Iowa Football Parents Asking for Transparency from Big Ten

[okeefe4prez]

Wait, an organization making hundreds of millions of dollars off the backs of "underpaid employees" has you all up in arms? You sound like a socialist.

Nah, the ball players are learning about socialism first hand. It's a good lesson. The schools can't pay them shit because of mandated equality and the surplus from their labor is going to pay for the non-revenue sports and in the cases of public schools, which most P5 programs are, highly compensated government employees.

 

[okeefe4prez]

I've felt for years now prior to this Covid stuff that we we're in a sports bubble of sorts. Not just college but pros too across the 4 major ones. With the TV money getting as insane as it has gotten it felt like something might pop. I thought it'd be baseball first with no salary cap and how they have 32 different ways of going about it and the insane $ that the players make that their business model just wouldn't be able to continue. All I know is it's not nearly as much fun to be a fan now as it was when I was a teenager... (25 yrs ago) . How much of that is nostalgia and how much is the times now I don't know. But it's legit.

There's obviously a nostalgia element to it, but the shakedown of the populace to pay for all the shit the sports leagues has done is just absurd.

You mentioned baseball and that is a good example. First, a bunch of towns have been saddled with debt to build ball parks. Bullshit. Second, you used to be able to get Cubs or Brave games OTA in the right region. Not any longer unless you catch a break and it is the Fox game once a month or whatever. Playoffs used to be OTA. Not now. But no example is better to demonstrate their money whoring better than baseball cards. Back in the day you had Fleer, Score, Topps, Donruss and some others. MLB realized this was a 0 cost way to market the game. Not now, now baseball cards are a "licensing opportunity" and so only Topps makes cards because they ponied up the most Benjamins. It's like fucking $10 a pack now.

At some point, all of these orgs are going to cash whore themselves into irrelevance. I think the biggest problems are going to come when the eventual point arises that the media rights deals go down in value. It will be a situation like the hockey lockout.

 

[Hawkfnntn]

There's obviously a nostalgia element to it, but the shakedown of the populace to pay for all the shit the sports leagues has done is just absurd.

You mentioned baseball and that is a good example. First, a bunch of towns have been saddled with debt to build ball parks. Bullshit. Second, you used to be able to get Cubs or Brave games OTA in the right region. Not any longer unless you catch a break and it is the Fox game once a month or whatever. Playoffs used to be OTA. Not now. But no example is better to demonstrate their money whoring better than baseball cards. Back in the day you had Fleer, Score, Topps, Donruss and some others. MLB realized this was a 0 cost way to market the game. Not now, now baseball cards are a "licensing opportunity" and so only Topps makes cards because they ponied up the most Benjamins. It's like fucking $10 a pack now.

At some point, all of these orgs are going to cash whore themselves into irrelevance. I think the biggest problems are going to come when the eventual point arises that the media rights deals go down in value. It will be a situation like the hockey lockout.

When the money starts getting out of control and as you brought up it affects all the other things too what it does is it takes the fun out of being a fan... When only the rich can enjoy all that being a fan should be it just takes all the fun out of it for the common man. It's just not in the cards for me to be able to travel and go to games and do all the things I really wish I could. I'm not a poor man either. I'm not destitute and struggling to pay my mortgage. But if I were to start doing what I wish I could I sure wouldn't be able to retire in 20 yrs like I'd hope to. That said tomorrow isn't promised so what am I saving anything for anyways... YOLO..

 

[uihawk82]

If the Commissioner and University Presidents think Covid risk is too high to play football games, then why are they allowing tens of thousands of kids to move back into campus dormitories, fraternities, sororities, etc.? Football players, like any college kids, are not going to self-isolate in their room all semester. They are going to be out at house parties, bars, maybe working a part time job at a grocery store or restaurant. Their girlfriend(s) could expose them just as easily as playing football. In other words, they can contract Covid just as easily living the college kid lifestyle as they could catch it playing football.

So why not attempt to have a season, with type protocals in place to test, and if a team and/or campus has an out of control outbreak, then you postpone games or worst case shut it down.

Yes, Yes, Yes but the University is there for learning and believe it or not football and other sports are extra-curricular activities albeit lots of money is involved. Students do not have to go back to in person college but could take a year off or take online classes.

Athletes can take a year off but they I am sure have to redshirt or lose a year of eligibility and so if they have already redshirted they would lose a year of athletics.

There is another reason also in that if teams have some top stars get sick and can't play and they lose games then that to me makes for a lame season. And getting covid is not the same as missing games for an injury which are part of the game so dont go to that argument.

