If the Cubs.....

hawkfarmer said:
Nady was just a signing I thought there was no need to make. You have 3 outfileders and you supplement with a 4th from the minors or Hoffpauir has played the corners before. I don't think the need to spend 3.3 million was there when we could've used that to sign a nice reliever. And yes I'm saying that the three years he had before when he played 120 games/year isn't a good measure as he had his second tommy john surgery last year. He has only had 39 at bats I believe you said. He's not going to get a bunch more because Colvin should play ahead of him. yeah he's hitting .178 in 39 at bats. That's why I don't think this was a good signing.

I don't think you should ever sign a player that has just come off of a major injury, for the second time!
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You definitely make some good points...but come on, $3.3mil is chump change to this organization. I think it was a good gamble to take on him. He has put up some good #'s in the past. It's worth signing him to just one year to see if he can get back to that form. They aren't rushing him back either, he's still not ready to be an everyday player (not that he would on this team). He's a guy that could get hot this summer and definitely pay off...we all know Fukudome's production has dwindled as the season goes on.
 
hawkfarmer said:
Nady was just a signing I thought there was no need to make. You have 3 outfileders and you supplement with a 4th from the minors or Hoffpauir has played the corners before. I don't think the need to spend 3.3 million was there when we could've used that to sign a nice reliever. And yes I'm saying that the three years he had before when he played 120 games/year isn't a good measure as he had his second tommy john surgery last year. He has only had 39 at bats I believe you said. He's not going to get a bunch more because Colvin should play ahead of him. yeah he's hitting .178 in 39 at bats. That's why I don't think this was a good signing.

I don't think you should ever sign a player that has just come off of a major injury, for the second time!
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When they signed Nady they had no idea that Tyler was going to be ready. Your suggesting they should have gone into spring training with 3 outfielders (Soriano, Byrd, and Fukudome) praying that Tyler would be ready and Hoffpaur would be ok. That doesnt seem to be a very well thought out plan, espeically given Byrd is a first year player for the Cubs, Fukudome couldnt hit **** off left handed pitching, and Sorian0 ended the year on the DL. Signing Nady to a 1 year deal for relatively little money was a good move when they made it, and its a good move now, regardless of his current batting average.
 
DuffMan said:
When they signed Nady they had no idea that Tyler was going to be ready. Your suggesting they should have gone into spring training with 3 outfielders (Soriano, Byrd, and Fukudome) praying that Tyler would be ready and Hoffpaur would be ok. That doesnt seem to be a very well thought out plan, espeically given Byrd is a first year player for the Cubs, Fukudome couldnt hit **** off left handed pitching, and Sorian0 ended the year on the DL. Signing Nady to a 1 year deal for relatively little money was a good move when they made it, and its a good move now, regardless of his current batting average.
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That's your opinion. I think it was not a good move, since they didn't even know if he would be able to throw half way through spring training. Yes I believe that Hoffpauir would've been fine, and if they didn't think Colvin might be ready, then why invite him to spring training anyway. Surely a first round draft pick 3 years ago would be better than a twice surgically repaired outfielder you're not sure will make it. And the signing isn't about the money. It's about getting a good reliever like Capps for that 3.3 they spent on Nady. I don't think it was a good signing, like I thought the Miles signing was horrible as well. I do think Hoffpauir could've done more with his 39 at bats than Nady.
 
hawkfarmer said:
That's your opinion. I think it was not a good move, since they didn't even know if he would be able to throw half way through spring training. Yes I believe that Hoffpauir would've been fine, and if they didn't think Colvin might be ready, then why invite him to spring training anyway. Surely a first round draft pick 3 years ago would be better than a twice surgically repaired outfielder you're not sure will make it. And the signing isn't about the money. It's about getting a good reliever like Capps for that 3.3 they spent on Nady. I don't think it was a good signing, like I thought the Miles signing was horrible as well. I do think Hoffpauir could've done more with his 39 at bats than Nady.
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Geez, I REALLY wish they would have gotten Capps...that guy has been lights out this year so far! Maybe we could make a bullpen trade with the Nationals? :)
 
DYK88 said:
Man, it really sucks to be having this discussion already! It's definitely been a roller coaster start to the season, I guess it wouldn't be any different with the Cubs.

