Iowa: Head Coaching Destination Job For All The Wrong Reasons.

[MelroseHawkins]

Is Iowa classified as a "destination job"? When we think of college football program destination jobs, we most often think of Blue Blood programs or programs in mild climates or in the coastal areas in America. The most likely scenario is the combination of both those instances, pointing to a great program in a great area to call home.

Iowa in the last 42 years has had two coaches, TWO! Hayden Fry and Kirk Ferentz have guided that ship for damn near a generation. What other school can claim this, Blue Blood or a coastal school? I'm not even going to take the time to look it up. I'm going to bet on the under on that one. What is unique about Iowa is that it is not a Blue Blood program or a program in a mild climate or on the coast. It is in middle America with a wide variance of weather, and often times bad, and quite hard to recruit top players from the south or other areas around the country. Iowa is often referred to as a "developmental program" which usually means the program will have its rises and dips in success. At most other developmental programs, often smaller schools or schools in similar situations as Iowa, a coach that has success often leaves to go on to bigger and better programs.

What is it about Iowa? I think it comes down to one thing. I think it comes down to the leash that is given to Iowa coaches and the support that the coaches receive from administration and the boosters. This is really rare, IMO, and it is almost to a fault if one thinks about it. This could be the proverbial two sided sword. Is the leash too long? Should this be accepted at a school like Iowa that is expected to have occasional dips? Do coaches look at Iowa as one of the premier jobs, not because they are expected to win on an annual basis, but because they know they will have job security for a long time if stay competitive? Is that a good reason to be a destination job? Does the University of Iowa have too much patience? Hmm.

 

[Dadman]

Does the University of Iowa have too much patience? Hmm.

This^

I think as far as how much leash the coaches get to maintain staff is the main issue. When it isn't working, at some point the athletic director has to step in. Yeah....right

 

[NCHawker]

Does the University of Iowa have too much patience? Hmm.

schools of thoughts here.

1) too damned patient. Iowa should be 10-11 win team each season and Iowa needs a coach who is committed to that. Should be at least = to Wisconsin. I'm sick of them Hawkeyes

2) Contend for the West from time to time, Get 8 - 9 wins a year however you can get those wins. Don't worry about how IWA compares to other teams regarding statistics. I'm sometimes frustrated but proud of them Hawkeyes.

3) one false move and its 6-6 or so each year or worse!. Look at the map for cripes sakes, there aint a lot of talent here. This palooka punches above its weight class and that's good enough. I'm so... I'm so proud of them Hawkeyes.

 

[Hawkboys]

Does the University of Iowa have too much patience? Hmm.

schools of thoughts here.

1) too damned patient. Iowa should be 10-11 win team each season and Iowa needs a coach who is committed to that. Should be at least = to Wisconsin. I'm sick of them Hawkeyes

2) Contend for the West from time to time, Get 8 - 9 wins a year however you can get those wins. Don't worry about how IWA compares to other teams regarding statistics. I'm sometimes frustrated but proud of them Hawkeyes.

3) one false move and its 6-6 or so each year or worse!. Look at the map for cripes sakes, there aint a lot of talent here. This palooka punches above its weight class and that's good enough. I'm so... I'm so proud of them Hawkeyes.

I'm in camp 2

 

[Fryowa]

This^

I think as far as how much leash the coaches get to maintain staff is the main issue. When it isn't working, at some point the athletic director has to step in. Yeah....right

Less than zero chance that Gary Farta would ever, or could ever do anything that impacts the football HC or coordinator positions short of one of them committing a crime or being involved in a scandal. We at HN or other fan boards, folks who know the 2 deeps by heart going several years back are the 1%'ers. Kirk Ferentz is universally beloved by the other 99% because he's a blue collar style guy who's relatively upstanding when it comes to personal character. That dude is going nowhere until he decides it's time, and I can about guarantee you that when his time comes if he decides Brian should be the next guy, donors are gonna listen to him.

Donors decide who they want as head coach and Farta is along for the ride.

 

[Luftgekuehlt67]

Does the University of Iowa have too much patience? Hmm.

schools of thoughts here.

