Iowa Football Investigation Discussion

Is he white?
Does race matter? Ill tell you that he won't be 1st or 2nd string ANY time soon. And yet, coach knows his dad like he saw him yesterday, asks about the family, says positive things about his boy, called him up to tell my friend congratulations on his grades before my friend even knew and my friend can't emphasize enough that he is exactly who you see and more/better. He's not going to play in front of a more talented player, white or black, any time soon. Its not how KF is motivated. This man gave back millions to a hospital that helps kids. He sounds like a real jerk.
 
Agree 100%, Rob has an axe to grind with KF. Rob keeps saying he gets no satisfaction from this but he can't wait to scoop something. Good for you. I have been on HN for many many years and I am done. Going to the other site to get the hell away from him. Good luck, enjoy yourself. I hope Rob ends up reporting on Regina softball. Puke

This site has a limited shelf life. The only thing driving traffic are Rob’s “special reports” and those can only continue so much longer. Advertisement is going to be sparse.
 
Does race matter? Ill tell you that he won't be 1st or 2nd string ANY time soon. And yet, coach knows his dad like he saw him yesterday, asks about the family, says positive things about his boy, called him up to tell my friend congratulations on his grades before my friend even knew and my friend can't emphasize enough that he is exactly who you see and more/better. He's not going to play in front of a more talented player, white or black, any time soon. Its not how KF is motivated. This man gave back millions to a hospital that helps kids. He sounds like a real jerk.
What does donating money have to do with anything? A lot of people donate money to various causes and are still shitty human beings.
 
Agree 100%, Rob has an axe to grind with KF. Rob keeps saying he gets no satisfaction from this but he can't wait to scoop something. Good for you. I have been on HN for many many years and I am done. Going to the other site to get the hell away from him. Good luck, enjoy yourself. I hope Rob ends up reporting on Regina softball. Puke
I don't have any issue with Rob. He can do and or say anything he likes. If he respects other people's abilities to do the same, no issues here. My frustration is that this should be, ALWAYS HAS BEEN, a fan site, message board. Ive been around for a few years. I wish all Hawkeye fans were like 1950's rah rah go hawks pom poms and glitter everything is awesome hawk fans. But...I can be critical, but reason is what leaves a person when passion becomes misguided. I enjoy the insights of fellow hawk fans, i just have to remind myself that everyone's psyche is unique to that individual. I like to celebrate the hawks. No agenda. I'll support the next coach because he or she leads my hawks! If they are a success, I'm a success (metaphorically speaking lol)
 
Does race matter? Ill tell you that he won't be 1st or 2nd string ANY time soon. And yet, coach knows his dad like he saw him yesterday, asks about the family, says positive things about his boy, called him up to tell my friend congratulations on his grades before my friend even knew and my friend can't emphasize enough that he is exactly who you see and more/better. He's not going to play in front of a more talented player, white or black, any time soon. Its not how KF is motivated. This man gave back millions to a hospital that helps kids. He sounds like a real jerk.

My daughter has been in the room in KFs name. Nice to do, he also got a health tax deduction which lowered his taxes considerably.

You haven't been reading about the program.
 
There it is....right on schedule. I'm sorry for your experiences. I apologize on behalf of any and every decent human being who would cringe to know that such atrocities happen. But, you can continue to be a victim, blame everything on earth on your feelings of inadequacy and helplessness or you can sack up and pick yourself up off the ground and quit crying about it all the time. Im proud of you for your passion, but introducing yourself with a "look what happened to me" business card is pathetic. Save it for church. Ill talk about it at church with you if you'd like. It defines you. I knew it was coming. You walked right into it. It invalidates anything you say when you blame others or compare them to the bullies in your life. You think that I'm insensitive. Brother I would cry with you if you needed me to. But...life doesn't work that way. Honestly.

"Life is mean and hard and it will beat you down and bury you if you let it. Its not how hard you can get hit, it's how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward. How much you can take and keep moving forward." - R Balboa

Sorry it doesn't fit your narrative. Btw, what is a victim? Of course I knew it was coming. You still are an enabler and not wanting to really change things. As far as your not liking bringing up experiences, why do you want to be known as an uncaring dick?
 
Sorry it doesn't fit your narrative. Btw, what is a victim? Of course I knew it was coming. You still are an enabler and not wanting to really change things. As far as your not liking bringing up experiences, why do you want to be known as an uncaring dick?
You could have read ANYTHING I wrote but you chose to respond to the part that doesn't approve of your complacency in life. You and I have had the victim conversation. I have PLENTY of shitty as part of my existence...but....it doesnt help me if I wallow in it. It fuels me if I so choose. You choose to wallow it seems.
 