There are some good posts in this thread...here's my take. I think the June 1 date is a little too soon to pull the plug on the season, unless the are 15+ games out of any postseason contention. A few concerns...Aramis, no idea what is going on with him. Like Shada said, he's at least hitting the ball well now. Him and D-Lee are the anchors of this line-up, we will struggle to be .500 with those guys scuffling. They need to figure out who to get rid of at 2B, toss up with Font and Baker. The OF platoon has been working, playing the hot bat and keeping the guys fresh. As far as pitching, they will never be a true contender unless they A) make some trades/moves or B) they guys we have miraculously get better. It's still too early to panic and concede the season, but it would be nice to start winning some series (3-7 on the season so far).
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I believe I said July 1, and I'm not bailing on D-Lee and Rammy. I think they can turn it around, but if they don't this team will go nowhere (not even close to .500). I think Baker needs to go. My point with Nady isn't the money but the use of the money could've gone to Capps or another releiver. I think the pen will come along too, especially with Z out there, but the O just needs to get more consistent. However, I think if we could deal Rammy I would be fine with that if we got a prospect in return that could play 3B next year. Here's to hoping we're still in the race in July.
 
hawkfarmer said:
However, I think if we could deal Rammy I would be fine with that if we got a prospect in return that could play 3B next year. Here's to hoping we're still in the race in July.
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There isn't a GM in the world that would trade a major league ready third baseman for Aramis Ramirez. None.
 
Right now no. But if he gets his average up to .250, then why not. What if they needed the third baseman now, but the kid wasn't going to be ready until next year, or really wasn't developing as fast as they thought? It's possible.
 
You mean Matt Capps with the 5.80 ERA with a 4-8 record last year? He signed as a free agent with the Nationals because they said he would be given the chance to be their closer. The Cubs had committed to Marmol so Capps was not going to be the closer in Chicago. He is having a good run, but he is not a dominant closer.

The real decision is whether management (as well is the owner) thinks the core of this team will be a contending team going forward. I think it is too early to say, but there needs to be a plan if they fall out of centention for good (in their eyes). It will be interesting if they choose a new direction with a new manager (you know who!).
 
woodyk1 said:
You mean Matt Capps with the 5.80 ERA with a 4-8 record last year? He signed as a free agent with the Nationals because they said he would be given the chance to be their closer. The Cubs had committed to Marmol so Capps was not going to be the closer in Chicago. He is having a good run, but he is not a dominant closer.

The real decision is whether management (as well is the owner) thinks the core of this team will be a contending team going forward. I think it is too early to say, but there needs to be a plan if they fall out of centention for good (in their eyes). It will be interesting if they choose a new direction with a new manager (you know who!).
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I don't think that anyone could think this. That window closed 2 years ago. Now were just paying for what we bought.
 
woodyk1 said:
You mean Matt Capps with the 5.80 ERA with a 4-8 record last year? He signed as a free agent with the Nationals because they said he would be given the chance to be their closer. The Cubs had committed to Marmol so Capps was not going to be the closer in Chicago. He is having a good run, but he is not a dominant closer.

The real decision is whether management (as well is the owner) thinks the core of this team will be a contending team going forward. I think it is too early to say, but there needs to be a plan if they fall out of centention for good (in their eyes). It will be interesting if they choose a new direction with a new manager (you know who!).
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Cubs were in negotiations with him as a setup man. It ended up that the Nationals could give him more money to close. If the money would've been there he'd be a Cub.
 
hawkfarmer said:
That's your opinion. I think it was not a good move, since they didn't even know if he would be able to throw half way through spring training. Yes I believe that Hoffpauir would've been fine, and if they didn't think Colvin might be ready, then why invite him to spring training anyway. Surely a first round draft pick 3 years ago would be better than a twice surgically repaired outfielder you're not sure will make it. And the signing isn't about the money. It's about getting a good reliever like Capps for that 3.3 they spent on Nady. I don't think it was a good signing, like I thought the Miles signing was horrible as well. I do think Hoffpauir could've done more with his 39 at bats than Nady.
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Lot's of people get invited to big league camp that have zero shot at making the team. In this case they invited Colvin to big leage camp to get a better look at him and give him big league experinece. You also invite him in case he's ready, in this case he was.

Hoffpair is a career minor leaguer who hit .239 in limited duty last year and is hitting .191 in Triple A this year. Nady's resume is much much better and it's not even close.

The cubs already have a 3rd baseman in the wings his name is Josh Vitters. Hes hitting well over 300 with power this year. He should be ready to take over 3rd base somewhere around 2012 which coinsides with the expiration of Aramis Ramirez's contract.

Listen I'm sure you are a nice guy, I'm sure you are one hell of a farmer, but you are a lousy GM. It's ok to like guys and to have favorite players, but let's just stick to rooting for the guys we have as oppposed to second guessing all these baseball moves.
 
hawkfarmer said:
Right now no. But if he gets his average up to .250, then why not. What if they needed the third baseman now, but the kid wasn't going to be ready until next year, or really wasn't developing as fast as they thought? It's possible.
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No it's not. It doesn't matter what the guy is hitting. Aramis could be batting .400 and they wouldn't do it. A major league ready guy at 3rd base is like gold, and you don't get rid of one for a rented bat in a playoff chase. And if he "wasn't developing as fast as they thought" how could he be "major league ready"?

