Iowa Football Investigation Discussion

My best friend has a boy on the team. KF is genuine. Considerate. Welcoming. He stands for everything you see on paper. Im not saying he hasn't made mistakes. Leadership is difficult. The POTUS...i mean....he's still in the office. I won't get political but PUH-LEASE! So, there is at least 50% of America, 49% anyway that hold his view of America in high regard. Scary! But, KF is not Trump. The good has far outweighed the bad. He deserves opportunity to fix issues.

And I think he had that opportunity when the 2018 report came out. It sounds like he made some half-hearted attempts. to do this, but not enough. Why did he hang onto Doyle? Why did players get abused by coaches and that continued?

I think KF sees that he did not do enough initially, and that may be the cause of his demise. I believe had he had done then what he is doing now, we would be in a lot different place than we are now.

I, do not disagree about KF as a man. Never have. Never liked his bland football brand, but never questioned his character. But now I am questioning some of his choices, and those choices may bring about his downfall.
 
I think where we differ is on what is and what isnt acceptable in todays climate. This is not bear bryant and Texas A&M. This is 2020 and it is a whole different world as you know.
I get the whole making better men to succeed in life. But there is a culture that is different than the culture at Iowa. And that culture should not be "beaten" (for a lack of a better word) out of these young men. Should it be tempered? Should a level of professionalism be taught? Absolutely, but in a positive manner.

The days of abusing players into your culture are over. And Im afraid some of these players suffered more than we will ever know and it probably made for a worse society for us all. And Im not talking just Iowa football. I think this is a societal issue. Thus the distrust of white people by black people.
There is some truth to what you say. Also, Free expensive 4 yr degree, the best hands on millionaire training in the world, no sentence forcing them to go to Iowa. Transfer out. Say this isnt the place for me. Most recruits will find a good home. No racism should be allowed, but i differ on the opinion of "individual expression." Sign up somewhere else. See the GODDAMN MILITARY if you think its bad. Its there. This is competitive big money college football. Its wrong to allow racism..i just disagree with what can be legislated vs what is violating rights. Doyle..gone..agreed. Dress code, code of conduct, limitations to social media, personal heigene...hey, don't sign up then....make the program change by choosing other offers...we will catch up to the times or the times will dictate that we dont need to...in regard to "individual expression."
 
And I think he had that opportunity when the 2018 report came out. It sounds like he made some half-hearted attempts. to do this, but not enough. Why did he hang onto Doyle? Why did players get abused by coaches and that continued?

I think KF sees that he did not do enough initially, and that may be the cause of his demise. I believe had he had done then what he is doing now, we would be in a lot different place than we are now.

I, do not disagree about KF as a man. Never have. Never liked his bland football brand, but never questioned his character. But now I am questioning some of his choices, and those choices may bring about his downfall.
I say it won't.
 
We've known for years that Kirk starts seniors over underclassmen unless necessity dictates otherwise. That is just who he is. He is a system guy. Hell, Shonn Greene found the dog house for a fumble. Kirk loves ball security. He also loves knowledge on the o-line and defense. If you're a little bit better than a guy two years older but you miss a read and get the QB's head ripped off, that is a problem. If you're a DB and try to jump a route when it was a coverage where you didn't have help over the top, it's a problem. These Iowa teams are coached incredibly well. You'll see the other team line up in an illegal formation and the D will be playing 11 on 10 because these guys are so well coached they know not to cover the illegal guy. It takes time to learn that style of football and just because you're a better athlete doesn't necessarily translate into you immediately being the starter at Iowa. I think this is hard for some kids to grasp.

Unfortunately, our society has reached a point where people have to juxtapose a narrative over something like this and it has been used so much, it is hard to tell whether it is true or false.

It would be nice if our gracious site host went player by player on transfers out and gave us depth chart ahead of them, where they ended up, how they did there and other circumstances surrounding transfer (e.g., tidbits around guys like Coker or Cleveland). I think looking at raw numbers doesn't tell the whole story.

Very true. Iowa football plays a system that is based almost on perfection. And I get the athlete vs. experience argument. IMO though it breaks down when much more talented players sit on the bench and rarely see the field. Or a white average QB starts over a heisman quality black QB. Or that walk on white FS gets ran by because he wasnt athletic enough to catch or move parallel to stop the fast guy. And a really athletic talented FS sits and watches and may have made a coverage mistake but doesnt get ran by.

We have seen this time and time again. Its the whole "That guy must be a great practice player" thing that follows Iowa. And that goes to the feelings of mistreatment by many of the black players I imagine.
 
