If you think College Refs are bad, Iowa High School has them as well

Fryowa said:
As an official, the problem with the shortage is that everything that would fix it will degrade quality, and what you guys as coaches (I was one too) want is higher quality. Coaches want to have the cake and eat it too. Money and training is off the table because of budgets.

I have coached a varsity sport as well (baseball) and believe me when I say that the shortage and lack of quality is real. I see it all the time.

I also think that having seen both sides, officiating is more mentally taxing (to do well), whereas coaching at the same level takes a much bigger time commitment and there can be enormous pressures that we as officials don’t feel. There are certainly shitty coaches as you well know, I truly think they are equally hard to do at a high level.

I also believe that in order to get a varsity-level coaching certificate you should have to officiate at least one full season of that sport. It would give coaches both a better understanding of rules and procedures, as well as an understanding of what officials deal with.

Obviously this will never happen, but in a perfect world I think it should.
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Great post. You're absolutely right. Ironic that you mentioned the part about officiating one year to get a varsity level certificate. I've always said that as a coach I've wanted to attend referee clinics/trainings to really get a feel for what they do and an idea to look at the game the way they do. It's way to easy to throw an inexperienced official under the bus, but at the same time as you said to bridge the gap between coaches and officials I think it's imperative to understand how they see the game and know what they are looking for.

I think the biggest thing that I've learned in 20 years of coaching is that professionalism has to come first. You're never going to see things the same, but there has to be a common level of respect between coaches, players, and officials. I show that respect and get that same level of respect back it creates a level playing field where I may not always agree, but I will accept that they probably got it right. That said, if the level of respect isn't there it creates a hostile environment in which everyone loses.
 
kicker22 said:
Great post. You're absolutely right. Ironic that you mentioned the part about officiating one year to get a varsity level certificate. I've always said that as a coach I've wanted to attend referee clinics/trainings to really get a feel for what they do and an idea to look at the game the way they do. It's way to easy to throw an inexperienced official under the bus, but at the same time as you said to bridge the gap between coaches and officials I think it's imperative to understand how they see the game and know what they are looking for.

I think the biggest thing that I've learned in 20 years of coaching is that professionalism has to come first. You're never going to see things the same, but there has to be a common level of respect between coaches, players, and officials. I show that respect and get that same level of respect back it creates a level playing field where I may not always agree, but I will accept that they probably got it right. That said, if the level of respect isn't there it creates a hostile environment in which everyone loses.
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You'd be a rock star at a clinic if you told everyone why you were there. Not kidding. That would earn you instant respect with everyone in the room, especially veteran officials who are good at it.

One of the other problems that not everyone talks about is what you mentioned...inexperienced officials. The IAHSAA has more trouble retaining guys than getting them to start in the first place, and invariably it's because of coaches and fans yelling at them. I'll be the first to admit that my first year I sucked big time and my second year I still sucked, just not quite as bad, even though I played all the way from 4 years old through college. I thought I knew the game inside and out and I was dead wrong. Like, embarrassingly wrong. Nothing has ever humbled me more than working my first varsity plate. I stunk the joint up and I'm man enough to admit it any day.

It only takes one time for a new guy to get yelled at and embarrassed in front of a crowd for him to never come back. The money isn't worth it and it's the only job where you get zero training and are expected to be perfect the first day.

To coaches out there...

Consider that the official you're pissed at is:

1) Doing the absolute best he knows how, especially if he's new. It might cost you some runs or points or a game, but if you are decent to the guy he will come back, and he will get better, and you will have a 15 year veteran in 15 years, not a cycle of never ending new guys. He already feels like a fuckin loser for blowing calls and there's a good chance his wife and kids came to watch dad...you ain't helping things, Jack. Talk to him like a man, not a goddamn two year old...and by two year old I mean you, coach. Let's face it...you ain't Joe Torre.

2) You likely would be just as bad at it. As coaches we think we know everything, but I've been lucky enough to have the opportunity to find out. You don't know shit compared to what you think you do.
 
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Here's a couple of views of the play ... the 2nd one with the play before the play in another tweet.


 
And, here was another ending where there was .9 left before the play. This one looks good. Iowa HS had some endings last night.

 
Fryowa said:
You'd be a rock star at a clinic if you told everyone why you were there. Not kidding. That would earn you instant respect with everyone in the room, especially veteran officials who are good at it.

One of the other problems that not everyone talks about is what you mentioned...inexperienced officials. The IAHSAA has more trouble retaining guys than getting them to start in the first place, and invariably it's because of coaches and fans yelling at them. I'll be the first to admit that my first year I sucked big time and my second year I still sucked, just not quite as bad, even though I played all the way from 4 years old through college. I thought I knew the game inside and out and I was dead wrong. Like, embarrassingly wrong. Nothing has ever humbled me more than working my first varsity plate. I stunk the joint up and I'm man enough to admit it any day.

