Iowa Football Investigation Discussion

[proudhawkfan21]

I think we're going to be on opposite sides of the fence on this one because I refuse to believe that because a player has long hair by choice they are not disciplined. Again the comparison between military and athletics, but I won't get in to the argument of comparing a profession where you put your life on the line and "kill or be killed" ideology vs. that of a sport.

I'm sure that the coaches are being straight forward saying we'll have "a helmet and haircut ready for you when you get to campus" about these disciplinarian expectations. I'm guessing that when these policies are questioned by the recruit they're pointed out players who had the same expectations placed on them such as Robert Gallery, CJ Bethard, Mitch King, the Paulsen twins, and a ton of others that have come through the program. I guess I just see it as (A) an absolutely ridiculous mentality to even relate discipline and hair preference and (B) an incredible double standard when seeing hair coming out the bottom of a helmet or onto someones shoulders is something that can be picked out on the sidelines on a weekly basis.

And while these athletes are "being paid to be here" lets not forget that those very same athletes are making millions for the University of Iowa.

IIRC all of those players had their hair cut when they were playing. CJB started playing more when he cut it. Rules are rules. No, you won't be killed on a football field, but it is physical violence and you CAN be permanently mamed and yes, some folks have died.

 

[trj]

Wow. Interesting find! The lines are purposefully being blurred by many. Perhaps this is the beginning of the great fall of America (Rome). Politics excused for a moment, label me as you will, I'm American first. I don't care who is in the White House if they put America first. Yes, I know, not possible. But, you can CLEARLY see the regression of America in the past 3 + years cuturally, socially and from a worldwide perspective. Leadership is more important now than ever. Good things have come from this regression including but not limited to a great push for equality across race, gender and any other identifying characteristics that have been long persecuted. But, effective leadership is needed immediately! From this great societal reckoning, it will be laws, rules and standard accepted traditions that push America forward. Improve areas that need to be improved, yes, the plight on minorities is greatly important. But now is not the time to abandon centuries old customs or traditions that help keep order in society. Majority rule with minority rights recognized.

Yes, this country is in desperate need of leadership, but I do not think it is coming in November regardless of who wins, it will likely be a shit show....hope I am wrong.

IIRC all of those players had their hair cut when they were playing. CJB started playing more when he cut it. Rules are rules. No, you won't be killed on a football field, but it is physical violence and you CAN be permanently mamed and yes, some folks have died.

CJB was going to get playing time and push Rudock no matter the hair length.

 

[HuckFinn]

“Who they are may be all they have.” Sadly, this is likely true for many young black males.

 

[#1DieHardHawk]

Very well stated sir. Can I use "see #1diehardhawk response " as my go to quick reply? Great analysis and I love the insight.

Thank you, but keep in mind that by pointing out the dilemma, I'm in no way in favor of attempts to deflect from, or diminish, the concerns on the part of the players. Perception or not, when that many players step forward to voice a concern, a serious problem exists.

I am however encouraged by the initial steps being taken, and remain hopeful that at the end of the day, this all turns out to be a positive growth experience for the program.

 

[haydensly]

I threw out the Banks example of the racial bias. But the examples you have thrown out there are just as pertinent to the discussion. Stanzi and CJB did not fit into the Iowa culture. They were flashy and spoke their minds. IMO they were better than the QBs starting ahead of them.

Not racial bias there but a culture of not letting young men be themselves. Which i believe is a bigger factor in the black culture. Who they are may be all they have. Their identity is very important. That is why disrespect is such a powerful word in their culture.

I never said anything about gym rats or cerebral. I simply stated that there were less talented players starting over more talented players. And you gave 2 prime examples.

So you agree that at Iowa less talented players start over more talented. And I said this may have caused those black players to transfer, like CJB almost did until his Dad stepped in.

I think your post is spot on. with the exception of me calling the staff racist. I have never said that. I said there were racist statements.

Stanzi and CJB were both behind more senior players at the position. They both overtook those players to gain the starting nod. I think it's a fair bet that it took some time for them to catch up and advance, mentally and physically, to be able to be named the starter. I don't think in either example it had to do with fitting into the culture. JMO.