 

[okeefe4prez]

When the money starts getting out of control and as you brought up it affects all the other things too what it does is it takes the fun out of being a fan... When only the rich can enjoy all that being a fan should be it just takes all the fun out of it for the common man. It's just not in the cards for me to be able to travel and go to games and do all the things I really wish I could. I'm not a poor man either. I'm not destitute and struggling to pay my mortgage. But if I were to start doing what I wish I could I sure wouldn't be able to retire in 20 yrs like I'd hope to. That said tomorrow isn't promised so what am I saving anything for anyways... YOLO..

I get the pricing model for in person stuff. If you've got 50k seats and you can sell them all at $25 or 40k at $100, you're better off taking the $100. A lot of these leagues are completely skullfucking their future prospects, though, because the odds of someone taking the whole family at $400 goes down quite a bit. You can see the lack of interest in the youth in the declining student sections across the country. These people have really jacked up the price of cable as well, so you have a shitload of people who don't watch that particular sport paying a metric fuckton for it. That shit is gonna break. When even boomers like my parents are asking me how to get rid of cable, you know shit is about to hit the fan on the subscriber numbers.

 

[uihawk82]

That, and people don't realize that even though we're talking in the hundreds of millions of revenue from athletics programs, it's peanuts to the universities.

Here are the endowments of a few B1G schools...

NW -- $11B
OSU -- $5.25B
PSU -- $4.55B
MN -- $3.9B
IA -- 1.58B

Iowa ranks 11th out of 14 conference schools in terms of bank accounts, and if they truly did lose $100M that would only be a little over 6% of the total university endowment not counting its other assets.

Even the biggest sports programs are a fart in the wind when you compare athletics to tuition, housing, and other income and assets.

Hell iirc I think Grinnell College has a 2-3 Billion endowment.

 

[uihawk82]

These schools' athletic departments will just increase ticket prices by $5 or $10 a game to recoup this lost money. If the hawks can play spring and fall football seasons they will be back in the black and all rosy.

PS The NBA helped back Yale U to develop a rapid result saliva test that has FDA early approval. If they can produce hundreds of millions of tests at what they say will be pretty cheap prices and people can order them then the days of lots of testing will be here.

 

[Hawkfnntn]

I get the pricing model for in person stuff. If you've got 50k seats and you can sell them all at $25 or 40k at $100, you're better off taking the $100. A lot of these leagues are completely skullfucking their future prospects, though, because the odds of someone taking the whole family at $400 goes down quite a bit. You can see the lack of interest in the youth in the declining student sections across the country. These people have really jacked up the price of cable as well, so you have a shitload of people who don't watch that particular sport paying a metric fuckton for it. That shit is gonna break. When even boomers like my parents are asking me how to get rid of cable, you know shit is about to hit the fan on the subscriber numbers.

Yeah younger fans aren't even 'fans' anymore. They are all fair weather and only keep up with watching highlights on social media. Going to games are just an event for them like a concert. They are doing it to themselves so it is what it is... It's already way different then it was 20ish yrs ago i can only see it being even more different as time goes on..

 

[#1DieHardHawk]

When pointing out the hypocrisy of allowing students on-campus but cancelling football, don't discount the fear of litigation aspect.

The presidents and commissioner can hide behind the "we made the decision for the safety of the student-athlete" stance all they want, but you can bet there were plenty of conversations behind closed doors with the respective legal departments on the potential ramifications of a surge of lawsuits.

When random students come down with Covid-19 - and a scattered few will get seriously ill - mom and dad will bring them home with little fanfare and the realization that is was random dumb luck, and move on.

When a few high-profile athletes get sick, it's a whole different ballgame (no pun intended...). Attorneys will be stumbling over themselves to file class-action lawsuits, and you can bet that the universities are well aware of the possibility.

 

[trj]

Yeah, well F 'em. I'm no pantywaist liberal like most of you assclowns and I love football, but when I see that '86ing the football season is going to cause the athletic department a $70 million loss I just can't help but shake my head. It's disgusting how far the pendulum of the "sports entertainment business" model has swung toward "business." When you have a putative "non-profit" organization pushing that sort of money through on football, the balance of the universe just ain't right. I hope that this shit pushes sports back toward fun, rather than business. When you push the content to pay channels and are hitting fans for damned near a grand for a decent season ticket, you are basically selling out the future to maximize profits today. I don't think the guys running these organizations understand that.

Not an conspiracy guy I am 3 beers in so I am basically talking out of my ass.....throwing shit out there. Football has been out of whack with the mission of these universities for years.

Is it possible that B1G presidents voted no just as a starting process to reel in these football programs? Not that they conspired with each other, but all of them could see where this was heading, regardless of the pandemic.