I don’t think we are in any position to decide white players with less talent than black players are on the field. We simply do not know that is the case. OK. You are entitled to your opinion about who should be playing when. But you are also, along with me and everyone else, out of your depth.
 
I don’t think we are in any position to decide white players with less talent than black players are on the field. We simply do not know that is the case. OK. You are entitled to your opinion about who should be playing when. But you are also, along with me and everyone else, out of your depth.

Absolutely. Playing time is based solely on a coaches decision.

BUT these black players see a whole lot more than we do. And maybe that is one cause of the transfer rate. They feel disrespected by the system. And then the statements from the coaches become even more barbed. I think it sets up a catch 22 that leads to black players leaving the program. And thus feeling wronged and abused.

Again, I am speculating and am playing these things out as I type. I have no clue who is telling the truth and who isnt. And what really happened behind closed doors. I just know we have a terrible transfer and graduation rate among black football players. And now we have dozens telling stories of abuse.

Like this country now, what is the truth behind anything that is happening. Social media plays such a big part in the dissemination of information, that none of us knows what is really the truth.
 
Very true. Iowa football plays a system that is based almost on perfection. And I get the athlete vs. experience argument. IMO though it breaks down when much more talented players sit on the bench and rarely see the field. Or a white average QB starts over a heisman quality black QB. Or that walk on white FS gets ran by because he wasnt athletic enough to catch or move parallel to stop the fast guy. And a really athletic talented FS sits and watches and may have made a coverage mistake but doesnt get ran by.

We have seen this time and time again. Its the whole "That guy must be a great practice player" thing that follows Iowa. And that goes to the feelings of mistreatment by many of the black players I imagine.
Motigerhawk this is an excellent post. Seen this far too many times.
 
The program is like much of America. White America has certain expectations for what it considers to be appropriate or professional or acceptable dress. It doesnt always align with black America. It doesnt make it racist to ask that people act according to certain rules for $100,000+ of free education.

Are you saying Black student-athletes should be open to conforming to the White culture you're explaining because they get a scholarship?
 
We've known for years that Kirk starts seniors over underclassmen unless necessity dictates otherwise. That is just who he is. He is a system guy. Hell, Shonn Greene found the dog house for a fumble. Kirk loves ball security. He also loves knowledge on the o-line and defense. If you're a little bit better than a guy two years older but you miss a read and get the QB's head ripped off, that is a problem. If you're a DB and try to jump a route when it was a coverage where you didn't have help over the top, it's a problem. These Iowa teams are coached incredibly well. You'll see the other team line up in an illegal formation and the D will be playing 11 on 10 because these guys are so well coached they know not to cover the illegal guy. It takes time to learn that style of football and just because you're a better athlete doesn't necessarily translate into you immediately being the starter at Iowa. I think this is hard for some kids to grasp.

Unfortunately, our society has reached a point where people have to juxtapose a narrative over something like this and it has been used so much, it is hard to tell whether it is true or false.

It would be nice if our gracious site host went player by player on transfers out and gave us depth chart ahead of them, where they ended up, how they did there and other circumstances surrounding transfer (e.g., tidbits around guys like Coker or Cleveland). I think looking at raw numbers doesn't tell the whole story.

Maybe society has reached a point where abuse and harassment isn't as acceptable.
 
My best friend has a boy on the team. KF is genuine. Considerate. Welcoming. He stands for everything you see on paper. Im not saying he hasn't made mistakes. Leadership is difficult. The POTUS...i mean....he's still in the office. I won't get political but PUH-LEASE! So, there is at least 50% of America, 49% anyway that hold his view of America in high regard. Scary! But, KF is not Trump. The good has far outweighed the bad. He deserves opportunity to fix issues.

Is he white?
 
You are weak. You bitch about Hawkeye athletics all the time. Must be miserable to live with you. Insert your sob story here. Everyone has one Karen. Support your team. Are you leaving the United States any time soon? Oh, sticking around hoping it changes? Not convenient for you to leave it? Isn't that lazy? Are you guilty of complacency and white privilege. What are you doing? You are pointing fingers, whining, pouting, pulling people down to your level. Why are YOU the negative in nearly everyone's posts? You live there. You enjoy it Karen.

Change starts with the man in the mirror. That finger that you point...creates four opportunities pointing back at you to challenge yourself. Whining on a message board about "your team." Be the change. Go do something about it. I am fine with what is being done as are the majority of the black players in and around the program. No one is perfect, I believe KF has a good heart and genuinely cares about his players.

Hamster wheel.
 
What would it take for you to say No to KF?

I asked you a simple question and your response is to pitch an entirely different question back. What would it take for you to engage in a rational discussion?

Is it possible the players' public statements about the changes they've felt in the program are accurate?
 
