Iowa: Head Coaching Destination Job For All The Wrong Reasons.

I really doubt the donors are sold on Brian. To much baggage. Don't think he gets much of a look. Unless he performs a miracle to end the season.

I think this is a great point. IMO there's way to much speculation that BF is being groomed to be the next HC. I see it as the booster's are 100% behind KF and with BF working his way through the system it keeps KF around. I could be absolutely wrong, but I see it being a situation in which BF has a great deal of appeal to the boosters while dad is around but without dad in the picture may be nothing more than an after thought.

Despite as quick as he moved up the rankings does he really have that much pull or prestige as OC? We still have the same game plan and ideology as we did when KOK was running the offense and I think most of us agree that even with KOK at OC it was still KF calling the shots and I don't see it much different now. We play within KF's system regardless who the OC is.

I just don't see BF as the heir apparent to the throne and don't see him as our next HC.
 
Lolsies...

In order to critique "intellect for greatness" would you not have to know a little something about that topic? You've literally never met the guy or had so much as a conversation with him (or any football staff), yet you know he doesn't have any "innate intellect?" I'm assuming you've never won a P5 football game from the sidelines, but hey...maybe you're Dabo Swinney posting on your day off. Jesus christ, man, you're the exact person @Luftgekuehlt67 was talking about in his post above.

You should tell us what your credentials are for measuring "innate champion's intellect." I'd genuinely like to hear that and respond to it.

That would be like me saying that an F1 mechanic sucks because a motor blew, when 1) I know nothing about F1 cars whatsoever, and 2) there are a million reasons and engine can blow up.
Look, I know you’re knowledgeable and top rated in here. I also know you’re better than this. You’re better than some of the posters who simply call someone a troll for having an opinion contrary to prevailing opinion, or a contrarian way of expressing that opinion. You’re better than to inject as you did the word “any,” as if anywhere in my post I said anything close to KF having “no” intellect.

More to the point, look at how many times Iowa under KF temporarily visits a top 10 or 15 national ranking, but substantially falls ungraciously, bringing the state’s embarrassment with him. The polls may feel that KF has done the work of training fundamentals and discipline and reward him with a high ranking, a motivation, but KF always falls; he never takes it even a notch higher to truly affirm the polling plaudits. Again, the Purdue and Wisky debacles are pure proof of my contention - even you can't deny that. You know that KF leans heavily on the player ‘team leaders’ motivation thing. Well, sometimes well-intentioned college guys need a more mature adult’s leadership to guide them to the next level.

It’s not devastating to say KF has been promoted to his level of incompetency – he’s still a wonderful and honorable man. But Iowa has invested money into a program over decades and now deserves a return on that investment. Yet our return has been maxed out for years – and KF still gets the big salary. Admit it, it’s just too weird how KF can’t, as various other coaches have, pass beyond the team’s threshold. (Chryst?) Aren’t we due for at least some hint of ’85, or even some weekly consistency when reaching a top 10 or 15, or to even win our western division more than once in years? I can't debate this point further, but I’m glad you questioned me and I hope you respect that I responded to you. And, true, I’m not particularly smooth in my posts.
 
Look, I know you’re knowledgeable and top rated in here. I also know you’re better than this. You’re better than some of the posters who simply call someone a troll for having an opinion contrary to prevailing opinion, or a contrarian way of expressing that opinion. You’re better than to inject as you did the word “any,” as if anywhere in my post I said anything close to KF having “no” intellect.

More to the point, look at how many times Iowa under KF temporarily visits a top 10 or 15 national ranking, but substantially falls ungraciously, bringing the state’s embarrassment with him. The polls may feel that KF has done the work of training fundamentals and discipline and reward him with a high ranking, a motivation, but KF always falls; he never takes it even a notch higher to truly affirm the polling plaudits. Again, the Purdue and Wisky debacles are pure proof of my contention - even you can't deny that. You know that KF leans heavily on the player ‘team leaders’ motivation thing. Well, sometimes well-intentioned college guys need a more mature adult’s leadership to guide them to the next level.

It’s not devastating to say KF has been promoted to his level of incompetency – he’s still a wonderful and honorable man. But Iowa has invested money into a program over decades and now deserves a return on that investment. Yet our return has been maxed out for years – and KF still gets the big salary. Admit it, it’s just too weird how KF can’t, as various other coaches have, pass beyond the team’s threshold. (Chryst?) Aren’t we due for at least some hint of ’85, or even some weekly consistency when reaching a top 10 or 15, or to even win our western division more than once in years? I can't debate this point further, but I’m glad you questioned me and I hope you respect that I responded to you. And, true, I’m not particularly smooth in my posts.
As frustrating as it can be sometimes as an Iowa fan, I cannot realistically envision a universe where the Hawks are year in, year out favorites to win the B1G or even the West. We're the perennial underdog. That is one thing that appeals to me; fighting the good fight against sometimes insurmountable odds, teams with better recruiting, more talent, where we still have a chance of winning.

