Iowa Basketball and the AP Poll

JonDMiller

Publisher/Founder
(If you want to read this item with links to the data, you can do so at this link: Hawkeyes: Iowa Hoops AP Poll History LessonHawkeye Nation)

The Hawkeyes are set to take on Maryland in the NIT Final Four tonight and basketball is on our minds. An AP Poll discussion topic came up on twitter and sent me to the AP archives to see how many times Iowa has been ranked during the program’s history.

Here are a few of my findings:

The AP Poll dates back to 1949. Since its inception, Iowa ranks 21st all time in AP Poll history related to most appearances, at 314. So if you want to use rankings as a barometer, Iowa is close to being a Top 20 program over the span of the last 64 years.

What about 1949 through the end of the Tom Davis era, which ended in 1999? Iowa ranked 13th all time in most AP Poll Appearances during that 50 year stretch. That’s real impressive and a little bit surprising. Iowa was also in the Top 25 in attendance average every year from 1978 through every one of the Tom Davis years and even most of the Alford years, save the very end.

What about 2000-2013, the start of the Alford era through today? Iowa is 48th.

What about the Alford era, 2000-2007? Iowa was 31st, but only went to three NCAA tournaments out of eight years, well below the three of every four years average Iowa had in the 21 years prior to Alford’s arrival.

What about 2007-2013, or basically since Northwestern State beat Iowa on a three-point shot in the NCAA tournament? Well, there have been 98 teams ranked for at least one week of the season since then in the AP Polls that have taken place. Iowa is not one of those 98 teams. That is a seven year drought of being ranked in the AP Poll for Iowa. Iowa and Penn State are the only two teams from the Big Ten to not have been ranked at least once during the past seven years. Drake (nine times) and Northern Iowa (fuor times) have been ranked during that time, as has Iowa State (once).

This isn’t to dig on any one coach or era, although the Todd Lickliter era will forever be the nuclear winter of Iowa basketball or at least we should hope it will be. This is to point out to some of you in your 20′s and younger 30′s reading this that, once upon a time, Iowa had a basketball program that was more than just respectable and entertaining; it was quite relevant nationally. I am not talking about a juggernaut, but it was a program that was a part of March Madness more often than not.

Between 1979 and 1999, Iowa had the 12th most AP Poll appearances in the sport and only Indiana and Michigan had more, with Michigan having just one more than Iowa. During the 1980′s, the peak of the college game as it relates to quality of players and play (that’s according to most coaches who were around then and are still alive today, including Coach K), Iowa ranked 5th in the sport in AP Poll appearances and tops in the Big Ten. Do I sound like the old guy waxing poetic about ‘his day’? Probably.

That said, I believe Fran McCaffery has a chance to bring Iowa back to some of those times. Do I think Iowa can get to the NCAA tournament three of four years? I do not. Wisconsin is a player now and they were not back in the day. Northwestern is better than they ever were. Michigan State is much stronger now than they were in the 80′s. Michigan has rebuilt their brand. Ohio State is a much stronger force now than they were in the past as it relates to consistency of greatness. Indiana is rising again. Maryland will be joining the league and they have a rich basketball tradition. So the days of three of four years with trips to the NCAA tournament are probably gone. Five out of ten? Yeah, I think that is a fair expectation and I think Iowa can get there. Fran McCaffery is proving to be the right man for this job and the program is poised to have that break out year next year.

However, this year is not done. These Hawkeyes can still put two more wins on the board to add to their 24-12 record. Iowa loses just one player for next year’s team and they add a few more weapons.

While Iowa would much rather be in the NCAA tournament, they are making the best out of the NIT appearance. If you’re in it, you might as well win it.
 
If Iowa wins the NIT,will they sneak into the top 25?

I saw a stat that since 2000, the Big Ten leads all leagues in FF appearances,with 12. ACC was next with 11. So, as bad as some have painted the ''dark'' era of Big Ten bb the first half of that decade, the Big Ten still managed to have teams get into the hunt in the FF....too bad none could win the damn thing.
 
Good stuff and just more data to show how good of a job Fran has been doing and how Iowa started in a Downwards Spiral that fell in a pile of cow poop.
 
But, but, but... We're just Iowa, no coach would ever want to come here, yada yada yada. I never believed that, and nobody can every try to tell me that. Just isn't true.