Your statement is as responsible as your sensationalist approach to an IOWA FAN SITE. This isnt the New York Times or Esquire. Back to your question. White, Black, Yellow, Green, Blue...asking for 1) Hair style/length, 2) Dress Code, 3) Uniform, 4) covering Tattoos, 5) several other items are not illegal or racially biased is acceptable for an educational institution or business.. Not getting to wear a wife-beater or hoodie is not a violation of civil rights or a right guaranteed by the constitution. Most people's work places, as Iowa is an AT WILL employer state, can demand any of these or fire non-compliant employees. None of these things are racially biased items.

Using racial slurs, allowing variations to the codes for different races.....both are items where a program can/should be held accountable. Not getting to "be you" is a decision each individual must make as it pertains to being a member of a football program or place of busoness. Its America. Any athlete could choose a program that fits their motivation better. To your point, IF any athlete feels that the program is forcing them to adapt to a uniform code that they don't appreciate, if they MUST wear something outside of the expected uniform, find a new place to play/work. The very same is true for anyone here. Go into your bank job tomorrow wearing shorts...see what happens. D

DO NOT blur the lines. I feel Doyle crossed the line and got what he deserved. KF has and is facing criticism for not knowing exactly how YOU would create culture as is most of American business and industry. Its easy to sit back in the recliner and say i would do this, this and that better.. YOU struggle with it in this limited environment. Do you not at times? It's hypocritical to demand that some can wave a magic wand and solve or have answers for every thing that comes up when you know having all people agree with policy is impossible. They addressed the issues. Doing nothing would have been a problem. Doing what you think they should do is a difference in opinion.

The University of Iowa is unique. WE ARENT SUPPOSED TO BE HERE. Come on, our population/talent pool is the size of one city in a blue blood school's state. We arent a southern (warm) school or a coastal school. There are no culturally exciting metropolitan areas here. So the Iowa way is to get kids who are willing to be trained hard for bigger things in life. The staff is known for developing kids so we get kids that want to get to the next level knowing the staff is very good at making pros. Will we be as effective with less discipline? Again, don't mistake discipline to mean racism. Making kids follow tough rules and act in a certain way is an Iowa advantage. Look at any coach talk about Iowa. "You are in for a war." "Their kids are extremely well-coached and disciplined." "You always know when you played Iowa because the next week in practice you hurt."

No, I don't expect a black student athlete to "lower" himself or to conform to white culture. A dress code is not white culture. Hair length is not white culture. Wearing a required uniform (tshirt/shorts) is not white culture. It is called being disciplined. Write a letter to the military asking them to abandon all disciplinary "rule adherance" techniques and let me know what they tell you. You have an agenda. You want to be a hero. You will reply and hide behind doing the right thing. Not up in here. Not at fanning flames to a fire on a very decent gentleman. Let the process work itself out. He who has no sin, cast the first stone.

@RobHowe We’re all waiting ...
 
I think there are 2 different issues being discussed here. One is the culture of trying to grow boys into men through examples of professionalism. The other is the abuse of players to demean them into a culture that is based on the white culture.

Yes, the coaches should establish rules and expectations and discipline. There is absolutely nothing wrong with this and should happen or the program is a mess, and the players run amok. Also, these things are what KF does promote. These things should be done in a positive manner. There is no way a kid who has never had these strict expectations is going to conform to them by being brow beaten and made fun of. No way.
The mistreatment that these players are expressing occur when they do not live up to the expectations of the program. And the abusive and demeaning comments are not going to help all of these players. In fact, 50+ have said that they felt abused or mistreated or made fun of or felt they were being diminished.

How is that acceptable? This is not 1960 or 1970 or 1980 or 1990. This generation of kids, born in the 2000s is a new breed. They are more sensitive and aware of what is being said to them and how it is being said. When an old school coaching staff continues to treat them in an old school manner, these problems arise.

The players have evolved, this coaching staff has not. It has nothing to do with rules and expectations and discipline. It has to do with the manner in which the player is treated and disciplined when they do not conform to these things. Doyle and BF and SW are problems in the program.

After the report from the investigation is released, I hope, at minimum, BF and SW and any other coach learns to change their behavior and approach these young men in a manner that is positive and uplifting. You can absolutely teach these young men about professionalism and appearance and anything else that will help them becaome better men in a way that treats them as young men and not objects.
 
