Iowa v N Illinois Two Deep

[Section136]

You can justify anything and please go on justifying guys that do not produce when the lights are on but I want the following guys on the field. I actually want to win some games not play favorites and underdogs.

Here are some of the guys I want to see in any combination or package...

WR's Powell, Cotton, Smith and Manley in any combination or package. Love Willies and AJ Jones but they will probably RS. Would like to see Haluska and McCarron in spot duty.

TE's. CJ, Hamilton and Duzey in any combination or package

O-lineman...the best, biggest and meanest 5 we have; Scherff, Van Sloten, Donnal, Boffeli and the next bet whomever that is Walsh, Blythe, Ward, etc.

QB. I do not know here yet but I did like what Sokol was able to show

RB's Weismann, Canzeri, Daniels/Malloy and Bullock(passing downs?)

D-Line Faith, Davis, Cooper and Alvis... Then rotate others in like LTP, Jaleel, Ott, etc.

LB's. The 3 seniors but Kirksey and Morris need to tackle someone this year otherwise I am going to Alston or the next best. Love the spearman kid but he may not be ready.

DB's. Lowrey, Lomax, Law and Draper.... Then next best for nickel and dime packages;

You must have some inside access to know all these guys should be playing.

Have you seen anymore than the spring game and kids day practice?

If you havent, STFU, because this post is beyond ridiculous if you are just going off of 2 scrimmages.

 

[SpecialKHawk]

You must have some inside access to know all these guys should be playing.

Have you seen anymore than the spring game and kids day practice?

If you havent, STFU, because this post is beyond ridiculous if you are just going off of 2 scrimmages.

I will always stand by what i post and let's come back to this post at the end of the year and evaluate the impact of all of these players including the one's you are justifying.

 

[deanvogs]

I will always stand by what i post and let's come back to this post at the end of the year and evaluate the impact of all of these players including the one's you are justifying.

Ok, so you are saying that Cotton >> Shumpert (you could be right, but I wouldn't lay a bet on Cotton the WR myself. He drops too many passes, and has been extremely inconsistent himself)

Donnel >> Walsh (I wouldn't make that bet if I were you, as Walsh is very young to be playing on the OL, and that is usually a sign of a very good OL). I think in the end on this one, both end up being very good OL for Iowa

Law >> Lowdermilk (Who really knows on this one??? I mean Law makes waaaaaay to many mistakes in coverage in what little time he has played. I think this was a true battle this spring and fall, and Lowdermilk beat him out)

You are really picking some nits here. I don't see a big separation with any of the battles you are b!tching and moaning about.

 

[SpecialKHawk]

Ok, so you are saying that Cotton >> Shumpert (you could be right, but I wouldn't lay a bet on Cotton the WR myself. He drops too many passes, and has been extremely inconsistent himself)

Donnel >> Walsh (I wouldn't make that bet if I were you, as Walsh is very young to be playing on the OL, and that is usually a sign of a very good OL). I think in the end on this one, both end up being very good OL for Iowa

Law >> Lowdermilk (Who really knows on this one??? I mean Law makes waaaaaay to many mistakes in coverage in what little time he has played. I think this was a true battle this spring and fall, and Lowdermilk beat him out)

You are really picking some nits here. I don't see a big separation with any of the battles you are b!tching and moaning about.

I agree that is what I am saying on all three. I am not down on Walsh but simply stating it is insane to have Donnal on the bench. I would rather see Blythe have some competition. His play was not good last year granted he was young.

I will take Cotton any day of the week but putting him up against Shumpert you cannot be serious.

Why does Miller get a free pass for poor tackling and pass coverage but Law cannot make a mistake playing for the first time?. He has big time potential and we are wasting it.

Winners always play the best 22 and some guys look great in practice and fizzle in front of crowds while others are the opposite.

You can change coaches and schemes but if your talent evaluations are poor it is not going to matter.

I want to be proven wrong.... I just want to win but these initial two deeps scare me.

 

[Foval21]

Lets go down the list:

QB - no proven guy so who the coaches go with isn't necessarily who will win it. Someone could overtake.

RB - Weisman and Bullock are both weak in areas. I feel Malloy/Daniels bring speed and power.

FB - this position probably will see very little field time.

WR - anyone who thinks we have more than 1 proven player (KMM) is just stupid. Powell played juco but still has to prove himself and learn the offense which the coaches have stated. Smith looks the part but again it is said he is still learning. Cotton is an athletic dynamo but has only shown good things returning. He has dropped a lot of quick screens. Shumpert also has drop problems. Hillyer supposedly can't get much separation. Haluska is very raw. Mccarron is very young.

