If there's one thing about Lickliter I have to complain about it's this...

storminspank

storminspank

Justin VanLaere
Disclaimer: Some people have mentioned this in the past. I agree with some of it, other parts of it I don't. Parquet brought this up in the past, as well, so I am likely just reiterating what said previously. I just noticed a couple events last game that stuck out. I also want to point out that I realize this is Lickliter's team and he obviously can run it however he feels like it, just my thoughts on the situation.

Recall in the past we've had discussions about proverbial "doghouses" and favorites on the team. While I don't necessarily believe in those, I do think there are players on the team that have shorter leashes than others.

During the PSU game, Aaron Fuller was just tearing it up on the offensive glass and was getting a lot of good looks from 5 foot. He was playing a great, great game. At one point in the second half (sorry, can't pin point), Fuller missed a defensive assignment that allowed Penn State to get an easy bucket. At that point, I mentioned that Lickliter was going to pull him. Sure enough, Coach goes to the bench and gets Bawinkle to check in. However, there isn't a stoppage in play and Fuller doesn't come out. In fact, he makes up for the defensive lapse with a couple good plays on offense, a score, some hustle, and a board. Finally a timeout is called, and Fuller is taken out for Bawinkel. If there was a stoppage of play, Fuller would not have been able to redeem himself and would not have helped out to start building their 2nd half lead.

Conversely, Battle was being guarded by John Lickliter. He puts up a trey and John ends up fouling a jumpshooter 25 feet from the basket. A violation that I would think would be nearly as bad, if not worse, than allowing a bucket inside. John was called back to the bench (not taken out mind you) and was talked to by the staff.

Point being, Fuller was yanked for a defensive lapse, yet Lickliter wasn't.

This whole rant isn't about favoritism. It really isn't because there are times when John has been pulled immediately after a bad D play. This rant is about yanking people when they fail on the D end.

Coach Lickliter says no one is going to play a perfect game, so he realizes mistakes are going to happen. So why not just let the kids play? I'm pretty sure by now a guy like Fuller or Cole knows that he blew an assignment on D. Why not let him stay in a fix his mistake? And if you are going to pull people for blowing a D assignment, overhelping, not rotating, not getting out on the shooter, etc... just be consistent.

Again, I realize Coach Lickliter gets paid a lot of money to do what he does. He knows his players 10000 times better than I do. It's his deal. From an idiot fan's perspective, though, at some point and time you just have to let them play. Luckily for Fuller last time out against PSU he was able to stay in the game by the luck of the buzzer.
 
On the little Lick aspect, do you recall how many minutes Payne had been in prior to Lick coming in for him, and how much rest Payne had gotten at the time of Lick's mistake you cite? Payne has to get a blow...

And prior to Tucker's arrest, little Lick barely saw the court.
 
I agree with what you said here, Spank. I have a possible explanation (while I run the risk of being looked at as an apologist for the coach) - John is playing out of necessity (to rest Payne) while there is more depth at Fuller's position (although it's hard to believe DW was the one subbed in at the same spot). It's also possible that Fuller made a mistake that he has made many (or more) times in practice that he needed to be 'coached' on again.

As I said in a different thread, in the post game, Coach Lickliter referred to John as "my wife's son" in the post game radio interview when referring to the foul he committed on the 3 pointer, so he wasn't happy. I do think he needs to be careful when taking players out when committing errors especially when one of the players is his son.

You are brave taking this stance! You run the risk of someone not believing you are the most devoted apologist of the Hawkeye men's basketball team on the boards. :) I appreciate your honest look at this.
 
Jon, as I mentioned, this isn't about favoritism, it's about pulling the kid in the first place for making one mistake.

Cully actually got off the bench after John make that foul, then Lickliter rethought about it and sat him back down. You are probably right on the rest thing.

Still wondering why a kid can't stay in the game, though.
 
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I am not going to lie, this is probably the last thing I would complain about with this program. The losing would be my biggest complaint with this staff.
 
This happened at the 12:08 mark of the half. He left Lick in to give Payne rest to include the under 12 timeout. He then entered after the timeout.
 
ellehawk said:
This happened at the 12:08 mark of the half. He left Lick in to give Payne rest to include the under 12 timeout. He then entered after the timeout.
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Thanks, I was wondering it was an anomaly because there were games in the past when Lick was pulled instantly. Wasn't that followed up by the Lickliter shot that wasn't called for goaltending? It appeared as if John was trying to make up for his mistake on D, as well. He took it hard to the hole on that play.

The real question is - why pull the player anyway? Let them make up for their mistake.
 
