jason White (5-10/205) JR
FB: Brad Rogers (5-10/215) SO /// Jonathon Gimm (6-3/240) JR
QB: James Vandenberg (6-3/212) JR /// Jon Wienke (6-5/220) SR
PK: Mike Meyer (6-2/175) SO /// Trent Mossbrucker (6-0/204) JR

DEFENSE

DE: Lebron Daniel (6-2/250) SR /// Joe Forgy (6-4/260) SR
DE: Broderick Binns (6-2/261) SR /// Dominic Alvis (6-4/250) SO
DT: Mike Daniels (6-/275) SR /// Steve Bigach (6-3/272) JR
DT: Thomas Nardo (6-3/277) SR /// Carl Davis (6-5/310) FR
OLB: Tyler Nielsen (6-4/235) SR /// Christian Kirksey (6-2/195) SO
MLB: James Morris (6-2/215) SO /// Bruce Davis (6-0/232) SR
WLB: Kirksey OR Anthony Hitchens (6-1/215) SO /// Shane DiBona (6-2/230) SO
LC: Shaun Prater (5-11/180) SR /// Greg Castillo (5-11/180) JR
SS: Collin Sleeper (6-2/200) JR /// Tom Donatell (6-2/205) SR
FS: Tanner Miller (6-2/195) SO /// Jack Swanson (5-11/200) JR
RC: Micah Hyde (6-1/185) JR /// BJ Lowery (5-11/180) SO
PT: Eric Guthrie (6-6/245) SR /// Jonny Mullings (6-3/210) FR

PR: McNutt
KOR: K. Davis

 

[Foval21]

Here's one example of how I am wrong about Boffeli....
Iowa's Spring 2011 Two Deep « Hawkeye NationHawkeye Nation

Iowa’s Spring 2011 Two Deep

‘Starters’ are the first name listed at the position with their backups to follow.

OFFENSE

WR: Marvin McNutt (6-4/214) SR /// Don Shumpert (6-3/185) SO
WR: Keenan Davis (6-3/215) JR /// Kevonte Martin-Manley (6-0/200) FR
LT: Riley Reiff (6-6/300) JR /// Matt Tobin (6-6/285) JR
LG: Adam Gettis (6-4/280) SR /// Woody Orne (6-5/295) SR
C: James Ferentz (6-2/275) JR /// Conor Boffeli (6-5/285) SO
RG: Nolan MacMillan (6-6/288) SO /// Brandon Scherff (6-5/210) FR
RT: Markus Zusevics (6-5/295) SR /// Brett Van Sloten (6-7/290) SO
TE: Brad Herman (6-5/247) SR /// CJ Fiedorowicz (6-7/265) SO
RB: Marcus Coker (6-0/230) SO /// Jason White (5-10/205) JR
FB: Brad Rogers (5-10/215) SO /// Jonathon Gimm (6-3/240) JR
QB: James Vandenberg (6-3/212) JR /// Jon Wienke (6-5/220) SR
PK: Mike Meyer (6-2/175) SO /// Trent Mossbrucker (6-0/204) JR

DEFENSE

DE: Lebron Daniel (6-2/250) SR /// Joe Forgy (6-4/260) SR
DE: Broderick Binns (6-2/261) SR /// Dominic Alvis (6-4/250) SO
DT: Mike Daniels (6-/275) SR /// Steve Bigach (6-3/272) JR
DT: Thomas Nardo (6-3/277) SR /// Carl Davis (6-5/310) FR
OLB: Tyler Nielsen (6-4/235) SR /// Christian Kirksey (6-2/195) SO
MLB: James Morris (6-2/215) SO /// Bruce Davis (6-0/232) SR
WLB: Kirksey OR Anthony Hitchens (6-1/215) SO /// Shane DiBona (6-2/230) SO
LC: Shaun Prater (5-11/180) SR /// Greg Castillo (5-11/180) JR
SS: Collin Sleeper (6-2/200) JR /// Tom Donatell (6-2/205) SR
FS: Tanner Miller (6-2/195) SO /// Jack Swanson (5-11/200) JR
RC: Micah Hyde (6-1/185) JR /// BJ Lowery (5-11/180) SO
PT: Eric Guthrie (6-6/245) SR /// Jonny Mullings (6-3/210) FR

PR: McNutt
KOR: K. Davis

Alright I give you that but I notice Nolan Macmillan as a starter there and I don't see you arguing he should be playing and yet he has actually proven more than most of the other players (starters and back ups) way to cherry pick based off of your own mistaken beliefs.

 

[SpecialKHawk]

I am going to say I do not hate our coach at all and I am actually very pumped for this season. I think we have a lot of underlying talent. What startled me is some of the depth chart personnel. You are correct and I will trust the coaches but I have a right to voice my opinion for concern. If Shumpert comes out of no-where and has a big year that is an excellent thing and I will eat crow. I was simply stating I would rather see Cotton, Powell, Smith and Manley before Shumpert.

I also believe firmly that winning programs run the football effectively behind very big and physical offensive lines. Success on the offensive side of the ball is predicated on this. That's why I want Donnal who is big, physical and proven on the line (unless he is hurt - which then renders the question why is he on the two-deep).

I also understand packages, combinations and that they play games with the depth chart. I simply see no reason to play games this season. Let's make a statement about last year is last year and this year we are coming at our opponents with all of our firepower not taking big risks hoping to find one nice story.

The Northern Illinois game represents to me a program changer as they are an excellent football team coming off of a monster season. A win against these guys will set the tone for the entire season and where this program is truly heading. I want my best 22 out there. That's all I have been stating. If we were playing Missouri State I would not care about some of this.

 

[PCHawk]

There are 2 major reasons why our rushing stats are so low. AIRBHG and the fact that we run so few offensive plays in a game do to style of play. I think Kirk is great with the offensive line but it does get blown out of proportion a little bit.

 

[ShadasRevenge]

Soooo much armchair quarterbacking going on in this thread.

 

[SpecialKHawk]

There are 2 major reasons why our rushing stats are so low. AIRBHG and the fact that we run so few offensive plays in a game do to style of play. I think Kirk is great with the offensive line but it does get blown out of proportion a little bit.

Good and fair points.

 

[SpecialKHawk]

Alright I give you that but I notice Nolan Macmillan as a starter there and I don't see you arguing he should be playing and yet he has actually proven more than most of the other players (starters and back ups) way to cherry pick based off of your own mistaken beliefs.

McMillan looked like a rising star early but he has had multiple documented injuries since. If he is ready to go and is a better option than Blythe or Walsh for the last line spot then I will absolutely advocate for him. His size would be a huge plus along with Donnal and the other 3 I like. Just give me the biggest, most physical starting 5 and we will start jamming the ball down our opponents throat and scoring points.

 

[Foval21]

Lt - scherff 6'5 315, Macmillan 6'6 294

lg - boffeli 6'5 295, Simmons 6'2 295

c - Blythe 6'3 300, Gaul 6'3 277

rg - Walsh 6'4 290, Donnal 6'7 305

Rt - van Sloten 6'7 300, ward 6'5 290

Outside of gaul no one is under 290 so I would say we are far from lacking size on the line. And if Walsh is 15 lbs lighter than Donnal and still beat him out that means he has great technique and strength and probably has a solid mean streak. Nothing to complain about here. My money is on Donnal being considered the 6th lineman which means he will play a lot. Iowa plays their back up lineman more than people realize. Especially at the guards.

 

[PCHawk]

My money is on donnal not being 100% yet.