I don't have the slightest idea of how it feels to be a tOSU or 'bama fan where they're odds on favorites in most any game they play, or even a Wisky fan with all those West titles to their name. I just know that a place like Iowa is more likely to mess up a new hire in a major sport as be successful. The margin of error is razor thin with choosing a HC. If Brian is not to be the next head of Iowa football, I'd still think Kirk would want a hand in selecting whomever gets it. He'd certainly know better than any administrator out there who's the best fit for this school.

I am one of the fans who sat through the lean years where Iowa couldn't catch a break, where Jerry Burns and all the rest shit the bed for 20 years. Would I love to contend for the West more often? Hell yes! Would I want to realistically make plans for the playoffs? Absolutely! However there's more to winning than just the HC. I just don't get the feeling Iowa would ever be in the market for the next Urban or Dabo, even if there were a major donor ala Phil Knight or T. Boone Pickens. That's as much a part of the Iowa way as anything. It's a classic David vs. Goliath story. With what we have now, David wins a fair amount. That's success to me.
 
Look, I know you’re knowledgeable and top rated in here.
I'm below-average knowledgable (which is saying something when talking about the average HN poster), and "top rated?" Is there some sort of Amazon type reviewing system around here I'm not aware of?
I also know you’re better than this. You’re better than some of the posters who simply call someone a troll for having an opinion contrary to prevailing opinion, or a contrarian way of expressing that opinion. You’re better than to inject as you did the word “any,” as if anywhere in my post I said anything close to KF having “no” intellect.
Gaslighting doesn't work on me.

Look, I know you’re knowledgeable and top rated in here. I also know you’re better than this. You’re better than some of the posters who simply call someone a troll for having an opinion contrary to prevailing opinion, or a contrarian way of expressing that opinion. You’re better than to inject as you did the word “any,” as if anywhere in my post I said anything close to KF having “no” intellect.

More to the point, look at how many times Iowa under KF temporarily visits a top 10 or 15 national ranking, but substantially falls ungraciously, bringing the state’s embarrassment with him. The polls may feel that KF has done the work of training fundamentals and discipline and reward him with a high ranking, a motivation, but KF always falls; he never takes it even a notch higher to truly affirm the polling plaudits. Again, the Purdue and Wisky debacles are pure proof of my contention - even you can't deny that. You know that KF leans heavily on the player ‘team leaders’ motivation thing. Well, sometimes well-intentioned college guys need a more mature adult’s leadership to guide them to the next level.

It’s not devastating to say KF has been promoted to his level of incompetency – he’s still a wonderful and honorable man. But Iowa has invested money into a program over decades and now deserves a return on that investment. Yet our return has been maxed out for years – and KF still gets the big salary. Admit it, it’s just too weird how KF can’t, as various other coaches have, pass beyond the team’s threshold. (Chryst?) Aren’t we due for at least some hint of ’85, or even some weekly consistency when reaching a top 10 or 15, or to even win our western division more than once in years? I can't debate this point further, but I’m glad you questioned me and I hope you respect that I responded to you. And, true, I’m not particularly smooth in my posts.
That's a lot of typing to dodge the point of my post which was that you have no idea what makes up an "intellect of greatness."
Iowa had the West-division championship in its sites, but the players came to the games questioning themselves, uninspired, and, yes, afraid. They were afraid ‘to win’ because they only had their own intellects to motivate them, as KF was himself so afraid that he couldn’t coach the team under the potential of such success. Nothing says we should’ve won those games, but everything says we should’ve been competitive, if not for the limitations of the coach. Prior week player prep and overall game strategies were grossly lacking. KF is a decent and talented person, but if Iowa wants the 'next level,' or even to stop being embarrassed under the national spotlight, it needs a new brain.
This is absolute garbage. How many hours (or even minutes) have you spent on the practice field observing Iowa football?

How many hours have you spent coaching P5 football, or even playing it? Yet you somehow knew the players were afraid and questioning themselves? You somehow know that KF was "so afraid that he couldn't coach the team?"

What planet do you live on, Skeezix?
 