TE - we have 4 or 5 guys that can really play. Some different packages with these guys could cause a lot of mismatches.

OL - this is the one place you really can't argue with kf. He plays the best. Macmillan played young, Reiff and Bulaga did too. From what I have been told and read there is a level above everyone else where scherff and van Sloten are. Then there is a level where Blythe and boffeli are. Then everyone else was fighting for that last spot. And it came down to Macmillan, Walsh, and Donnal. If Walsh beat out those two guys I would say he is pretty darn good.

DL - not sure we really have anyone truly proven on the line. Ltp is good we will see if he can do it more consistently. Davis has the look but I want to see it in a game. Cooper has done things sporadically. At defensive end ott played last year so he is coming along. The rest are a crap shoot. I don't care what you think the coaches will put who they believe gives them the best chance to win. Faith and Johnson haven't proven anything on the field so why is it hard to believe that someone less heralded might actually play better than them and beat them out. It has happened before.

LB - those three are as solid as it gets to stay where they are. They aren't the best iowa has produced but they are better than most give them credit for.

DB - miller has his issues but no one that has replaced him (and yes he has been sat down) has out played him so it comes back to him. Law has made a lot of mistakes and lowdermilk has been a guy close to breaking through for awhile so that isn't surprising. CB looks pretty good athletically and I think 3 or 4 guys will see a lot of snaps.

 

[ShadasRevenge]

Crazy idea - let's make the assumption that the coaches (who see these guys on the practice field every day) have more experience at higher levels of the game than everyone on this board combined, and have an idea of what they're talking about.

 

[INTIMIDATORHawk]

Crazy idea - let's make the assumption that the coaches (who see these guys on the practice field every day) have more experience at higher levels of the game than everyone on this board combined, and have an idea of what they're talking about.

This type of logic and practicality will NOT be tolerated here!

 

[Cory]

Crazy idea - let's make the assumption that the coaches (who see these guys on the practice field every day) have more experience at higher levels of the game than everyone on this board combined, and have an idea of what they're talking about.

Totally agree with you but the WR order really should make you wonder what they see that no one else does. DS has shown that he cannot get it done on the field. Iowa needs a spark this year and DS would be the last person that I could see being that spark on offense.

i hope I'm totally wrong and he turns into Ed Hinkle but there haven't been any signs of that.

 

[deanvogs]

I agree that is what I am saying on all three. I am not down on Walsh but simply stating it is insane to have Donnal on the bench. I would rather see Blythe have some competition. His play was not good last year granted he was young.

I will take Cotton any day of the week but putting him up against Shumpert you cannot be serious.

Why does Miller get a free pass for poor tackling and pass coverage but Law cannot make a mistake playing for the first time?. He has big time potential and we are wasting it.

Winners always play the best 22 and some guys look great in practice and fizzle in front of crowds while others are the opposite.

You can change coaches and schemes but if your talent evaluations are poor it is not going to matter.

I want to be proven wrong.... I just want to win but these initial two deeps scare me.

Only one of Donnal or Walsh can play, as the other 4 spots are solid. KF and Morgan have more experience in their little fingers than you have over 10 lifetimes, I will trust their judgement on who should be playing on the OL.

Cotton over Shumper I do get where you are coming from, but who really cares if the better player that game ends up with more snaps? Both look like they will play, and playing time will be determined by performance, I could care less who takes the first snap.

Law doesn't play Millers position. It is a battle between Law and Lowdermilk. We have seen Law on the field and it just isn't impressive. He gets his hype as and Internet legend, not from performance. Hopefully things click for him, but as it is color me as unimpressed by his play.

As Shada said, why is it that people think they know more off of one spring game, than coaches know over 15 spring practices, and 15 fall practices? There will be plenty of time to argue about this stuff AFTER we actually see how the players do in games.

 

[PCHawk]

Kirk loves loves loves the good story. Couple that with the fact that he is human, then why is it so hard to believe that he can accidentally let his love for the good story skew his vision when evaluating talent? It would be a natural human mistake. It wouldn't be malicious I don't want to win intent.

Kirk is a very good coach over all but he has shown that he is extremely bad at clock management. So I for one am not going to sit back and just assume that its impossible that he struggles with personnel decisions too.