1) too damned patient. Iowa should be 10-11 win team each season and Iowa needs a coach who is committed to that. Should be at least = to Wisconsin. I'm sick of them Hawkeyes

2) Contend for the West from time to time, Get 8 - 9 wins a year however you can get those wins. Don't worry about how IWA compares to other teams regarding statistics. I'm sometimes frustrated but proud of them Hawkeyes.

3) one false move and its 6-6 or so each year or worse!. Look at the map for cripes sakes, there aint a lot of talent here. This palooka punches above its weight class and that's good enough. I'm so... I'm so proud of them Hawkeyes.

I think this is a very accurate summation! I have my own opinions of who is right/wrong of course, but I think you did a nice job of making high level buckets of where people are at.

From where I stand, you need *at least* one of 3 factors to maintain the expectations NC mentions in opinion bucket 1:

A) A large talent/population base
B) An elite program tradition
C) A bit of "deus ex machina" in the form of a Phil Knight or T. Boone Pickens type situation

Iowa has none of the above. The reason we're able to compete at the level we do is because of the hard won stability and consistency that we've established under Fry and Ferentz.

With average coaching, I believe Iowa's average case scenario is likely worse than 6-6.

I'm actually doing a talent pool analysis as we speak that I'm hoping to post in the next few days. I think a lot of Hawk fans severely underestimate the challenges of bringing talent to Iowa City, IA.

 

[1977Hawkeye]

Seems to me like it's a fine line to walk. I don't believe in knee-jerk reactions to stuff and tend to prefer a bit more leash given as opposed to less. On the flip side, too much leash (IMO) can lead to the staff feeling a bit too content. From where I sit, I believe we're seeing the latter.

I think KF has done a good job here and deserves to go out on his own terms, but I also believe he has zero motivation to try to make things any better than they are (I'm referring mainly to the offense). Stands are full and he's got a fat paycheck. That all seems to be "good enough" for the powers that be.

There is zero heat on the guy. If he starts going 3-9 every year, that may change, but as long as the team is going to bowl games every year, I don't see anything changing.

 

[HaydenHawk56]

Here is my take. Kirk has kept Iowa competitive (whole body of work and he does have titles and post season successes to go along with it) and they are 6-2 right now. That is not a fireable offense as long as you don't take the view point that it is national championship or bust. If you are consistently competing for West Titles....odds are you are probably closer to flirting with and getting into the playoffs here and there.

If you are a competitive team, you are going to have some seasons where you will find yourself as the West champion, but not necessarily consistently (and probably once or twice a decade flirting with the playoffs). This is where we are at.

I don't ever want to see a Mr. Davis situation again where we kick a coach to the curb who has his program competitive. In short, I think it would be extremely foolish to fire Kirk Ferentz right now.

BUT........if I'm the AD, I'm taking full note of what is happening with the offense led by Brain Ferentz. If I'm a donor I'm taking full note of this as well.

The next Iowa coaching search should be fully open into numerous candidates to take a look at.

If this season continues to nosedive big time, I would hope Kirk would start considering what is in the best interest of the program, especially looking at the future schedules he has to face. But, he still faces no danger of being fired because of the body of work.

If he pulls a Ferentz and rebounds this season but falls short of a West Title with a decent bowl win, he is going to buy more fanfare for himself.....probably even with the larger majority of fringe critics of the fans base he has. The highly critical will still be highly critical of him.

Bottomline, I would not fire Kirk, but I would hope he would retire for the good of the program. His son gets an interview, but he is not at the top of the list as the point.

 

[NCHawker]

Is Iowa classified as a "destination job"? When we think of college football program destination jobs, we most often think of Blue Blood programs or programs in mild climates or in the coastal areas in America. The most likely scenario is the combination of both those instances, pointing to a great program in a great area to call home.