Yeah, IowaPhan was exactly who I had in mind when I went on my little rant. He's putting on a nice little show here because we're on a (gasp) 2 game losing streak and he thinks he's got us right where he wants us, but:

1) Watch how he posts during the heat of a loss. He's a very small person (figuratively), you'd want him nowhere near you or your organization if you were trying to do anything in an even remotely competitive environment.

2) Even more telling, watch him disappear when the OL finally does click and the wins start coming in again.

Of course, he might just be a troll, too. It's very hard to tell but, either way, it's all part of the fun.
 
I'm below-average knowledgable (which is saying something when talking about the average HN poster), and "top rated?" Is there some sort of Amazon type reviewing system around here I'm not aware of?

Gaslighting doesn't work on me.


That's a lot of typing to dodge the point of my post which was that you have no idea what makes up an "intellect of greatness."

This is absolute garbage. How many hours (or even minutes) have you spent on the practice field observing Iowa football?

How many hours have you spent coaching P5 football, or even playing it? Yet you somehow knew the players were afraid and questioning themselves? You somehow know that KF was "so afraid that he couldn't coach the team?"

What planet do you live on, Skeezix?


Watch Out

Troll on the loose

Trolls Are Leaving Forests And Bridges For The Internet
 
Here is my take. Kirk has kept Iowa competitive (whole body of work and he does have titles and post season successes to go along with it) and they are 6-2 right now. That is not a fireable offense as long as you don't take the view point that it is national championship or bust. If you are consistently competing for West Titles....odds are you are probably closer to flirting with and getting into the playoffs here and there.

If you are a competitive team, you are going to have some seasons where you will find yourself as the West champion, but not necessarily consistently (and probably once or twice a decade flirting with the playoffs). This is where we are at.

I don't ever want to see a Mr. Davis situation again where we kick a coach to the curb who has his program competitive. In short, I think it would be extremely foolish to fire Kirk Ferentz right now.

BUT........if I'm the AD, I'm taking full note of what is happening with the offense led by Brain Ferentz. If I'm a donor I'm taking full note of this as well.

The next Iowa coaching search should be fully open into numerous candidates to take a look at.

If this season continues to nosedive big time, I would hope Kirk would start considering what is in the best interest of the program, especially looking at the future schedules he has to face. But, he still faces no danger of being fired because of the body of work.

If he pulls a Ferentz and rebounds this season but falls short of a West Title with a decent bowl win, he is going to buy more fanfare for himself.....probably even with the larger majority of fringe critics of the fans base he has. The highly critical will still be highly critical of him.

Bottomline, I would not fire Kirk, but I would hope he would retire for the good of the program. His son gets an interview, but he is not at the top of the list as the point.

Yeah;

I don't ever want to see a Mr. Davis situation again where we kick a coach to the curb who has his program competitive. In short, I think it would be extremely foolish to fire Kirk Ferentz right now.

I have stopped dreaming of a National Championship game since the Forest Evashevski
days

I really don't entertain the prospect of making the 4 team playoffs either

Stanford was the last straw

Would have been worse against Bama

Michigan State lost to Alabama 38 to 0 after barely beating the Hawks in the Big
Championship game
 
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I wanted to go but I wasn't born yet.

I was at Dowling in HS and watched the games that were on TV rabidly and listened to them on WHO 1040 rabidly

Those were the glory days

Plus Don Nelson was playing at Iowa and the Hawks almost beat #1 Ohio State
at their house

Nelson outplayed Jerry Lukas that night

Connie Hawkins was on the freshman team with Nelson

Nellie was living in Hawaii, playing cards with Willie Nelson and Woody Harrelson

1636137471850.png

Nelson looks a bit like Aaron White
 
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There is a parallel universe out there where Iowa did not hire Hayden Fry and then spent the next 4+ decades rotating in a new coach every 3-5 years. As a self-styled Student of the Program, I can all but assure you our win percentage over those 40+ years is < .500.

In our hearts and minds, Iowa is a very special place - it's the best, right? Well, to top flight out of state talent (upon which Iowa depends on to build a winning program), Iowa is somewhere between "lol, hard pass" and "one of many interesting options".

It might sound like an obvious statement but, frankly, a lot of you struggle to come to grips with it, it seems. Even more frankly, I think a lot of you would probably struggle to come to grips with a 3rd grade math worksheet, but that's a separate (albeit related) issue.