It only takes one time for a new guy to get yelled at and embarrassed in front of a crowd for him to never come back. The money isn't worth it and it's the only job where you get zero training and are expected to be perfect the first day.

To coaches out there...

Consider that the official you're pissed at is:

1) Doing the absolute best he knows how, especially if he's new. It might cost you some runs or points or a game, but if you are decent to the guy he will come back, and he will get better, and you will have a 15 year veteran in 15 years, not a cycle of never ending new guys. He already feels like a fuckin loser for blowing calls and there's a good chance his wife and kids came to watch dad...you ain't helping things, Jack. Talk to him like a man, not a goddamn two year old, and by 2 year old, I mean you, coach. Let's face it...you ain't Joe Torre.

2) You likely would be just as bad at it. As coaches we think we know everything, but I've been lucky enough to have the opportunity to find out. You don't know shit compared to what you think you do.
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As a coach, I'll say a couple of things. First, I don't necessarily want an umpire that gets every call right. I want one that's going to hustle, try to do their best, and want to be there. Second, I've coached baseball at the HS and college level for almost 30 years, and the longer I've coached, the less I feel I know. Damn I thought I knew it all 20 years ago.
 
Xerxes said:
This is a pretty extreme example but with youth/high school sports going the way they are, which is basically open season on baseball umps & basketball officials, pretty soon they’ll be asking for volunteers from the crowd to ump & officiate games or have to cancel them.

I’m not excusing this clock operator or the ref crew but they’re basically volunteers who get paid a little bit for giving their time and listening to spectators complain the entire time
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Looking at the pic, looks like they already have.
 
HawkGold said:
Seriously...it s HS. Raise ticket prices substantially, pay more and get better equipment.

Have real rules for fan, coach, and player suspension including criminal penalties.

Openly rate refs. Fo to monitors and bitch about delays.

Our church at the time went to electronic timing and video cameras at the Awana Grand Prix pine car racing.

Don't complain about the current crews until it's done professionally.


The kid still caught the pass and made it.

See where the defender is? He has more blame than the crew.

Who is to say she didn't flip the switch early?

The shirt is in poor taste.
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The refs have an assignor as well as the state association rates the refs after performances. Problem is not very much of the officials qualified for post season play . They make you go through quite a bit of hoops to be eligible.
 
Fryowa said:
You'd be a rock star at a clinic if you told everyone why you were there. Not kidding. That would earn you instant respect with everyone in the room, especially veteran officials who are good at it.

One of the other problems that not everyone talks about is what you mentioned...inexperienced officials. The IAHSAA has more trouble retaining guys than getting them to start in the first place, and invariably it's because of coaches and fans yelling at them. I'll be the first to admit that my first year I sucked big time and my second year I still sucked, just not quite as bad, even though I played all the way from 4 years old through college. I thought I knew the game inside and out and I was dead wrong. Like, embarrassingly wrong. Nothing has ever humbled me more than working my first varsity plate. I stunk the joint up and I'm man enough to admit it any day.

It only takes one time for a new guy to get yelled at and embarrassed in front of a crowd for him to never come back. The money isn't worth it and it's the only job where you get zero training and are expected to be perfect the first day.

To coaches out there...

Consider that the official you're pissed at is:

1) Doing the absolute best he knows how, especially if he's new. It might cost you some runs or points or a game, but if you are decent to the guy he will come back, and he will get better, and you will have a 15 year veteran in 15 years, not a cycle of never ending new guys. He already feels like a fuckin loser for blowing calls and there's a good chance his wife and kids came to watch dad...you ain't helping things, Jack. Talk to him like a man, not a goddamn two year old...and by two year old I mean you, coach. Let's face it...you ain't Joe Torre.

2) You likely would be just as bad at it. As coaches we think we know everything, but I've been lucky enough to have the opportunity to find out. You don't know shit compared to what you think you do.
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I love doing my clinic hours . I learn something new every year
 
ssckelley said:
They have a petition going but I think it's a waste of time.

https://www.change.org/p/iowa-high-...dium=copylink&utm_campaign=petition_dashboard
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Complete waste of time. The IAHSAA has always backed up officials, even with monumental F ups. And they should. Once you start intervening and reversing calls you open up Pandora's box.

There was a ridiculous error with the lap bell at the state track meet last year that stood and that was way worse than this. Lots of other screw ups. If you as an association admit that one call was important enough to overturn, where do you draw the line and who decides what's important enough? You'd have to hire 10 people just to review complaints from every Tom Dick and Harry coach who thinks he got fucked.
 