Iowa in the last 42 years has had two coaches, TWO! Hayden Fry and Kirk Ferentz have guided that ship for damn near a generation. What other school can claim this, Blue Blood or a coastal school? I'm not even going to take the time to look it up. I'm going to bet on the under on that one. What is unique about Iowa is that it is not a Blue Blood program or a program in a mild climate or on the coast. It is in middle America with a wide variance of weather, and often times bad, and quite hard to recruit top players from the south or other areas around the country. Iowa is often referred to as a "developmental program" which usually means the program will have its rises and dips in success. At most other developmental programs, often smaller schools or schools in similar situations as Iowa, a coach that has success often leaves to go on to bigger and better programs.

What is it about Iowa? I think it comes down to one thing. I think it comes down to the leash that is given to Iowa coaches and the support that the coaches receive from administration and the boosters. This is really rare, IMO, and it is almost to a fault if one thinks about it. This could be the proverbial two sided sword. Is the leash too long? Should this be accepted at a school like Iowa that is expected to have occasional dips? Do coaches look at Iowa as one of the premier jobs, not because they are expected to win on an annual basis, but because they know they will have job security for a long time if stay competitive? Is that a good reason to be a destination job? Does the University of Iowa have too much patience? Hmm.

Is Iowa this a destination job?

It has been for two people. And its been that way because they had enough success, they picked guys who liked it here and the expectations were realistic. All of these planets needed to line up for it to happen.

What could go wrong the next time around?

Coach is very successful and leaves for a "bigger name job" or NFL.
Coach is successful but does not get along with boosters
coach is moderately successful and is let go after 5 years
coach is not successful and is not let go for 5 years (patience)

All of these are realistic scenarios. We're not used to change.

 

[ChosenChildren]

Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm guessing the vast majority of the people on this board were not attending Iowa football games from 1961 through 1980 (20 seasons in all) when Iowa won about 33% of their games.

From 1981 through 2021 inclusive we have won well over 60% of our games.

I'm glad we only had 2 coaches. They were the correct 2, for sure.

 

[Fryowa]

Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm guessing the vast majority of the people on this board were not attending Iowa football games from 1961 through 1980

I wanted to go but I wasn't born yet.

 

[guffus]

Well the real answer is that every 5-6 years, KF pulls out an invite to a BCS/NY6 bowl game and then the clock starts over. Meanwhile KF has a bunch of 7-6 and 8-5 seasons but only once has finished worse than 6-7.

In other words, he does juuuust enough to never get fired

 

[guffus]

Actually now that I think about it, there was probably 3 different years where Iowa could have justified firing KF

2007, 2012 and 2014

In 2007, Iowa finished 6-6 and missed a bowl after losing to WMU in the season final. This followed 6-7 in 2006 and 7-5 in 2005.

In 2012, Iowa finished 4-8, missing a bowl, and losing its last 6 games. This followed finishing 7-6 in 2011.

In 2014, Iowa finished 7-6, getting destroyed in the Hawkslayer bowl. This was only 2 years after that disaster in 2012.

In addition to those years, I would also list 2006, and 2017 before the bowl game as years that Iowa could have considered it, but would not have really been justified in firing KF

As for Fry, there was no year where it was justified but there was probably a few years they could have considered it:
1989, 1994 and 1998.

1998 of course was the year that Fry stepped down anyway.

 

[trj]

Actually now that I think about it, there was probably 3 different years where Iowa could have justified firing KF

2007, 2012 and 2014

In 2007, Iowa finished 6-6 and missed a bowl after losing to WMU in the season final. This followed 6-7 in 2006 and 7-5 in 2005.

In 2012, Iowa finished 4-8, missing a bowl, and losing its last 6 games. This followed finishing 7-6 in 2011.

In 2014, Iowa finished 7-6, getting destroyed in the Hawkslayer bowl. This was only 2 years after that disaster in 2012.

In addition to those years, I would also list 2006, and 2017 before the bowl game as years that Iowa could have considered it, but would not have really been justified in firing KF

As for Fry, there was no year where it was justified but there was probably a few years they could have considered it:
1989, 1994 and 1998.

1998 of course was the year that Fry stepped down anyway.

Being allowed to hit the reset button 3 times in modern college football is rare and I am not including the rhabdo stuff or what happened last Summer.