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We've known for years that Kirk starts seniors over underclassmen unless necessity dictates otherwise. That is just who he is. He is a system guy. Hell, Shonn Greene found the dog house for a fumble. Kirk loves ball security. He also loves knowledge on the o-line and defense. If you're a little bit better than a guy two years older but you miss a read and get the QB's head ripped off, that is a problem. If you're a DB and try to jump a route when it was a coverage where you didn't have help over the top, it's a problem. These Iowa teams are coached incredibly well. You'll see the other team line up in an illegal formation and the D will be playing 11 on 10 because these guys are so well coached they know not to cover the illegal guy. It takes time to learn that style of football and just because you're a better athlete doesn't necessarily translate into you immediately being the starter at Iowa. I think this is hard for some kids to grasp.

Unfortunately, our society has reached a point where people have to juxtapose a narrative over something like this and it has been used so much, it is hard to tell whether it is true or false.

It would be nice if our gracious site host went player by player on transfers out and gave us depth chart ahead of them, where they ended up, how they did there and other circumstances surrounding transfer (e.g., tidbits around guys like Coker or Cleveland). I think looking at raw numbers doesn't tell the whole story.

Our gracious host is as biased as it gets, lately. Listen to/read Felicia Goodson. Her comments are out there in public. But our gracious host titled one article saying "serious racial bias in Iowa Football". You'd be hard-pressed to find a rational parent or player that would agree with that, contextually.
 
Very true. Iowa football plays a system that is based almost on perfection. And I get the athlete vs. experience argument. IMO though it breaks down when much more talented players sit on the bench and rarely see the field. Or a white average QB starts over a heisman quality black QB. Or that walk on white FS gets ran by because he wasnt athletic enough to catch or move parallel to stop the fast guy. And a really athletic talented FS sits and watches and may have made a coverage mistake but doesnt get ran by.

We have seen this time and time again. Its the whole "That guy must be a great practice player" thing that follows Iowa. And that goes to the feelings of mistreatment by many of the black players I imagine.

Oh yeah, great post. The staff's impeccable decision making with quarterbacks has left us with no logical conclusion other than they are racist. The guys who started Jake Christensen over Rick Stanzi and Jake Rudock over CJB have demonstrated absolutely perfect judgment in selecting QBs.

I do love the notion that you closet racists have that the black player on the bench must be better than the white player. "Derp, if he's black, he must be a great athlete." You guys probably go around throwing around words like "cerebral" and "gym rat" to describe white players.
 
We've known for years that Kirk starts seniors over underclassmen unless necessity dictates otherwise. That is just who he is. He is a system guy. Hell, Shonn Greene found the dog house for a fumble. Kirk loves ball security. He also loves knowledge on the o-line and defense. If you're a little bit better than a guy two years older but you miss a read and get the QB's head ripped off, that is a problem. If you're a DB and try to jump a route when it was a coverage where you didn't have help over the top, it's a problem. These Iowa teams are coached incredibly well. You'll see the other team line up in an illegal formation and the D will be playing 11 on 10 because these guys are so well coached they know not to cover the illegal guy. It takes time to learn that style of football and just because you're a better athlete doesn't necessarily translate into you immediately being the starter at Iowa. I think this is hard for some kids to grasp.

Unfortunately, our society has reached a point where people have to juxtapose a narrative over something like this and it has been used so much, it is hard to tell whether it is true or false.

It would be nice if our gracious site host went player by player on transfers out and gave us depth chart ahead of them, where they ended up, how they did there and other circumstances surrounding transfer (e.g., tidbits around guys like Coker or Cleveland). I think looking at raw numbers doesn't tell the whole story.

The last 5 years or so KF was playing more underclassmen and giving guys with more “upside” playing time . Partly out of necessity and partly because he was SLOWLY starting to adapt and evolve to where the sport is at.
 
The last 5 years or so KF was playing more underclassmen and giving guys with more “upside” playing time . Partly out of necessity and partly because he was SLOWLY starting to adapt and evolve to where the sport is at.

I think he reached the realization that he's only going to get the good players for 3 years now, which really hurts a program like Iowa that relies heavily on development.
 
Your statement is as responsible as your sensationalist approach to an IOWA FAN SITE. This isnt the New York Times or Esquire. Back to your question. White, Black, Yellow, Green, Blue...asking for 1) Hair style/length, 2) Dress Code, 3) Uniform, 4) covering Tattoos, 5) several other items are not illegal or racially biased is acceptable for an educational institution or business.. Not getting to wear a wife-beater or hoodie is not a violation of civil rights or a right guaranteed by the constitution. Most people's work places, as Iowa is an AT WILL employer state, can demand any of these or fire non-compliant employees. None of these things are racially biased items.