No, I don't expect Iowa to become Kansas or Kentucky. But it can win with the right coach. Fran is getting it done, and I expect Iowa to ranked somewhere in the preseason polls next season. The streak of not being ranked should end soon.

Can Iowa get to 3 of 4 NCAA Tournaments? Just my opinion, but I believe it CAN. Not that it will be easy, to say the least, but I just can't believe the nay sayers (sorry Jon) who say it can't be done. If Wisconsin can get to the NCAA Tournament every single year, why can't Iowa do 3 of 4? Besides, the Big Ten is as good as it's been in a long time. Maybe ever. But that can't last forever - there's an ebb and a flow to everything. Look at the ACC, it's down from where it was. Bo Ryan won't always coach at Wisconsin. I think Minnesota made a collossal mistake in firing Tubby, and now apparently having to scramble for a new coach. NW may have slipped up in getting rid of Bill Carmody, unless Collins works out. We shall see.

At any rate, Iowa Basketball is IMO on the verge of being every bit as good as it was under Davis - possibly better. I'm excited to see how far Fran can take us.
 
But, but, but... We're just Iowa, no coach would ever want to come here, yada yada yada. I never believed that, and nobody can every try to tell me that. Just isn't true.

Sorry, but it was.

The facilities problem Iowa had was significant. the money was going to football at the time, Iowa could not fund both at the same time. I will give Alford a pass on his football school comments...because at the time, based on what he was told/promised kept getting pushed back, and the money was going to football, it seemed like a football school to him.

In the 1980's, Iowa had the newest facility until the Breslin Center opened real late in the decade...CHA opened I think in 1983.

Stuff like this matters to kids more today than it did in the past. Iowa has just now gotten its feet back under it. Lick was pretty much DOA, in hind sight. Boring style of play and bottom of the league facilities.
 
No, I don't expect Iowa to become Kansas or Kentucky. But it can win with the right coach. Fran is getting it done, and I expect Iowa to ranked somewhere in the preseason polls next season. The streak of not being ranked should end soon.

Can Iowa get to 3 of 4 NCAA Tournaments? Just my opinion, but I believe it CAN. Not that it will be easy, to say the least, but I just can't believe the nay sayers (sorry Jon) who say it can't be done. If Wisconsin can get to the NCAA Tournament every single year, why can't Iowa do 3 of 4? Besides, the Big Ten is as good as it's been in a long time. Maybe ever. But that can't last forever - there's an ebb and a flow to everything. Look at the ACC, it's down from where it was. Bo Ryan won't always coach at Wisconsin. I think Minnesota made a collossal mistake in firing Tubby, and now apparently having to scramble for a new coach. NW may have slipped up in getting rid of Bill Carmody, unless Collins works out. We shall see.

I agree.
 
If Iowa wins the NIT,will they sneak into the top 25?

I saw a stat that since 2000, the Big Ten leads all leagues in FF appearances,with 12. ACC was next with 11. So, as bad as some have painted the ''dark'' era of Big Ten bb the first half of that decade, the Big Ten still managed to have teams get into the hunt in the FF....too bad none could win the damn thing.

Really unlikely. The final AP poll will just be shuffling the upper tier of teams that already are in the Top 25. No room for someone to sneak in.
 
I remember wanting Tom Davis to leave. I remember not being satisfied with just second round losses or making it to the sweet 16. SAY WHAT?!

I think now we finally have the perfect storm. Great coach, great players, great facilities. Not only do I think Iowa will finish in the top 3 in conference next year, but I see no reason why they couldn't advance far into the tournament.
 
Really unlikely. The final AP poll will just be shuffling the upper tier of teams that already are in the Top 25. No room for someone to sneak in.

You may be right but Minnesota was ranked 25th in ESPN's preseason poll this year and they lost in the NIT championship game last...returned the majority of their guys like us. This is the only poll where they were ranked preseason but may have been more if they had won the NIT rather than finishing 2nd with what they had coming back.
 
John's data proves what I have felt for sometime. Iowa FB/BB programs are historically very solid competitive programs. The difference between Iowa and some others is they have not had that "magical" season where all the breaks and bounces go their way and get a championship. But on the other hand until recently for both programs they have also not been bottom feeders. I would love it if either program could win a national championship, but would we sign up for that if it meant 15 years of losing after?
 
You may be right but Minnesota was ranked 25th in ESPN's preseason poll this year and they lost in the NIT championship game last...returned the majority of their guys like us. This is the only poll where they were ranked preseason but may have been more if they had won the NIT rather than finishing 2nd with what they had coming back.