 

[uihawk82]

Iowa is a really good coaching destination because it is a top 25 type program on average and you can build some really great teams here. And because of that coaches have a lot of winning seasons and go to a lot of bowl games. And the salary is great

Iowa has only 8 losing seasons under Fry and Kirk which is quite a record (I am not counting 2005 which was a 6-6 season and they played up in class in the close bowl game loss.

 

[Northside Hawk]

Actually now that I think about it, there was probably 3 different years where Iowa could have justified firing KF

2007, 2012 and 2014

In 2007, Iowa finished 6-6 and missed a bowl after losing to WMU in the season final. This followed 6-7 in 2006 and 7-5 in 2005.

In 2012, Iowa finished 4-8, missing a bowl, and losing its last 6 games. This followed finishing 7-6 in 2011.

In 2014, Iowa finished 7-6, getting destroyed in the Hawkslayer bowl. This was only 2 years after that disaster in 2012.

In addition to those years, I would also list 2006, and 2017 before the bowl game as years that Iowa could have considered it, but would not have really been justified in firing KF

As for Fry, there was no year where it was justified but there was probably a few years they could have considered it:
1989, 1994 and 1998.

1998 of course was the year that Fry stepped down anyway.

2007 was probably the closest year to making a case. The team was llistless, there was a myriad of off the field issues, and it is believed he was sniffing one or two NFL jobs.

Hayden's 1989 down year was mostly, I believe, due to several assistant coaches moving on, and lackadaisical years in 1994 (and 1992 and 1993) were due in some part to beefed up non conference schedules and poor recruiting (which may have originated from all the assistants moving on in 1989 and 1990).

 

[dahlhawk]

I really doubt the donors are sold on Brian. To much baggage. Don't think he gets much of a look. Unless he performs a miracle to end the season.

 

[Luftgekuehlt67]

There is a parallel universe out there where Iowa did not hire Hayden Fry and then spent the next 4+ decades rotating in a new coach every 3-5 years. As a self-styled Student of the Program, I can all but assure you our win percentage over those 40+ years is < .500.

In our hearts and minds, Iowa is a very special place - it's the best, right? Well, to top flight out of state talent (upon which Iowa depends on to build a winning program), Iowa is somewhere between "lol, hard pass" and "one of many interesting options".

It might sound like an obvious statement but, frankly, a lot of you struggle to come to grips with it, it seems. Even more frankly, I think a lot of you would probably struggle to come to grips with a 3rd grade math worksheet, but that's a separate (albeit related) issue.

And as far as Kirk's $5M/per (which comes up constantly), that's pretty near the median asking price for an established P5 football coach. Walking around here acting like you just *know* we should be getting X wins/year for that money just kind of makes you look like a twat honestly. For one thing, it's the key job in an absolutely massive money making enterprise, $5M is the loose change in the Iowa athletic budgets ashtray so you can either come to grips with that kind of money - plus/minus a million or so - being the cost of admission to P5 football, or die mad about it. And as far as nailing down the exact dollar value Ferentz provides the university, Barta himself is only approximating +/- a whole bunch of 0s, so the idea that HawkLuver69Lol on HN has it pinned down to the level he's able to work himself into an indignant rage over the cost/benefit calculation puts my bullshit meter on tilt.

As long as I'm on a roll, I also wonder how much experience some of you have with competition. Yeah, I know, "everything is competition", I get it, but I'm talking *direct* competition. Apples to apples stuff. A lot of competition in normal life, while very real, is also pretty abstract. Every FBS program operates under the same scholly limits, workout restrictions, and on field rules. It's a 52 week/year obsessive chase for better. Approaches vary, but it ultimately comes down to a series of 11v11 snaps over a 60 minute game to see who's beat. Losing to a conference foe...you can be disappointed, even surprised, but the "I can't fucking believe what I'm seeing" attitude towards such an L is a major "you problem", sorry. Every team on the schedule this year are FBS level programs. They are all working this system on a 52 week/yr basis trying to make it happen for themselves, just like Iowa is (though a good number of them are doing it with some advantages that we can only dream of). The idea that a few of those contests a year don't go your way under those kinds of conditions - *especially* in a "bogey" kind of sport like football - is some major "yeah, no shit" territory for me.