 

[whammer33024]

yeah i mean when KF would leave DJK off the depth chart or put paki as the starter, dude was loony tunes. obviously only has love for older players and made serious mistakes when he wrote down his depth chart.

lets forget what actually happened during the games and who actually played, i'm mad that he wrote down a few names on a piece of paper over a week before the first game. what a jerk. he has obviously lost it

 

[ShadasRevenge]

Totally agree with you but the WR order really should make you wonder what they see that no one else does. DS has shown that he cannot get it done on the field. Iowa needs a spark this year and DS would be the last person that I could see being that spark on offense.

i hope I'm totally wrong and he turns into Ed Hinkle but there haven't been any signs of that.

I don't wonder about it at all. They're there, I'm not.

 

[deanvogs]

Kirk loves loves loves the good story. Couple that with the fact that he is human, then why is it so hard to believe that he can accidentally let his love for the good story skew his vision when evaluating talent? It would be a natural human mistake. It wouldn't be malicious I don't want to win intent.

Kirk is a very good coach over all but he has shown that he is extremely bad at clock management. So I for one am not going to sit back and just assume that its impossible that he struggles with personnel decisions too.

Kirk has, and will continue to make personel mistakes (every coach has and does). Lets see who does what, before we start proclaiming them mistake though.

The other part of it, is we all know that KF first game depth chart really doesn't tell us who is gonna be playing anyway.

 

[PCHawk]

Kirk has, and will continue to make personel mistakes (every coach has and does). Lets see who does what, before we start proclaiming them mistake though.

The other part of it, is we all know that KF first game depth chart really doesn't tell us who is gonna be playing anyway.

I agree that there is no reason to go nuts until we see them play but I also see nothing wrong with pointing out the positions that you believe are mistakes.

On an unrelated note, does anyone else wonder why it would be considered "reward" to be listed on the depth chart but not play? I think it would be a slap in the face.

 

[RocknRollface]

I have been really upbeat about this coming season and the future as I think we have some underlying talent. I must say though I am concerned with the initial two deeps. I will vent here but will trust the coaches. There had better be a phenomenal effort against NIU as this is a statement game on many levels.

My concern is starting the best 22. I cannot believe that Jordan Cotton is not ahead of Shupmert. Cotton was a bright spot last season while Shumpert was dropping passes at critical times and ended up 8th string. I am also surprised that Smith is behind him and Powell is not listed in the two deeps??? Give me a huge break. I'll take Cotton, Smith, Powell and Manley over any of the rest. Haluska might be my 5th. Get the playmakers on the field.

On the o-line how is Donnal not a starter ahead of Walsh! Walsh looks better this year but Donnal is a stud. Dang I want the biggest and nastiest starting five out there and go after an opponent.

On defense how is Faith not in the two deeps at DE? How can Law not earn a spot and where is Draper? If anyone should have been challenged back there it should have been the free safety. This secondary really has the four best of what we have in this program?

Maybe some of these guys are injured?

I have to believe its a good thing that Shumpert is listed 1. It simply can't be a case of KF giving the nod to a familiar player because he has played less than Cotton in the past and has done nothing on the field to warrant any benefit of the doubt. He must legitimately be doing better than the others in practice. Its not like the dude is unathletic at all, hes big and fast.

 

[PCHawk]

I have to believe its a good thing that Shumpert is listed 1. It simply can't be a case of KF giving the nod to a familiar player because he has played less than Cotton in the past and has done nothing on the field to warrant any benefit of the doubt. He must legitimately be doing better than the others in practice. Its not like the dude is unathletic at all, hes big and fast.

I agree. If he gets nervous and develops stone hands in front of a crowd, you can pull him then. As of now it sounds like we at least have another guy who looks the part.

 

[SpecialKHawk]

I want to take guns to a gunfight not bows and arrows. That is my point.

There is inconsistent player performance accountability where some guys under perform consistently across seasons while others play a game or two and cannot get back onto the field but have 2x the ability of other players.

Good coaches look at a player like Nico Law or a Donnal and say we have to get this guy on the field. In the case of Law do you give him a look at free safety or outside linebacker as an athletic coverage guy and blitz backer if he truly cannot win the strong safety spot which I question? Point being there is too much athleticism and not enough good players already on defense to keep him on the bench. Total waste.

For Donnal... As an opponent who would I rather go up against a proven 6'7" 300 lb+ road grader or an unproven 6'3" 280 lb sophomore? I know who I do not want to see. Which guy has greater pro-potential? In our case it is the guy on the bench.