Fryowa said:
You'd be a rock star at a clinic if you told everyone why you were there. Not kidding. That would earn you instant respect with everyone in the room, especially veteran officials who are good at it.

One of the other problems that not everyone talks about is what you mentioned...inexperienced officials. The IAHSAA has more trouble retaining guys than getting them to start in the first place, and invariably it's because of coaches and fans yelling at them. I'll be the first to admit that my first year I sucked big time and my second year I still sucked, just not quite as bad, even though I played all the way from 4 years old through college. I thought I knew the game inside and out and I was dead wrong. Like, embarrassingly wrong. Nothing has ever humbled me more than working my first varsity plate. I stunk the joint up and I'm man enough to admit it any day.

It only takes one time for a new guy to get yelled at and embarrassed in front of a crowd for him to never come back. The money isn't worth it and it's the only job where you get zero training and are expected to be perfect the first day.

To coaches out there...

Consider that the official you're pissed at is:

1) Doing the absolute best he knows how, especially if he's new. It might cost you some runs or points or a game, but if you are decent to the guy he will come back, and he will get better, and you will have a 15 year veteran in 15 years, not a cycle of never ending new guys. He already feels like a fuckin loser for blowing calls and there's a good chance his wife and kids came to watch dad...you ain't helping things, Jack. Talk to him like a man, not a goddamn two year old...and by two year old I mean you, coach. Let's face it...you ain't Joe Torre.

2) You likely would be just as bad at it. As coaches we think we know everything, but I've been lucky enough to have the opportunity to find out. You don't know shit compared to what you think you do.
Click to expand...

Great points. I think the main thing to remember is that coaches and refs all start from the bottom and work their way up. In both positions if you're not learning something new everyday and think you've got things all figured out, then its time to find a new hobby because your failing the profession as well as the kids and others officials/coaches you interact with on a day to day basis.

If I've learned anything in 20 years as a varsity coach, its try to get to know those on the other side and get to know them to the point where there's a mutual respect. There's a number of officials I've gotten to know over the years that I have very little in common with off the field and who I may not be fond on the field, but by interacting with them as frequently as possible and discussing things you encounter on and off the field it really helps putting things into perspective. At the end of the day, we're all human, and mutual respect goes along way. You're never going to see things the same or agree on everything, but if you attempt to know them as a human being capable of making mistakes it really helps you grasp the calls you disagree with. Players mirror coaches behavior and I guarantee if the respect is there your teaching the kids a much more valuable lesson then by screaming and chasing an official down the sideline.
 
Robowe said:
Here's a couple of views of the play ... the 2nd one with the play before the play in another tweet.


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Maybe it's just me, but from the second angle it looks good.

Clock starts maybe a tenth of a second after he touches it (which is somewhat impressive accounting for human error and input lag), and live looked plausible that it left his hands in time.

The only question is the ref standing in the way right as he touches it, but it's just a flash of him and the clock is clearly moving by the time he's out of the way.

Bad look to be wearing North Scott gear, but seems like much ado about nothing to me.
 
smitharooney said:
The refs have an assignor as well as the state association rates the refs after performances. Problem is not very much of the officials qualified for post season play . They make you go through quite a bit of hoops to be eligible.
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Kind of correct but not totally.

Officials do have an assignor. But it can either be a designated guy who assigns everyone in the area, or it can be multiple people. For example, I get games mainly from two people. One is a local AD who is responsible for assigning all Siouxland conference games. I get maybe 10% from him. The other guy is my "main" assignor, who is a fellow official and takes the overflow from that AD I mentioned. This can be a mix of conference and non-conference games. I get the rest from him and he also handles Sioux Falls area legion teams (I do less of these every year).

The state association does not rate officials. Coaches do. After every varsity contest two things happen...officials fill out a sportsmanship rating online for both teams, and both coaches rate the officials. IASHAA staff do not do this.There are several hundred games every week in the state of Iowa, you'd need an army of extremely qualified people to travel the state full time to do it. You can however request that a retired official come to one of your games to evaluate you. Pete Hansen from Storm Lake was one of the best umps in the business and he loves to do evaluations if you ask him to. Basically he'll watch you for the whole game and critique you afterwards.

There really aren't any hoops to jump through to work post season. You just have to be good. The only way you can get post season games is to get recommendations from coaches. I will say however, that the baseball umpire shortage is so severe that in that sport you can let the IAHSAA staff know that you want too be considered and they will reach out to coaches. But for say, basketball, the state takes coaches ratings and tells you what games you get. If you end up with a team on your do not schedule list you can turn it down and ask for another one, but it's not guaranteed.
 
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