I compete in an amateur road racing club (as in "motor racing", like Jackie Stewart used to say). Spec class, so tires, engines, tires, suspension, etc are all very tightly controlled. That, paradoxically, just ups the competition level. It's all just for fun - no trophies or prizes, just guys who really want to beat each other for respect and bragging rights - but it's a whole thing: mind, body, car prep, the works. Find weaknesses and stamp them out. Find strengths and press the advantage. Success or failure on a race track is about as objective and obvious as it gets in life. I've beat guys that I didn't think I'd ever be able to catch I've been beaten by guys I should be lapping, but mostly it's in between. You know why? Competition + chaos theory. A bunch of highly motivated people placed into a tightly controlled, competitive environment. Everybody tries like hell and the results are predictable till they're not.

I'm not saying it's FBS college football, but I see connections. Obviously, big time college football has exponentially more pressure, but it also has the added wrinkle of the scarcity of talent (which Iowa feels more than most P5 programs). That would be like if there was a certain kind of extra fast fuel of which there was only 200 gallons/year available and it was every man for himself to procure. That's a whole other layer of competition right there.

Oh, and before the amateur racing thing, I competed at distance running. Again, I'm not talking about the Olympics, but certainly at a level where I was having to work progressively harder for less gain against a bunch of people doing the same.

I don't think you necessarily need to experience something like any of that first hand to be able to have insight into what intense direct competition is really like. You can certainly get it from being just a careful, thoughtful observer for sure. But I also think a lot of you are pampered pussies who really have *no* idea and, as a result, your crybaby posts ooze internet tough guy poser energy that I can smell from a mile off.

We'd be Nebraska (probably worse) if it were up to those types.

 

[IowaPhan]

This may have little to do with ‘destination.’ Of course Iowa is in cold weather, along with the entire Big 10. In cold weather, Wisky has clearly blown through a threshold ceiling of quality and could grow into being blue blood-ish, as Nebby did in earlier years, as did Iowa under Fry; heck, even Minny’s minny-Fleck could emerge. Granted, Iowan culture is not one of racing to exchange coaches at the first hint of a weak record. You also have to blunder something awful, as seen at Iowa State in Rhoads and Prohm.

It’s about a coach’s innate intellect. We’ve seen time and time again that KF doesn’t have a champion’s intellect for greatness – even when the national football community hopes that he does. It’s not a part of this wonderful man’s wheelhouse. He doesn’t have the personal vision or prowess of communication to pass the advanced qualities of hyper-performance and team concentration onto 3-star players.

There’s no greater example of KF’s limitations than the recent Purdue and Wisky games. Iowa had the West-division championship in its sites, but the players came to the games questioning themselves, uninspired, and, yes, afraid. They were afraid ‘to win’ because they only had their own intellects to motivate them, as KF was himself so afraid that he couldn’t coach the team under the potential of such success. Nothing says we should’ve won those games, but everything says we should’ve been competitive, if not for the limitations of the coach. Prior week player prep and overall game strategies were grossly lacking. KF is a decent and talented person, but if Iowa wants the 'next level,' or even to stop being embarrassed under the national spotlight, it needs a new brain.

 

[Fryowa]

It’s about a coach’s innate intellect. We’ve seen time and time again that KF doesn’t have a champion’s intellect for greatness – even when the national football community hopes that he does. It’s not a part of this wonderful man’s wheelhouse.

Lolsies...

In order to critique "intellect for greatness" would you not have to know a little something about that topic? You've literally never met the guy or had so much as a conversation with him (or any football staff), yet you know he doesn't have any "innate intellect?" I'm assuming you've never won a P5 football game from the sidelines, but hey...maybe you're Dabo Swinney posting on your day off. Jesus christ, man, you're the exact person @Luftgekuehlt67 was talking about in his post above.

You should tell us what your credentials are for measuring "innate champion's intellect." I'd genuinely like to hear that and respond to it.

That would be like me saying that an F1 mechanic sucks because a motor blew, when 1) I know nothing about F1 cars whatsoever, and 2) there are a million reasons and engine can blow up.