And as far as Kirk's $5M/per (which comes up constantly), that's pretty near the median asking price for an established P5 football coach. Walking around here acting like you just *know* we should be getting X wins/year for that money just kind of makes you look like a twat honestly. For one thing, it's the key job in an absolutely massive money making enterprise, $5M is the loose change in the Iowa athletic budgets ashtray so you can either come to grips with that kind of money - plus/minus a million or so - being the cost of admission to P5 football, or die mad about it. And as far as nailing down the exact dollar value Ferentz provides the university, Barta himself is only approximating +/- a whole bunch of 0s, so the idea that HawkLuver69Lol on HN has it pinned down to the level he's able to work himself into an indignant rage over the cost/benefit calculation puts my bullshit meter on tilt.

As long as I'm on a roll, I also wonder how much experience some of you have with competition. Yeah, I know, "everything is competition", I get it, but I'm talking *direct* competition. Apples to apples stuff. A lot of competition in normal life, while very real, is also pretty abstract. Every FBS program operates under the same scholly limits, workout restrictions, and on field rules. It's a 52 week/year obsessive chase for better. Approaches vary, but it ultimately comes down to a series of 11v11 snaps over a 60 minute game to see who's beat. Losing to a conference foe...you can be disappointed, even surprised, but the "I can't fucking believe what I'm seeing" attitude towards such an L is a major "you problem", sorry. Every team on the schedule this year are FBS level programs. They are all working this system on a 52 week/yr basis trying to make it happen for themselves, just like Iowa is (though a good number of them are doing it with some advantages that we can only dream of). The idea that a few of those contests a year don't go your way under those kinds of conditions - *especially* in a "bogey" kind of sport like football - is some major "yeah, no shit" territory for me.

I compete in an amateur road racing club (as in "motor racing", like Jackie Stewart used to say). Spec class, so tires, engines, tires, suspension, etc are all very tightly controlled. That, paradoxically, just ups the competition level. It's all just for fun - no trophies or prizes, just guys who really want to beat each other for respect and bragging rights - but it's a whole thing: mind, body, car prep, the works. Find weaknesses and stamp them out. Find strengths and press the advantage. Success or failure on a race track is about as objective and obvious as it gets in life. I've beat guys that I didn't think I'd ever be able to catch I've been beaten by guys I should be lapping, but mostly it's in between. You know why? Competition + chaos theory. A bunch of highly motivated people placed into a tightly controlled, competitive environment. Everybody tries like hell and the results are predictable till they're not.

I'm not saying it's FBS college football, but I see connections. Obviously, big time college football has exponentially more pressure, but it also has the added wrinkle of the scarcity of talent (which Iowa feels more than most P5 programs). That would be like if there was a certain kind of extra fast fuel of which there was only 200 gallons/year available and it was every man for himself to procure. That's a whole other layer of competition right there.

Oh, and before the amateur racing thing, I competed at distance running. Again, I'm not talking about the Olympics, but certainly at a level where I was having to work progressively harder for less gain against a bunch of people doing the same.

I don't think you necessarily need to experience something like any of that first hand to be able to have insight into what intense direct competition is really like. You can certainly get it from being just a careful, thoughtful observer for sure. But I also think a lot of you are pampered pussies who really have *no* idea and, as a result, your crybaby posts ooze internet tough guy poser energy that I can smell from a mile off.

We'd be Nebraska (probably worse) if it were up to those types.


Damn Fine Stuff ^^^

There have been quite a few Glorious Moments under The Captain

Just off the top of my head:

The wins over highly ranked Michigan
The slaughter of Ohio State at Kinnick
The Bowl win over LSU

It's All Good
 
I was at Dowling in HS and watched the games that were on TV rabidly and listened to them on WHO 1040 rabidly

Those were the glory days

Plus Don Nelson was playing at Iowa and the Hawks almost beat #1 Ohio State
at their house

Nelson outplayed Jerry Luka that night

Connie Hawkins was on the freshman team with Nelson

Nellie was living in Hawaii, playing cards with Willie Nelson and Woody Harrelson

View attachment 8239

Nelson looks a bit like Aaron White


Just found this

Today, the games take place at Nelson’s home in Paia, an area on the northern coast of Maui. Rumor is they take place every Monday night at his oceanfront pad, and when the weather is nice, which is often the case in Hawaii, they take the table outside. Games are cash-only and all debts must be paid at the table. Woody Harrelson was once down $40,000 to Willie, and the country star required that money before Harrelson left for the night, even though the actor lives right around the corner. Friend or foe, debts must be paid, and reports are some games have become heated over the years because of these stipulations.


Aside from the aforementioned Woody Harrelson, other frequent guests include: Owen and Luke Wilson, Matthew McConaughey, legendary basketball coach Don Nelson, Kris Kristofferson, country singer Jamey Johnson, and a few others. Some celebrities show up less frequently, perhaps realizing the game is a bit rich for their blood. Some are invited but opt to skip, as is the case with Michelle Monaghan, who turned down the invite while she was pregnant and fearful of giving her unborn child a contact high, along with country star Toby Keith, who learned his lesson smoking with Willie once in Texas, which inspired Keith’s song “I’ll Never Smoke Weed With Willie Again.”
 