Play your best 22 athletes and playmakers and we will start playing winning football. Somehow at Iowa we have this jaded view that there is this secret development lab that produces mass quantities of players out of no where. Yes it happens once in a while but part of being successful at this level is constantly evaluating players and performance. What message does that send to the team when good players are on the bench or not in the two deeps while other guys are screwing up and retain their positions without any threat of losing the position? If you have played before you know the guys know to a man who the real players are. When you play the wrong guys it does not take too long before there is internal dissention and you end up with a total meltdown.

 

[WinOneThisCentury]

I want to take guns to a gunfight not bows and arrows. That is my point.

There is inconsistent player performance accountability where some guys under perform consistently across seasons while others play a game or two and cannot get back onto the field but have 2x the ability of other players.

Good coaches look at a player like Nico Law or a Donnal and say we have to get this guy on the field. In the case of Law do you give him a look at free safety or outside linebacker as an athletic coverage guy and blitz backer if he truly cannot win the strong safety spot which I question? Point being there is too much athleticism and not enough good players already on defense to keep him on the bench. Total waste.

For Donnal... As an opponent who would I rather go up against a proven 6'7" 300 lb+ road grader or an unproven 6'3" 280 lb sophomore? I know who I do not want to see. Which guy has greater pro-potential? In our case it is the guy on the bench.

Play your best 22 athletes and playmakers and we will start playing winning football. Somehow at Iowa we have this jaded view that there is this secret development lab that produces mass quantities of players out of no where. Yes it happens once in a while but part of being successful at this level is constantly evaluating players and performance. What message does that send to the team when good players are on the bench or not in the two deeps while other guys are screwing up and retain their positions without any threat of losing the position? If you have played before you know the guys know to a man who the real players are. When you play the wrong guys it does not take too long before there is internal dissention and you end up with a total meltdown.

Dude you are special aren't you...how do you know that Donnal is fully recovered and moving like he should. Why in the hell would the coaches put a guy like Walsh in the RG spot ahead of Donnal if they thought it wouldn't improve our performance. Do you guys think this crap through? I think Donnal will play and for the long haul I hope he beats Walsh out too...but Walsh is there because he's earned it, not only KF's eyes, but also BF's eyes. There is more than one person making these decisions.

 

[Foval21]

I want to take guns to a gunfight not bows and arrows. That is my point.

There is inconsistent player performance accountability where some guys under perform consistently across seasons while others play a game or two and cannot get back onto the field but have 2x the ability of other players.

Good coaches look at a player like Nico Law or a Donnal and say we have to get this guy on the field. In the case of Law do you give him a look at free safety or outside linebacker as an athletic coverage guy and blitz backer if he truly cannot win the strong safety spot which I question? Point being there is too much athleticism and not enough good players already on defense to keep him on the bench. Total waste.

For Donnal... As an opponent who would I rather go up against a proven 6'7" 300 lb+ road grader or an unproven 6'3" 280 lb sophomore? I know who I do not want to see. Which guy has greater pro-potential? In our case it is the guy on the bench.

Play your best 22 athletes and playmakers and we will start playing winning football. Somehow at Iowa we have this jaded view that there is this secret development lab that produces mass quantities of players out of no where. Yes it happens once in a while but part of being successful at this level is constantly evaluating players and performance. What message does that send to the team when good players are on the bench or not in the two deeps while other guys are screwing up and retain their positions without any threat of losing the position? If you have played before you know the guys know to a man who the real players are. When you play the wrong guys it does not take too long before there is internal dissention and you end up with a total meltdown.

Mike Daniels was an unproven and undersized dt...he came from nowhere to be a sensation. Many thought Carl Davis would come in and set the world on fire because of size. If Walsh can beat out Donnal it says a lot about Walsh as Donnal should have had the upper hand being he played so well last year. If you take Blythe out who plays center. That is much different from the other line spots it isn't like you can put anyone there. And we have had smaller centers a lot. They are usually athletic and mean.

i am fine with trying to find ways to get law on the field if he proves to the coaches he deserves it not because of an Internet video where he knocks a helmet off a player with a hit.

 

[PCHawk]

Walsh beating out Donnal is the exact opposite of what would scare me with Kirk picking starters. Donnal is the proven guy and Walsh is the upcoming highly recruited player. Walsh starting tells me one of two things. He is a stud or donnal isn't 100% healthy.

Kirk has been known to leave starters in over unknown talent. I don't think he pulls starters for unknown guys who don't deserve it.