I don’t believe it, but man it would certainly explain what went down last week.

 

[trj]

Yeah younger fans aren't even 'fans' anymore. They are all fair weather and only keep up with watching highlights on social media. Going to games are just an event for them like a concert. They are doing it to themselves so it is what it is... It's already way different then it was 20ish yrs ago i can only see it being even more different as time goes on..

Sports are the last thing we want and/or need to see live. Once that demand is gone then it will be truly over. I will be dead and buried when that happens so it doesn’t really affect me.

 

[RobHowe]

 

[okeefe4prez]

Not an conspiracy guy I am 3 beers in so I am basically talking out of my ass.....throwing shit out there. Football has been out of whack with the mission of these universities for years.

Is it possible that B1G presidents voted no just as a starting process to reel in these football programs? Not that they conspired with each other, but all of them could see where this was heading, regardless of the pandemic.

I don’t believe it, but man it would certainly explain what went down last week.

The brass at a lot of universities tolerate the football programs. Sure, it's good when everything is going well and the team is winning a shitload of games. But if you have some shitbag team like Illinois or Indiana, you don't really give a shit about football and you'd rather not get bothered with mouthbreathers at meet and greets telling you that you need a new coordinator or coach or whatever.

IMHO, there are now two camps. One is the "we are or want to be a great academic school and football takes away from that mission" and the other is "football for LIFE!" Very few schools can do both well and I think most schools have resigned themselves to the fact that they are always going to have a shit football program. Indiana or Iowa State or Oregon State or Vandy isn't a $50 million facilities upgrade away from becoming a power. They will never be a power. They might have two decent recruiting classes and get lucky with a couple of guys and have a killer season, but they are never going to hit even Iowa levels of sustained solid teams, which is still light years behind Alabama or Clemson.

And despite the cash flowing in from media deals, unless a school can fleece the shit out of its fans on season ticket donations, it ain't gonna make much money, if any at all, on football. Throw in the semi-unionization demands and it becomes a clusterfuck of epic proportions. There is certainly an alumni relations element, but I think schools like Iowa probably cannibalize the shit out of general donations in favor of donations to the athletic department. If you have some guy stroking $5k donation checks for 20 years for his seats and for a decent parking spot, when the planned giving person calls a bunch of those guys will say "why the hell should I give Iowa more money, I've already given them $100k?" And they're right.

 

[Fryowa]

Yeah younger fans aren't even 'fans' anymore. They are all fair weather and only keep up with watching highlights on social media. Going to games are just an event for them like a concert. They are doing it to themselves so it is what it is... It's already way different then it was 20ish yrs ago i can only see it being even more different as time goes on..

Part of that is how prices and the total cost has gone up so much in the last 25 years.

I’ll admit that I’ve become fair weather, if my kid and I want to go to a football game it’s a big expense (for me) and I can’t justify going more than once or twice a year. A pair of decent tickets is around $150-175 (if you’re going to go once a year you have to make the seats worth it), $65 in gas, $100 for a motel, and there’s always about $150 in expenses/food/etc

 

[Fryowa]

That’s a class action suit if I’ve ever seen one. Even aside from the fraudulent timing, when parents revolt over the deadline they’ll give in to the pressure and refund. About as bad a look as the Big Ten releasing a schedule and cancelling a couple days later.

 

[Hawkfnntn]

Part of that is how prices and the total cost has gone up so much in the last 25 years.

I’ll admit that I’ve become fair weather, if my kid and I want to go to a football game it’s a big expense (for me) and I can’t justify going more than once or twice a year. A pair of decent tickets is around $150-175 (if you’re going to go once a year you have to make the seats worth it), $65 in gas, $100 for a motel, and there’s always about $150 in expenses/food/etc

No doubt and my definition of 'fair weather' isn't so much on if one attends games so much as just really keeps up with their 'team(s)' But yeah if money was no object for me 99% of my time would be traveling around going to games and visiting all the sports cities in our country. (which I've barely scratched the surface of having been able to do) I'd love to go watch Iowa play in every BIG stadium and basketball arena. That's pretty much a bucket lister for me but I've only seen them play in Kinnick like 15 times CHA a bunch and I did go to KC back in 99 or 00 to watch em play K State in Arrowhead. But that's been about it for me. Oh and I've seen Iowa play at Drake and UNI those count too I suppose.