Also, for the millionth fucking time, do some of you really not understand the difference between Iowa and Wisconsin?

I've said it before, Wisconsin is a great stretch goal for us and not completely unrealistic, but at some point you have to come to grips with the advantages they have over us. Absolutely zero respect for the relative qualities of our opponents, which is like "I have never been subject to direct competition in my entire life" dead giveaway #1.

For starters, Wisconsin has double the state population we do, and no other in state D1 (FBS or FCS) schools to compete with. As I've said before, they are essentially a mini Ohio State in this regard.

You can of course say the same things about Minnesota but, while Wisconsin has had excellent coaching for 3 decades straight now, Minnesota has rotated through one jackass after another (which is, ironically, the ride a lot of you think you want to get on).

UW-Madison is also damn near twice the enrollment numbers of Iowa, too. So you've also got roughly twice the alumni base. That means more donors. As proud as we are of our facilities, Wisconsin can always match. It's just money.

Iowa City. We all love Iowa City, it's the capital of the college football world to us. Yeah, Madison is everything Iowa City is but more so. If you have a kid from neither Iowa or Wisconsin and he takes a campus visit to both places, assuming he isn't a hard lean towards either program already, which town is going to come out on top more times than not? I'll answer for you: it's Madison.

As long as Paul Chryst is running the show, the Wisconsin program is going to be a real challenge for Iowa to keep up with.

None of that means you have to be content with Ferentz but it does mean you have to come to the hard realization that a well run Wisconsin program is going to beat a well run Iowa program more times than not. Find a better litmus test.
 
Also, for the millionth fucking time, do some of you really not understand the difference between Iowa and Wisconsin?

I've said it before, Wisconsin is a great stretch goal for us and not completely unrealistic, but at some point you have to come to grips with the advantages they have over us. Absolutely zero respect for the relative qualities of our opponents, which is like "I have never been subject to direct competition in my entire life" dead giveaway #1.

For starters, Wisconsin has double the state population we do, and no other in state D1 (FBS or FCS) schools to compete with. As I've said before, they are essentially a mini Ohio State in this regard.

You can of course say the same things about Minnesota but, while Wisconsin has had excellent coaching for 3 decades straight now, Minnesota has rotated through one jackass after another (which is, ironically, the ride a lot of you think you want to get on).

UW-Madison is also damn near twice the enrollment numbers of Iowa, too. So you've also got roughly twice the alumni base. That means more donors. As proud as we are of our facilities, Wisconsin can always match. It's just money.

Iowa City. We all love Iowa City, it's the capital of the college football world to us. Yeah, Madison is everything Iowa City is but more so. If you have a kid from neither Iowa or Wisconsin and he takes a campus visit to both places, assuming he isn't a hard lean towards either program already, which town is going to come out on top more times than not? I'll answer for you: it's Madison.

As long as Paul Chryst is running the show, the Wisconsin program is going to be a real challenge for Iowa to keep up with.

None of that means you have to be content with Ferentz but it does mean you have to come to the hard realization that a well run Wisconsin program is going to beat a well run Iowa program more times than not. Find a better litmus test.
Also, I know this one will fall on deaf ears because most of the people I'm ranting at haven't seen the inside of a school since the 8th grade, but UW is also an amazing school. It's always on those "public ivy" lists.

Iowa is a very good school - once again, we're all very proud and we're punching above our weight class there too - but again, it's all relative. Wisconsin is kicking sand in our face academically, too.

It sucks. I hate losing to those guys, but I at least get some of the factors that cause that to happen more frequently than I'd like.
 
Madison Wisconsin, pre Barry, was in my opinion one of the last social outposts in the country to completely recover from Vietnam era campus social unrest. There were still strong remnants of it well into the eighties.. This caused butting of heads between university administration and the athletic department, and butting of heads of state legislature (right there in the same city as the college) with both university administration and the athletic department.

Alvarez deserves credit for much more than resuscitation of a dead program. He had to battle his own administration and state legislature as well, and get alumni and boosters on the same page. It is because of his efforts that Wisconsin enjoys the built in advantages you mention.

Minnesota had their man in Jerry Kill who was a decent man who also knew how to beat Iowa. But his epileptic seizures curtailed his career. But your observations are correct again. Minnesota has long been the clown show of the B1G, going back to the days of coaches like Bill Musselman, Jim Dutcher and Joe Salem.
 