I remember that instance as well spank. My thought was that he wanted to give a hustling Fuller a quick breather before crunch time.
 
storminspank said:
Thanks, I was wondering it was an anomaly because there were games in the past when Lick was pulled instantly. Wasn't that followed up by the Lickliter shot that wasn't called for goaltending? It appeared as if John was trying to make up for his mistake on D, as well. He took it hard to the hole on that play.

The real question is - why pull the player anyway? Let them make up for their mistake.
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Stormin its pretty simple really. If you were coach you'd let your guys play. Some coaches yank players. No right or wrong in my opinion. I've done both.
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this is 100% spot on. The bigger point in all of this is that we have a lot of young players who need to build confidence. Whenyou are constantly looking over your shoulder or playing not to make a mistake you tend to not play all out. This happens at all levels of bball.

I would say that with our young guys Lick should change his approach and lengthen the leash on these guys - let them play and see what weve got
 
This isn't directed at anyone, but as much as people complain about Lickliter not caring or not coaching this seems to be a coaching example. On a bad foul by John, you have time to talk to him while Battle is shooting 3 free throws. I'm positive Lickliter doesn't want to have to play his son and realizes someone will replace him next year.

Sometimes good coaches will be harder on the better players. I was always told by coaches that if they weren't talking to me about improvement then you want to worry about not playing.

As to Fuller being pulled for bad defense. I don't see how that is bad. Just because Fuller did well in the interim doesn't mean much. If Fuller had done poorly people would say that Lickliter wasn't paying attention to the game and should have subbed for Fuller earlier. I've seen many coaches pull someone out of a game get their point across and send them back to the scorer's table.

It is too easy to watch a game and contradict a coaches decision after it plays out. Just as going for the win is the correct call in any sport when it works and the wrong call when it doesn't.
 
Tom Davis used to do that all the time. But then, he was usually pretty consistent with his constant substituting.
 
For all the years I've been watching college basketball, I find Lickliter's substitution patterns and allocation of PT as a whole more difficult to understand than any coach I've ever watched--with the possible exception of Bob Knight.

If he wins, I don't care how he manages individual PT. It's not important for fans to understand and accept the reasons why some players play and others don't. It is important for players to understand that, however. If they don't, and there's been some indication of a lack of communication/understanding from both current and departed players, then it can create a problem.

In any event, if Lick doesn't start winning regularly and soon, it's another aspect of his "system" that's a head-scratcher and may end up being part of a logical explanation for why he didn't succeed here.
 
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There is a pattern? I agree, I fail to see the logic of the subbing and how time is distributed. Also, it really seems that there is little communication/coaching during the game, as least as compared to many other coaches I have watched over the years.
 
A lot of times when players are pulled for a mistake it is so they can come to the bench and the coaches can show them the mistake they made. This is especially true when it comes to defense as they may not realize the exact mistake they made.
 
The high school coach at my school usually didn't pull after one mistake unless it was a player's weakness/mental blocked that had been coached up in practice -- repeatedly sometimes.

But he would pull if the same mistake was made a second time.
 
Don't forget Cougill getting yanked for not catching an ill advised pass. Sure, he should have caught it because it hit him in the hands, but you have to let a kid get in the flow of the game without worrying about making one mistake, especially as a freshman. These guys are thinking way too much on the basketball court.

I wouldn't call it favoritism necessarily, but Lick sure likes to pull on your nutt sack if you don't do it exactly to his liking.
 
hawkeye12345 said:
Don't forget Cougill getting yanked for not catching an ill advised pass. Sure, he should have caught it because it hit him in the hands, but you have to let a kid get in the flow of the game without worrying about making one mistake, especially as a freshman. These guys are thinking way too much on the basketball court.

I wouldn't call it favoritism necessarily, but Lick sure likes to pull on your nutt sack if you don't do it exactly to his liking.
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I respect what you're saying but I disagree only in the sense that I think it depends on the level. And again I don't think you are wrong because that's your philosophy. There's one thing to remember in this discussion....the fact that its college vs HS. I coached both. In HS I for sure would have probably let the dropped pass thing slide or the mental mistake and let the kid play on. You just have to accept that because of their age and limited amount of time you get to work with them. In college its completely different. I would have expected that they be mentally and physically ready to play at any time. Its just the level of commitment they signed up for. Every possession counts so at the college level, not being in the flow? Not that good of an excuse for being ready for a pass. Having your touch on a jump shot? Sure, get the blood flowing first but thats a mental discipline issue as well. As far as missing an assignment, I guess I'd say that would depend on the kid. But I'd be far more apt to yank the kid if I felt he just "wasn't ready". It would also depend on if I felt that we had covered something enough in practice. You don't have a lot of time to decode all that during a game but if you been working on trapping the ball screen all week and then the first time you get in you hedge and recover, your but is getting pulled.

OK I rambled but just trying to show this from a different POV
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