 

[peerok]

Stanzi and CJB are proof that there is more to being a good football player than talent. Rudock and Christensen were actually higher rated and more heavily recruited out of high school than Stanzi or CJB. They just didn't have the "it" factor which is why they eventually lost their starting spot.

 

[BGOLD]

I think we're going to be on opposite sides of the fence on this one because I refuse to believe that because a player has long hair by choice they are not disciplined. Again the comparison between military and athletics, but I won't get in to the argument of comparing a profession where you put your life on the line and "kill or be killed" ideology vs. that of a sport.

I'm sure that the coaches are being straight forward saying we'll have "a helmet and haircut ready for you when you get to campus" about these disciplinarian expectations. I'm guessing that when these policies are questioned by the recruit they're pointed out players who had the same expectations placed on them such as Robert Gallery, CJ Bethard, Mitch King, the Paulsen twins, and a ton of others that have come through the program. I guess I just see it as (A) an absolutely ridiculous mentality to even relate discipline and hair preference and (B) an incredible double standard when seeing hair coming out the bottom of a helmet or onto someones shoulders is something that can be picked out on the sidelines on a weekly basis.

And while these athletes are "being paid to be here" lets not forget that those very same athletes are making millions for the University of Iowa.

I know this isn’t the point you’re driving home in your post, but unless you’re a Zion Williams type, no athlete is making a University millions.

Fans cheer for laundry, which is to say anyone in the Iowa uniform. That won’t change regardless of who’s wearing them.

 

[proudhawkfan21]

Yes, this country is in desperate need of leadership, but I do not think it is coming in November regardless of who wins, it will likely be a shit show....hope I am wrong.




CJB was going to get playing time and push Rudock no matter the hair length.

I agree on everything you said but there may have been discussions/negotiations regarding the hair and CJB.

 

[proudhawkfan21]

Thank you, but keep in mind that by pointing out the dilemma, I'm in no way in favor of attempts to deflect from, or diminish, the concerns on the part of the players. Perception or not, when that many players step forward to voice a concern, a serious problem exists.

I am however encouraged by the initial steps being taken, and remain hopeful that at the end of the day, this all turns out to be a positive growth experience for the program.

Yes. I wasn't in any way suggesting that you share the exact same beliefs. However, I do agree on these particular points. The Hawkeye football program has to address and improve upon an atmosphere that doesn't feel inclusive to ALL athletes and that initial steps are headed in the right direction. This won't be something that is solved over night. The hemorrhaging may have been stopped with Doyle's ouster, but much is yet to be done.

 

[okeefe4prez]

I know this isn’t the point you’re driving home in your post, but unless you’re a Zion Williams type, no athlete is making a University millions.

Fans cheer for laundry, which is to say anyone in the Iowa uniform. That won’t change regardless of who’s wearing them.

Even a guy like Zion isn't making Duke any serious coin. They'll sell out every game no matter what. Maybe they sold a few more jerseys than they would have otherwise. Now had Zion stayed home and gone to Clemson, yeah, he would have made them money because they would have packed every game to the rafters, but Duke, nah.

The Iowa program isn't valuable because of Spencer Petras or Tyler Goodson. There is 100 years of goodwill built up in Iowa sports. The value is in what our grandparents and parents instilled in us and the fandom we established going to school there. I've said it before, but you could take every single three though five star out of college football and so long as a competitive balance remained, it wouldn't lose a single fan. People like the tradition, pageantry, experience, etc.

 

[kicker22]

I know this isn’t the point you’re driving home in your post, but unless you’re a Zion Williams type, no athlete is making a University millions.

Fans cheer for laundry, which is to say anyone in the Iowa uniform. That won’t change regardless of who’s wearing them.

Your absolutely right, that a single athlete isn't making the university money, but a collection of athletes are what is putting butts in the stands. Just my opinion, but I think it goes beyond fans cheering for "the laundry". I'm not saying fans don't support the school, but if that were the driving factor wouldn't attendance be up in non-revenue sports or wouldn't it have held steady during the Lickleiter years?

Attendance seems to have been trending downward across the country recently. Regardless of whether its the cost of time and money, other priorities, lack of interest, etc... I agree that there are those that'll go because they want to support Iowa, but they want to be entertained. IMO its the difference between attendance at an 8:00 weeknight non-conference basketball game and a conference game in that same time slot, if all things are equal, people want to see the better product.