 

[Fryowa]

No doubt and my definition of 'fair weather' isn't so much on if one attends games so much as just really keeps up with their 'team(s)' But yeah if money was no object for me 99% of my time would be traveling around going to games and visiting all the sports cities in our country. (which I've barely scratched the surface of having been able to do) I'd love to go watch Iowa play in every BIG stadium and basketball arena. That's pretty much a bucket lister for me but I've only seen them play in Kinnick like 15 times CHA a bunch and I did go to KC back in 99 or 00 to watch em play K State in Arrowhead. But that's been about it for me. Oh and I've seen Iowa play at Drake and UNI those count too I suppose.

I’d put Penn State towards the top of your list. That place is almost comical how big it is. It’s second to Michigan by just a few seats as far as capacity, but PSU feels twice as big and it’s definitely way, way louder...easily the loudest stadium I’ve ever been to. Very impressive.

Regarding going to every B1G stadium, here’s a twist for you...

My best friend and I have had the same goal for a while, but we’ve actually started to change our way of thinking on it. We’re thinking now that if we ever start making a concerted effort, we’ll go to non Iowa games. Sounds dumb, but the B1G has enough history that it’s be cool to go and focus on the experience rather than being stressed out about our team winning or losing. Penn State was a great experience, but the Hawks got killed. It would have been nice to go to that game to take everything in without a dog in the fight. We’ve both seen the Hawks play a million times so it would also be a chance to see more teams.

I have Michigan State, Purdue, Maryland, Rutgers, Indiana, Ohio State, and Minnesota left. I was at the Metrodome, but not their new stadium

 

[okeefe4prez]

I’d put Penn State towards the top of your list. That place is almost comical how big it is. It’s second to Michigan by just a few seats as far as capacity, but PSU feels twice as big and it’s definitely way, way louder...easily the loudest stadium I’ve ever been to. Very impressive.

Regarding going to every B1G stadium, here’s a twist for you...

My best friend and I have had the same goal for a while, but we’ve actually started to change our way of thinking on it. We’re thinking now that if we ever start making a concerted effort, we’ll go to non Iowa games. Sounds dumb, but the B1G has enough history that it’s be cool to go and focus on the experience rather than being stressed out about our team winning or losing. Penn State was a great experience, but the Hawks got killed. It would have been nice to go to that game to take everything in without a dog in the fight. We’ve both seen the Hawks play a million times so it would also be a chance to see more teams.

I have Michigan State, Purdue, Maryland, Rutgers, Indiana, Ohio State, and Minnesota left. I was at the Metrodome, but not their new stadium

There's no reason to go to Purdue or Indiana. Those places suck. I've never been to Rutgers or Maryland because I don't view them as Big Ten teams and I will never go.

My college football goal is to go to all of the legendary venues in the SEC (e.g., not shit places like Kentucky, Mississippi State or Mizzou). Was going to go to Tennessee last year for the SC game but the weather sucked and I want to see games on nice days, not when a monsoon is in the forecast. I doubt I'll ever drive clear to LSU, though. That is a hike. So is Florida, but if I can dovetail that into some other trip, maybe I'll do it. I was planning to try to go to Tennessee or Georgia this year, but that obviously ain't in the cards.

 

[Hawkfnntn]

There's no reason to go to Purdue or Indiana. Those places suck. I've never been to Rutgers or Maryland because I don't view them as Big Ten teams and I will never go.

My college football goal is to go to all of the legendary venues in the SEC (e.g., not shit places like Kentucky, Mississippi State or Mizzou). Was going to go to Tennessee last year for the SC game but the weather sucked and I want to see games on nice days, not when a monsoon is in the forecast. I doubt I'll ever drive clear to LSU, though. That is a hike. So is Florida, but if I can dovetail that into some other trip, maybe I'll do it. I was planning to try to go to Tennessee or Georgia this year, but that obviously ain't in the cards.

I only live a couple hours from Ole Miss, Memphis and Nashville. Never been to any games though. Knoxville is a 5 hour hike i think. LSU would be a good time from what I hear they tailgate it up right down there. The SEC pretty much knows what they are doing in that department.

 

[okeefe4prez]

I only live a couple hours from Ole Miss, Memphis and Nashville. Never been to any games though. Knoxville is a 5 hour hike i think. LSU would be a good time from what I hear they tailgate it up right down there. The SEC pretty much knows what they are doing in that department.

Damn, if I don't hit traffic in Asheville, Knoxville is a hair over 2.5 hours from me. The traffic in Asheville is fucking insane. It cuts through the mountains and the side streets have no run off room so it just backs up for miles. The freeway is 2 lanes because there's just not enough room to expand it in every place it needs widened. Last Friday there was gridlock from 5 miles south of Hendersonville until you got to the I-40 interchange. It was seriously like Chicago to Aurora level of gridlock. The South is growing way too fast. I want a moratorium on Yankees moving down here.