Yeah;

I don't ever want to see a Mr. Davis situation again where we kick a coach to the curb who has his program competitive. In short, I think it would be extremely foolish to fire Kirk Ferentz right now.

I have stopped dreaming of a National Championship game since the Forest Evashevski
days

I really don't entertain the prospect of making the 4 team playoffs either

Stanford was the last straw

Would have been worse against Bama

Michigan State lost to Alabama 38 to 0 after barely beating the Hawks in the Big
Championship game
Bob Bowlsby was never a Mr. Davis fan. Bump Elliott hired Tom. Bowlsby was looking for a new direction from the moment he took the job and fell in love with Steve Alford, who was Bowlsby's wunderkind. There were rumors of Alford coming to Iowa even before it was announced that Bowlsby wouldn't renew Davis' contract. And Davis had come under fire from key boosters for both lazy in state recruiting and lax handling of Chris Kingsbury's off the court problems.

There was at least one person who quietly had to be rooting for Davis to get extended. Roy Williams at Kansas. Roy was pilfering many of the state of Iowa's best players.
 
Bob Bowlsby was never a Mr. Davis fan. Bump Elliott hired Tom. Bowlsby was looking for a new direction from the moment he took the job and fell in love with Steve Alford, who was Bowlsby's wunderkind. There were rumors of Alford coming to Iowa even before it was announced that Bowlsby wouldn't renew Davis' contract. And Davis had come under fire from key boosters for both lazy in state recruiting and lax handling of Chris Kingsbury's off the court problems.

There was at least one person who quietly had to be rooting for Davis to get extended. Roy Williams at Kansas. Roy was pilfering many of the state of Iowa's best players.
We are totally on the same page, Northside, but I will say the challenges of keeping top notch in state hoops talent are really the same to day as they were a quarter century ago. Iowa and ISU have both really struggled across coaching regimes in terms of protecting the home turf.

In that regard, I think Iowa football should be very proud. I went back through all the consensus All American teams back to 1999. There have been 5 Iowa HS players who have gone on to be consensus All Americans in that time window (Clark, Kaeding, Gallery, Scherff, and Jewell). All 5 have been Hawkeyes. I doubt any other program in a state with 5 or more All Americans in that time span can say the same. The pool is relatively small, but Ferentz has done a great job of maximizing the in state talent that is available.

Iowa State has only had 1 consensus All American in that same time span (and, keep in mind, the 5 I cited above for Iowa are only the in state kids - Iowa has had several out of state consensus All Americans, too). That would be Breece Hall, who is an out of state kid (Nebraska I think?)

Here are the top talent producers by state if you're curious:

1. Texas - 88
2. Florida - 67
3. California - 55
4. Georgia - 37
5. Ohio - 33
6. Oklahoma - 23
7. Louisiana - 21
8. Pennsylvania - 18
9. Alabama - 17
t10. New Jersey - 15
t10. Tennessee - 15

Iowa as I mentioned has produced 5.

Illinois, regarded by many of us as a relative hot bed of talent, has produced 9.

Wisconsin has produced 10. Most of those have stayed in state, but at least 1 got away I recall (can't remember who). Wisconsin has also had a consensus All American RB a shocking 5 times over that period:

Ron Dayne (New Jersey)
Montee Ball (Missouri) x 2
Melvin Gordon (Wisconsin)
Jonathan Taylor (New Jersey) x2

When you have a bigger in state talent pool to cherry pick from, that frees up relatively more resources to go out and chase out of state kids. It's a huge advantage whether the lunatic fringe around here wants to admit it or not.
 
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I see the usual litany of excuses and rationalizations are on full display.

Personally, I don’t expect any national championships for Iowa. But I would like to see at least an average offense on the field, and a Big 10 West title more than once a decade. That’s not too much to ask nor expect. There is zero reason the Hawks can’t play in the Big 10 title game at least as much as Northwestern.
 
I can live with 7.5 wins on average a year, which is what Kirk has averaged. Increasingly what I can’t tolerate is this putrid offense. I end up watching games on DVR as the games are so fucking boring.

I will never understand why any WR or QB signs with us.
 
I think something else that muddies the waters as far as evaluating both Ferentz and Iowa as a program is that we are in the unprecedented situation of having 2 coaches since 1979. A lot's changed in the world of college football since 1979.