Minnesota was also barely top 50 in KenPom and Sagarin at the end of last year. Iowa is going to finish top 25 in both of those polls this season, return all five starters, 10 of the top 11 guys, and have shown significant improvement in each of Fran's first three years.
 
(If you want to read this item with links to the data, you can do so at this link: Hawkeyes: Iowa Hoops AP Poll History LessonHawkeye Nation)

The Hawkeyes are set to take on Maryland in the NIT Final Four tonight and basketball is on our minds. An AP Poll discussion topic came up on twitter and sent me to the AP archives to see how many times Iowa has been ranked during the program’s history.

Here are a few of my findings:

The AP Poll dates back to 1949. Since its inception, Iowa ranks 21st all time in AP Poll history related to most appearances, at 314. So if you want to use rankings as a barometer, Iowa is close to being a Top 20 program over the span of the last 64 years.

What about 1949 through the end of the Tom Davis era, which ended in 1999? Iowa ranked 13th all time in most AP Poll Appearances during that 50 year stretch. That’s real impressive and a little bit surprising. Iowa was also in the Top 25 in attendance average every year from 1978 through every one of the Tom Davis years and even most of the Alford years, save the very end.

What about 2000-2013, the start of the Alford era through today? Iowa is 48th.

What about the Alford era, 2000-2007? Iowa was 31st, but only went to three NCAA tournaments out of eight years, well below the three of every four years average Iowa had in the 21 years prior to Alford’s arrival.

What about 2007-2013, or basically since Northwestern State beat Iowa on a three-point shot in the NCAA tournament? Well, there have been 98 teams ranked for at least one week of the season since then in the AP Polls that have taken place. Iowa is not one of those 98 teams. That is a seven year drought of being ranked in the AP Poll for Iowa. Iowa and Penn State are the only two teams from the Big Ten to not have been ranked at least once during the past seven years. Drake (nine times) and Northern Iowa (fuor times) have been ranked during that time, as has Iowa State (once).

This isn’t to dig on any one coach or era, although the Todd Lickliter era will forever be the nuclear winter of Iowa basketball or at least we should hope it will be. This is to point out to some of you in your 20′s and younger 30′s reading this that, once upon a time, Iowa had a basketball program that was more than just respectable and entertaining; it was quite relevant nationally. I am not talking about a juggernaut, but it was a program that was a part of March Madness more often than not.

Between 1979 and 1999, Iowa had the 12th most AP Poll appearances in the sport and only Indiana and Michigan had more, with Michigan having just one more than Iowa. During the 1980′s, the peak of the college game as it relates to quality of players and play (that’s according to most coaches who were around then and are still alive today, including Coach K), Iowa ranked 5th in the sport in AP Poll appearances and tops in the Big Ten. Do I sound like the old guy waxing poetic about ‘his day’? Probably.

That said, I believe Fran McCaffery has a chance to bring Iowa back to some of those times. Do I think Iowa can get to the NCAA tournament three of four years? I do not. Wisconsin is a player now and they were not back in the day. Northwestern is better than they ever were. Michigan State is much stronger now than they were in the 80′s. Michigan has rebuilt their brand. Ohio State is a much stronger force now than they were in the past as it relates to consistency of greatness. Indiana is rising again. Maryland will be joining the league and they have a rich basketball tradition. So the days of three of four years with trips to the NCAA tournament are probably gone. Five out of ten? Yeah, I think that is a fair expectation and I think Iowa can get there. Fran McCaffery is proving to be the right man for this job and the program is poised to have that break out year next year.

However, this year is not done. These Hawkeyes can still put two more wins on the board to add to their 24-12 record. Iowa loses just one player for next year’s team and they add a few more weapons.

While Iowa would much rather be in the NCAA tournament, they are making the best out of the NIT appearance. If you’re in it, you might as well win it.

Also worth pointing out that a number of the programs Iowa was directly competing with in the 80s and 90s were later found to have been cheating.
 
Sorry, but it was.

The facilities problem Iowa had was significant. the money was going to football at the time, Iowa could not fund both at the same time. I will give Alford a pass on his football school comments...because at the time, based on what he was told/promised kept getting pushed back, and the money was going to football, it seemed like a football school to him.