Besides if he was truly "major league" ready and they had a real need at 3rd base then they would just call up the prospect. The only way a GM makes a move like that is if they have reason to belive the kid isn't going to pan out in which case you are trading the core of the Cubs team who has 2-3 good years left for a flamed out prospect and you have no one to replace him with because Josh Vitters is two years away.

We'd end up with Bobby Scales playing 3rd base and hiting about .230 with 5 home runs and people like you would be screaming bloody murder cause we let Rammy go for nothing...
 
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DuffMan said:
Lot's of people get invited to big league camp that have zero shot at making the team. In this case they invited Colvin to big leage camp to get a better look at him and give him big league experinece. You also invite him in case he's ready, in this case he was.

Hoffpair is a career minor leaguer who hit .239 in limited duty last year and is hitting .191 in Triple A this year. Nady's resume is much much better and it's not even close.

The cubs already have a 3rd baseman in the wings his name is Josh Vitters. Hes hitting well over 300 with power this year. He should be ready to take over 3rd base somewhere around 2012 which coinsides with the expiration of Aramis Ramirez's contract.

Listen I'm sure you are a nice guy, I'm sure you are one hell of a farmer, but you are a lousy GM. It's ok to like guys and to have favorite players, but let's just stick to rooting for the guys we have as oppposed to second guessing all these baseball moves.
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I'm sure you're good at drinking beer, but I'm a fan and I can second guess all I want. You can second guess all my second guessing all you want. I don't care. I still think the Nady deal sucked, and that Rammy could be traded. Pencil in someone for a year until Vitters is ready (obviously his injury slowed him down) but maybe he could even be ready next year. I'm not say Rammy would get traded, but wouldn't mind if it happened. Right now I would take .237 over .178 and a guy who could back up first base.
 
DuffMan said:
No it's not. It doesn't matter what the guy is hitting. Aramis could be batting .400 and they wouldn't do it. A major league ready guy at 3rd base is like gold, and you don't get rid of one for a rented bat in a playoff chase. And if he "wasn't developing as fast as they thought" how could he be "major league ready"?

Besides if he was truly "major league" ready and they had a real need at 3rd base then they would just call up the prospect. The only way a GM makes a move like that is if they have reason to belive the kid isn't going to pan out in which case you are trading the core of the Cubs team who has 2-3 good years left for a flamed out prospect and you have no one to replace him with because Josh Vitters is two years away.

We'd end up with Bobby Scales playing 3rd base and hiting about .230 with 5 home runs and people like you would be screaming bloody murder cause we let Rammy go for nothing...
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I said a guy that could be ready in a year or so. Plus Baker or Font can play 3B. I wasn't saying he could just take the place of Rammy right now.
 
clicheusername3 said:
I don't think that anyone could think this. That window closed 2 years ago. Now were just paying for what we bought.
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I tend to agree with you, but the changes they have been making seem to point to they still had a shot with this team. It's frustrating, but the players they have are going to be hard to deal unless the Cubs pay a lot of the salary. Maybe they have a run in them still ... :)
 
hawkfarmer said:
Cubs were in negotiations with him as a setup man. It ended up that the Nationals could give him more money to close. If the money would've been there he'd be a Cub.
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Well, not according to this article ...

Matt Capps picks Nationals over Cubs; now he leads majors in saves - Daily Pitch: MLB News, Standings, Schedules & More - USATODAY.com

Bottom line - being a closer was a better career choice.

Now look at the Nationals (17-14 record now) - signed 38 year old catcher (I.Rodriguez). Has Livan Hernandez pitching lights out after being so bad the past few years. Signed Jason Marquis who pitched well before getting hurt. Signed Capps who leads the league in saves. Look who their manager is!

They have not played 1/5 of the season yet.
 
woodyk1 said:
Well, not according to this article ...

Matt Capps picks Nationals over Cubs; now he leads majors in saves - Daily Pitch: MLB News, Standings, Schedules & More - USATODAY.com

Bottom line - being a closer was a better career choice.

Now look at the Nationals (17-14 record now) - signed 38 year old catcher (I.Rodriguez). Has Livan Hernandez pitching lights out after being so bad the past few years. Signed Jason Marquis who pitched well before getting hurt. Signed Capps who leads the league in saves. Look who their manager is!

They have not played 1/5 of the season yet.
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The Nationals are almost guaranteed to make the playoffs now that they have Jason Marquis. Anywhere that guy goes he ends up in the playoffs.
 
busabus114 said:
It all evens out. I would bet that Gorzelanny and Silva have pitched their best baseball of the season. The Cubs arent contenders this season
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Then why even watch?

I mean, if you're going to give up on them after a full month and a week of a 6 month season, there really is no point in even watching.
 
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