We know the program had fallen on hard times post-Evy. I think we hit .500 only once in that post-Evy, pre-Fry era. Fry very clearly got the program winning at a, relatively speaking, significantly higher percentage. I can't remember who (but thank you to that mystery poster), but another poster recently pointed out to me that Commings had attracted some good talent in the years immediately prior to Fry's hiring. I looked into it a bit and I believe there is some truth to it - Fry had some immediate success and, indeed, several key components were Commings recruits. Obviously, Fry sustained a level of success (through multiple up/down cycles) after Comming's players were long gone, so I don't think you can make too much of this other than Hayden had a bit more of a leg up on doing what he did than it might seem at first glance but, for me, that really doesn't significantly shift my opinions of what Fry achieved here.

So, you have the Fry resume that's pretty well known, basically spanning the 80s and 90s. A couple peaks, a couple valleys, none of which are what you'd call sustained. The important takeaway is that it was two decades worth of Iowa football that were, in the context of the overall program history, a bit above average (in the context of the previous 2 decades prior to Fry's arrival, I'd say they were "well above average").

That brings us to, what for me, is a very instructional time period in program history - the Fry to Ferentz hand off. For me, this runs from 1997-2001 (Fry's last winning season to Ferentz's first). 1998 and 2000 were not great years, but aren't really outliers as far as either (a) what "down years" have looked like in the Fry/Ferentz era and (b) what truly *bad* seasons have looked like for Iowa historically. For a modern Hawk fan (who, with apologies to a couple of the old timers here, almost certainly doesn't remember Evy and probably remembers very little - if anything - pre-Fry) to really understand what Iowa playing *truly bad* football looks like over the last 40 seasons, if you don't remember it (I do, unfortunately) or it has gotten foggy for, you really need to go back and look at that 1999 season.

That is what the Iowa football program looks like when it's not being properly fed and cared for. It happened alarmingly quickly, too. You went from a 1997 team that, on the basis of a very good 1996, was expected to compete for a Big Ten title to, two years later, the worst season of Iowa football since the Frank X. Laterbur train wreck.

Of course we know now that Fry was (privately) struggling with very serious health issues over this era so, by his own acknowledgement, the great man's accelerator was not all the way to the floor. Look at how quickly and low the program fell, just like that.

From there, we have the Ferentz era. This is even more fresh and I think most of us are well acquainted with both the highs and lows. Obviously, just like under Fry's 2 decade reign, the college football landscape has shifted throughout Ferentz's 2 decades as well. Is Ferentz the absolute best Iowa can do? Of course not. For starters, Nick Saban exists. Beyond that, due to the randomness of the universe, it's probably pretty safe to say that the theoretical best college football coach to have ever walked the face of the earth has never even seen a game of football! You have to temper your expectations with the reality of knowing you're trying to do the best with what you, at a given point in time and space, can get your hands on. There are better football coaches than Kirk Ferentz (no shit), but they're not exactly falling out of trees.

If you were to let Ferentz go at the end of any given season, you'd have a matter of weeks to find a replacement (a coaching switch is a nightmare in terms of recruiting under even the best of circumstances). You'd need, within those few weeks, to hire a coach that - ideally - would out perform the last one. You're not hiring Nick Saban and you don't have the time to look through 8 billion candidates to find that theoretical unicorn. You need to hire someone - here and now - who is both a fit and willing to take the job. Be honest with yourself, if that's your ass on the line - your reputation, your money - what is your confidence level? Yeah, I know, back to back fullback dives, we're all just beside ourselves. But NY6 bowls. Packed stadium. Big time upsets with the college football world watching. For the most part, great kids and coaches who really care about them as people (I know, Doyle, but he's gone). More wins than losses is very nearly a lead pipe lock for 40 fucking years.

On the other hand, 1999. Frank X. Laterbur. Weigh one hand and then weigh the other. Be honest. If your ass was on the line, would you make the call? I'm guessing some of you would, but that's why such decisions are left to highly paid professionals and not mouth breathing HN trolls.

By the way, none of this armchair program analysis is purely finger in the wind. I've done relatively extensive research into Iowa's historical program performance using Massey data. False humility aside, I have a much better (and objective) appreciation of the overall 120+ year program arc than the overwhelming majority of fans (even hard core ones).
 
I see the usual litany of excuses and rationalizations are on full display.

Personally, I don’t expect any national championships for Iowa. But I would like to see at least an average offense on the field, and a Big 10 West title more than once a decade. That’s not too much to ask nor expect. There is zero reason the Hawks can’t play in the Big 10 title game at least as much as Northwestern.

I am a KF guy, but there isn't a counter-argument to this
 
I think something else that muddies the waters as far as evaluating both Ferentz and Iowa as a program is that we are in the unprecedented situation of having 2 coaches since 1979. A lot's changed in the world of college football since 1979.