What I see is the transfers were not first string. Call it like it is. Where are the first stringers that transfered. Where? You can't conveniently look past that. Yes, if you don't like the team rules, you have the right to leave. Doyle is a different issue. But, I think a coach has a right to have a dress code. Should be fair for all. We were all white and we had to have our hair cut, no facial hair, no jewelry. Its not cultural. It's societal. So blame society, which everyone is now doing. All of America needs to look in the mirror. But 90% of America can't be fired. America is about second chances. Time to practice what everyone preaches for all. Yourself included.
 
You are weak. You bitch about Hawkeye athletics all the time. Must be miserable to live with you. Insert your sob story here. Everyone has one Karen. Support your team. Are you leaving the United States any time soon? Oh, sticking around hoping it changes? Not convenient for you to leave it? Isn't that lazy? Are you guilty of complacency and white privilege. What are you doing? You are pointing fingers, whining, pouting, pulling people down to your level. Why are YOU the negative in nearly everyone's posts? You live there. You enjoy it Karen.

Change starts with the man in the mirror. That finger that you point...creates four opportunities pointing back at you to challenge yourself. Whining on a message board about "your team." Be the change. Go do something about it. I am fine with what is being done as are the majority of the black players in and around the program. No one is perfect, I believe KF has a good heart and genuinely cares about his players.

You remind me of our local school admin and board. The acknowledged the bullying of my special needs daughter was going on. Some even cried about including teachers.. She s so sweet referring to my daughter. We will look for it but we just can't stop it. You can home school. I went thru all the proper steps and got nowhere. The next meeting and attorney from two hours away in Chicago was sitting by me and the police were notified. Guess what got stopped immediately. You are a school board member.
 
I asked you a simple question and your response is to pitch an entirely different question back. What would it take for you to engage in a rational discussion?

Is it possible the players' public statements about the changes they've felt in the program are accurate?

Learn about abuse and human behavior.
 
Are you saying Black student-athletes should be open to conforming to the White culture you're explaining because they get a scholarship?
Your statement is as responsible as your sensationalist approach to an IOWA FAN SITE. This isnt the New York Times or Esquire. Back to your question. White, Black, Yellow, Green, Blue...asking for 1) Hair style/length, 2) Dress Code, 3) Uniform, 4) covering Tattoos, 5) several other items are not illegal or racially biased is acceptable for an educational institution or business.. Not getting to wear a wife-beater or hoodie is not a violation of civil rights or a right guaranteed by the constitution. Most people's work places, as Iowa is an AT WILL employer state, can demand any of these or fire non-compliant employees. None of these things are racially biased items.

Using racial slurs, allowing variations to the codes for different races.....both are items where a program can/should be held accountable. Not getting to "be you" is a decision each individual must make as it pertains to being a member of a football program or place of busoness. Its America. Any athlete could choose a program that fits their motivation better. To your point, IF any athlete feels that the program is forcing them to adapt to a uniform code that they don't appreciate, if they MUST wear something outside of the expected uniform, find a new place to play/work. The very same is true for anyone here. Go into your bank job tomorrow wearing shorts...see what happens. D

DO NOT blur the lines. I feel Doyle crossed the line and got what he deserved. KF has and is facing criticism for not knowing exactly how YOU would create culture as is most of American business and industry. Its easy to sit back in the recliner and say i would do this, this and that better.. YOU struggle with it in this limited environment. Do you not at times? It's hypocritical to demand that some can wave a magic wand and solve or have answers for every thing that comes up when you know having all people agree with policy is impossible. They addressed the issues. Doing nothing would have been a problem. Doing what you think they should do is a difference in opinion.

The University of Iowa is unique. WE ARENT SUPPOSED TO BE HERE. Come on, our population/talent pool is the size of one city in a blue blood school's state. We arent a southern (warm) school or a coastal school. There are no culturally exciting metropolitan areas here. So the Iowa way is to get kids who are willing to be trained hard for bigger things in life. The staff is known for developing kids so we get kids that want to get to the next level knowing the staff is very good at making pros. Will we be as effective with less discipline? Again, don't mistake discipline to mean racism. Making kids follow tough rules and act in a certain way is an Iowa advantage. Look at any coach talk about Iowa. "You are in for a war." "Their kids are extremely well-coached and disciplined." "You always know when you played Iowa because the next week in practice you hurt."

No, I don't expect a black student athlete to "lower" himself or to conform to white culture. A dress code is not white culture. Hair length is not white culture. Wearing a required uniform (tshirt/shorts) is not white culture. It is called being disciplined. Write a letter to the military asking them to abandon all disciplinary "rule adherance" techniques and let me know what they tell you. You have an agenda. You want to be a hero. You will reply and hide behind doing the right thing. Not up in here. Not at fanning flames to a fire on a very decent gentleman. Let the process work itself out. He who has no sin, cast the first stone.
 