In the 1980's, Iowa had the newest facility until the Breslin Center opened real late in the decade...CHA opened I think in 1983.

Stuff like this matters to kids more today than it did in the past. Iowa has just now gotten its feet back under it. Lick was pretty much DOA, in hind sight. Boring style of play and bottom of the league facilities.

I can't disagree, but as you said, Iowa does NOW have good facilities again, so it shouldn't have that excuse anymore. Again, I'm not saying Iowa will dominate the Big Ten or anything, but see no reason why it can't have Wisconsin-like success, at least. Given the right coach, good facilities, etc. If Wisconsin can go to the NCAA's every year, there's really no excuse for Iowa IMO. I think you are right about Lick.

So do you think Carver is still considered a good arena, even though it's 30 years old? I guess it's maybe middle of the pack these days in terms of "age" within the conference, but still seems like a nice enough arena. I haven't been to other B10 arenas for comparison, though. All I know is what I see on TV, but I'm not sure what IU, ILL, Purdue, Michigan, etc. arenas have that CHA does not?
 
I agree with Jon that the facilities were a problem and contributed to the downward spiral of the basketball program. However, I believe that Iowa CAN become a relevant program as it was in the 80s and 90s. I think 3 out of 4 NCAA tournaments IS possible again with the right coach .. and I believe Fran is that coach.

GO HAWKS!!!
 
Minnesota was also barely top 50 in KenPom and Sagarin at the end of last year. Iowa is going to finish top 25 in both of those polls this season, return all five starters, 10 of the top 11 guys, and have shown significant improvement in each of Fran's first three years.

Good points!
 
Like Jon, I grew up in the "golden age" of Hawkeye basketball. It was all I knew. I sort of assumed that NCAA tournaments and Top 25 rankings were our birthright. It was that mentality that got Tom Davis shown the door and ushered in the bottoming out of the program.

But nature (and sports) abhors a vacuum. Our bottoming out coincided with Wisconsin's rise as a program.

From 1979-1999, the Hawks had a total record of 411-212, a winning pct. of 66%. It's B1G record during this time was 196-160, a winning % of 55%. It's avg B1G finish during this time was 4th. And we had only 3 losing records, 16 20-win seasons and went to the NCAAs 15 times in those 20 years. Conversely, the Wisconsin program was 274-309, a winning pct. of 47%. Their B1G record was a paltry 118-238, a winning pct of just 33%. They had 14 non-winning seasons, only one 20-win season (in the 20th year of the 20 year look) and just 3 NCAA tourney invites.

Then Alford happened.....followed by an even worse coach in Lickliter. During the 11 years of Alford and Lick (plus Fran's 1st year cleaning up the mess), the Hawks sunk to records of 201-183 overall, B1G record of 80-120 (avg finish of 7th) and only 3 NCAA invites. Conversely, Wisconsin under the later years of Dick Bennett and then Bo Ryan, posted records of 282-116 overall and 137-63 in the B1G (avg finish of 3rd) and 12 NCAA invites.

For whatever reason, our 2 programs seem to be linked....whether it be basketball or football. When our football program is up, theirs is down. Likewise in basketball. I think for the Hawks to make the leap to the 1st division in basketball, we're going to have to take it from Wisconsin. Michigan State, Indiana, OSU and Michigan aren't going anywhere, barring scandal. They're the bluebloods of the conference. We've had a good start at this by beating them 3 of the last 4 with the only loss being in double OT at their place. But to make the next step, we've got to win some on the road against quality conference teams.

I'm excited to see if we can do it!
 
Do the Big 10 coaches vote on a preseason order of finish? If so I wonder where Iowa will land. I guess I wonder the same thing about what the media's predictions will be for next year.
 
Do the Big 10 coaches vote on a preseason order of finish? If so I wonder where Iowa will land. I guess I wonder the same thing about what the media's predictions will be for next year.

Everything hinges on who leaves....

Does Thomas leave OSU? How many leave Michigan? How many leave Indiana? Does Payne from MSU declare?

Based on who leaves or who doesn't, I can see the Hawks finishing anywhere from 2nd to 5th.

Remember the days when we were guessing who was going to be transferring? So glad we don't have to worry about that anymore. It could be like NC State who's lost their entire starting 5; two to graduation, 2 to early entry to NBA and one transfer.
 
I'm not worried at all about the men's hoops team, coaching, and program.

I'm worried sick about the football team, coaching, and program.
 

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