We know the program had fallen on hard times post-Evy. I think we hit .500 only once in that post-Evy, pre-Fry era. Fry very clearly got the program winning at a, relatively speaking, significantly higher percentage. I can't remember who (but thank you to that mystery poster), but another poster recently pointed out to me that Commings had attracted some good talent in the years immediately prior to Fry's hiring. I looked into it a bit and I believe there is some truth to it - Fry had some immediate success and, indeed, several key components were Commings recruits. Obviously, Fry sustained a level of success (through multiple up/down cycles) after Comming's players were long gone, so I don't think you can make too much of this other than Hayden had a bit more of a leg up on doing what he did than it might seem at first glance but, for me, that really doesn't significantly shift my opinions of what Fry achieved here.

So, you have the Fry resume that's pretty well known, basically spanning the 80s and 90s. A couple peaks, a couple valleys, none of which are what you'd call sustained. The important takeaway is that it was two decades worth of Iowa football that were, in the context of the overall program history, a bit above average (in the context of the previous 2 decades prior to Fry's arrival, I'd say they were "well above average").

That brings us to, what for me, is a very instructional time period in program history - the Fry to Ferentz hand off. For me, this runs from 1997-2001 (Fry's last winning season to Ferentz's first). 1998 and 2000 were not great years, but aren't really outliers as far as either (a) what "down years" have looked like in the Fry/Ferentz era and (b) what truly *bad* seasons have looked like for Iowa historically. For a modern Hawk fan (who, with apologies to a couple of the old timers here, almost certainly doesn't remember Evy and probably remembers very little - if anything - pre-Fry) to really understand what Iowa playing *truly bad* football looks like over the last 40 seasons, if you don't remember it (I do, unfortunately) or it has gotten foggy for, you really need to go back and look at that 1999 season.

That is what the Iowa football program looks like when it's not being properly fed and cared for. It happened alarmingly quickly, too. You went from a 1997 team that, on the basis of a very good 1996, was expected to compete for a Big Ten title to, two years later, the worst season of Iowa football since the Frank X. Laterbur train wreck.

Of course we know now that Fry was (privately) struggling with very serious health issues over this era so, by his own acknowledgement, the great man's accelerator was not all the way to the floor. Look at how quickly and low the program fell, just like that.

From there, we have the Ferentz era. This is even more fresh and I think most of us are well acquainted with both the highs and lows. Obviously, just like under Fry's 2 decade reign, the college football landscape has shifted throughout Ferentz's 2 decades as well. Is Ferentz the absolute best Iowa can do? Of course not. For starters, Nick Saban exists. Beyond that, due to the randomness of the universe, it's probably pretty safe to say that the theoretical best college football coach to have ever walked the face of the earth has never even seen a game of football! You have to temper your expectations with the reality of knowing you're trying to do the best with what you, at a given point in time and space, can get your hands on. There are better football coaches than Kirk Ferentz (no shit), but they're not exactly falling out of trees.

If you were to let Ferentz go at the end of any given season, you'd have a matter of weeks to find a replacement (a coaching switch is a nightmare in terms of recruiting under even the best of circumstances). You'd need, within those few weeks, to hire a coach that - ideally - would out perform the last one. You're not hiring Nick Saban and you don't have the time to look through 8 billion candidates to find that theoretical unicorn. You need to hire someone - here and now - who is both a fit and willing to take the job. Be honest with yourself, if that's your ass on the line - your reputation, your money - what is your confidence level? Yeah, I know, back to back fullback dives, we're all just beside ourselves. But NY6 bowls. Packed stadium. Big time upsets with the college football world watching. For the most part, great kids and coaches who really care about them as people (I know, Doyle, but he's gone). More wins than losses is very nearly a lead pipe lock for 40 fucking years.

On the other hand, 1999. Frank X. Laterbur. Weigh one hand and then weigh the other. Be honest. If your ass was on the line, would you make the call? I'm guessing some of you would, but that's why such decisions are left to highly paid professionals and not mouth breathing HN trolls.

By the way, none of this armchair program analysis is purely finger in the wind. I've done relatively extensive research into Iowa's historical program performance using Massey data. False humility aside, I have a much better (and objective) appreciation of the overall 120+ year program arc than the overwhelming majority of fans (even hard core ones).


I think the 2005-07 stretch is the key to all this. imo, KF made up his mind that he was going to win a certain type of way, with a certain type of kid and it was validated with the 08 and 09 seasons. After 09 I think KF doubled down on his philosophy and never second guess it since.
 

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