You remind me of our local school admin and board. The acknowledged the bullying of my special needs daughter was going on. Some even cried about including teachers.. She s so sweet referring to my daughter. We will look for it but we just can't stop it. You can home school. I went thru all the proper steps and got nowhere. The next meeting and attorney from two hours away in Chicago was sitting by me and the police were notified. Guess what got stopped immediately. You are a school board member.
There it is....right on schedule. I'm sorry for your experiences. I apologize on behalf of any and every decent human being who would cringe to know that such atrocities happen. But, you can continue to be a victim, blame everything on earth on your feelings of inadequacy and helplessness or you can sack up and pick yourself up off the ground and quit crying about it all the time. Im proud of you for your passion, but introducing yourself with a "look what happened to me" business card is pathetic. Save it for church. Ill talk about it at church with you if you'd like. It defines you. I knew it was coming. You walked right into it. It invalidates anything you say when you blame others or compare them to the bullies in your life. You think that I'm insensitive. Brother I would cry with you if you needed me to. But...life doesn't work that way. Honestly.

"Life is mean and hard and it will beat you down and bury you if you let it. Its not how hard you can get hit, it's how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward. How much you can take and keep moving forward." - R Balboa
 
Your statement is as responsible as your sensationalist approach to an IOWA FAN SITE. This isnt the New York Times or Esquire. Back to your question. White, Black, Yellow, Green, Blue...asking for 1) Hair style/length, 2) Dress Code, 3) Uniform, 4) covering Tattoos, 5) several other items are not illegal or racially biased is acceptable for an educational institution or business.. Not getting to wear a wife-beater or hoodie is not a violation of civil rights or a right guaranteed by the constitution. Most people's work places, as Iowa is an AT WILL employer state, can demand any of these or fire non-compliant employees. None of these things are racially biased items.

Using racial slurs, allowing variations to the codes for different races.....both are items where a program can/should be held accountable. Not getting to "be you" is a decision each individual must make as it pertains to being a member of a football program or place of busoness. Its America. Any athlete could choose a program that fits their motivation better. To your point, IF any athlete feels that the program is forcing them to adapt to a uniform code that they don't appreciate, if they MUST wear something outside of the expected uniform, find a new place to play/work. The very same is true for anyone here. Go into your bank job tomorrow wearing shorts...see what happens. D

DO NOT blur the lines. I feel Doyle crossed the line and got what he deserved. KF has and is facing criticism for not knowing exactly how YOU would create culture as is most of American business and industry. Its easy to sit back in the recliner and say i would do this, this and that better.. YOU struggle with it in this limited environment. Do you not at times? It's hypocritical to demand that some can wave a magic wand and solve or have answers for every thing that comes up when you know having all people agree with policy is impossible. They addressed the issues. Doing nothing would have been a problem. Doing what you think they should do is a difference in opinion.

The University of Iowa is unique. WE ARENT SUPPOSED TO BE HERE. Come on, our population/talent pool is the size of one city in a blue blood school's state. We arent a southern (warm) school or a coastal school. There are no culturally exciting metropolitan areas here. So the Iowa way is to get kids who are willing to be trained hard for bigger things in life. The staff is known for developing kids so we get kids that want to get to the next level knowing the staff is very good at making pros. Will we be as effective with less discipline? Again, don't mistake discipline to mean racism. Making kids follow tough rules and act in a certain way is an Iowa advantage. Look at any coach talk about Iowa. "You are in for a war." "Their kids are extremely well-coached and disciplined." "You always know when you played Iowa because the next week in practice you hurt."

No, I don't expect a black student athlete to "lower" himself or to conform to white culture. A dress code is not white culture. Hair length is not white culture. Wearing a required uniform (tshirt/shorts) is not white culture. It is called being disciplined. Write a letter to the military asking them to abandon all disciplinary "rule adherance" techniques and let me know what they tell you. You have an agenda. You want to be a hero. You will reply and hide behind doing the right thing. Not up in here. Not at fanning flames to a fire on a very decent gentleman. Let the process work itself out. He who has no sin, cast the first stone.
Agree 100%, Rob has an axe to grind with KF. Rob keeps saying he gets no satisfaction from this but he can't wait to scoop something. Good for you. I have been on HN for many many years and I am done. Going to the other site to get the hell away from him. Good luck, enjoy yourself. I hope Rob ends up reporting on Regina softball. Puke
 

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