I'm not sure what being a fan site has to do with reporting on this story. When I started in newspapers some 30 years ago, there were no fan sites. Should only newspapers and TV stations report on this story? Again, I'm not following that logic.

Trying to compare working in a law firm or ad agency to college football is disingenuous. These guys are not employees. And the fact that they said in the report that they were more comfortable being Black on campus and outside the football building is telling. Football is part of their educational experience in college. Their professors aren't telling them to cover up their tats, not wear hoodies or earrings in their lectures or classes.


Using racial slurs, allowing variations to the codes for different races.....both are items where a program can/should be held accountable. Not getting to "be you" is a decision each individual must make as it pertains to being a member of a football program or place of busoness. Its America. Any athlete could choose a program that fits their motivation better. To your point, IF any athlete feels that the program is forcing them to adapt to a uniform code that they don't appreciate, if they MUST wear something outside of the expected uniform, find a new place to play/work. The very same is true for anyone here. Go into your bank job tomorrow wearing shorts...see what happens. D

Again, this is not a law firm or bank. Flawed analogy. And, during recruiting, the report says the players did not get a full picture of the culture at Iowa. They would not have come to Iowa had that been the case. So, are the coaches being transparent in recruiting?

DO NOT blur the lines. I feel Doyle crossed the line and got what he deserved. KF has and is facing criticism for not knowing exactly how YOU would create culture as is most of American business and industry. Its easy to sit back in the recliner and say i would do this, this and that better.. YOU struggle with it in this limited environment. Do you not at times? It's hypocritical to demand that some can wave a magic wand and solve or have answers for every thing that comes up when you know having all people agree with policy is impossible. They addressed the issues. Doing nothing would have been a problem. Doing what you think they should do is a difference in opinion.

I have not once said that KF should be fired. I believe that should be up to his current and former players.

I have reported the story. And that means passing along information like I did on Monday with a report the UI didn't release publicly. It paints the picture and gives a timeline of what led to the current changes and the external investigation.

Ivory Kelly-Martin said on June 12 that he still felt like he was walking on egg shells and looking over his shoulder in the football building right up until he returned to campus this summer. That was after the DTR, Daniels meeting with Barta and KF not meeting with the team about these topics after August of last year. IKM isn't talking about a wardrobe. He's talking about how he felt and he said he was "speaking for a lot of guys."


The University of Iowa is unique. WE ARENT SUPPOSED TO BE HERE. Come on, our population/talent pool is the size of one city in a blue blood school's state. We arent a southern (warm) school or a coastal school. There are no culturally exciting metropolitan areas here. So the Iowa way is to get kids who are willing to be trained hard for bigger things in life. The staff is known for developing kids so we get kids that want to get to the next level knowing the staff is very good at making pros. Will we be as effective with less discipline? Again, don't mistake discipline to mean racism. Making kids follow tough rules and act in a certain way is an Iowa advantage. Look at any coach talk about Iowa. "You are in for a war." "Their kids are extremely well-coached and disciplined." "You always know when you played Iowa because the next week in practice you hurt."

Demanding not demeaning. There are a lot of positives in the Iowa program. James Daniels said he wouldn't be in the NFL without Doyle and BF. But the Black players are saying the means to the discipline do not justify the ends. Take what's good about Iowa football and make it an inclusive environment is what they are asking for.

No, I don't expect a black student athlete to "lower" himself or to conform to white culture. A dress code is not white culture. Hair length is not white culture. Wearing a required uniform (tshirt/shorts) is not white culture. It is called being disciplined. Write a letter to the military asking them to abandon all disciplinary "rule adherance" techniques and let me know what they tell you. You have an agenda. You want to be a hero. You will reply and hide behind doing the right thing. Not up in here. Not at fanning flames to a fire on a very decent gentleman. Let the process work itself out. He who has no sin, cast the first stone.

Again, this is not the military or a law firm or a bank. You're not expecting a Black student-athlete to "lower" himself. What does that even mean? Whether you realize it or not, many of your comments in here are saying you want them to conform to white culture and others are liking your posts. If Iowa Football agrees with you, just put that all out there in recruiting.


This isn't just about wardrobe changes.

And if you need a reminder of the wide array of comments and stories, here it is LINK
 
Poor Black Grades.+ Poor graduation + extra drug testing + extra meetings + ignoring reports (note I left out racist comments) = Bullshit. If you don't see that you are an enabler.

I find nothing to get exited about in the poor grades. Graduation rate for football and basketball players is pretty much irrelevant these days, if you stick to 6 year in school graduation rates. You can't even get a reliable ballpark estimate on graduation rates that way anymore.
 

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