If the Cubs.....

[ShadasRevenge]

Forgot about Miles, but he was easy to forget. It seems like the Cubs have a way of signing solid players, and they have a HORRIBLE year their first season as a Cub. Like Moises Alou.. He hit .350 or something like that with the Astros the previous year, then was hitting .230 most of the year as a Cub. I guess the Cubs management didn't get the memo that it's better to buy low and sell high, not the other way around..

That was McPhail operated the team - with tight purse strings. Coming from Minnesota, he was used to operating on a tight budget due to the Vikings keeping most of the money from concessions and parking and whatnot. He ran the Cubs the same way, even thought Chicago is the 3rd largest media market in the country. The best thing that could have happened for the Cubs in my lifetime was McPhail going to Baltimore to run that franchise into the ground, even though Angelos all ready has the process underway.

Speaking of the Twins, it shouldn't be a surprise to anyone that they were able to re-sign Mauer. With the projected revenues from the new yard - revenues that the Twins now get to keep - they'll be bigger players in the free agent market in the years to come.

 

[hawkfarmer]

Where would they put him, their outfield is pretty set.

DH, and marcu Thames isn't that solid of a LF. Neither is soriano obviously, but there could be room for him.

 

[DuffMan]

.

With these big contracts the Cubs haven't been able to help the bullpen much and they have let many young good players go like Fox and Patterson, who are contributing elsewhere.

You lost me here. Which Patterson were you referring to? The one with the lifetime batting average of .226 (Eric) or the one who is currently out of baseball after hitting .103 in 2009 and .205 in 2008 (Corey)? Jake Fox and his .226 average looks like a HOFer compared to those two.

Rammy is 32 which means he has 2-4 years of good baseball left and D-Lee had one of the best years of his career last year. The only bad contract on the team is Soraino's and I can't see anyone taking on the money he's owed at his age.

We might trade some bullpen guys or possibly Silva but I don't see anyone else going anywhere any time soon.

 

[CubHawk1237]

First thing is first....we need to let Lee walk after this year and sign Adrian Gonzalez. We are stuck with Soriano and Zambrano for a couple more years, but I think we need to entertain the possibility of trading them....even if that means eating a good chunk of their contracts.

 

[ShadasRevenge]

You lost me here. Which Patterson were you referring to? The one with the lifetime batting average of .226 (Eric) or the one who is currently out of baseball after hitting .103 in 2009 and .205 in 2008 (Corey)? Jake Fox and his .226 average looks like a HOFer compared to those two.

Rammy is 32 which means he has 2-4 years of good baseball left and D-Lee had one of the best years of his career last year. The only bad contract on the team is Soraino's and I can't see anyone taking on the money he's owed at his age.

We might trade some bullpen guys or possibly Silva but I don't see anyone else going anywhere any time soon.

I like Silva. The Cubs clearly got the better end of that deal, and could probably re-sign him on the cheap if they wanted to keep him. He's been a stud to this point.

 

[hawkfarmer]

DeRosa was also fairly cheap, not to mention one of the most popular guys on a team that had great chemistry and won 95 games the year before. And to make things worse he signed Aaron Miles for about the same amount DeRosa was making, and Miles was absolutely horrible last year.

This is the part that doesn't make sense to me. I also still don't understand the Nady signing. missed all last year with shoulder surgery and the cubs give him 2 years at 2.5 a piece or so. I know colvin wasn't expected to have th spring he had, but give the young guys a chance will ya. How are you ever going to know if they can play if you keep signing free agents that you HAVE to play due to contracts.

 

[cjhawks]

Being 10 games out of the division and 6 games out of the wildcard on 7/1 is not impossible to overcome. It's happened with regularity over the past 4-5 years. Look at Colorado's run a few years ago when they went to the WS. They were dead in the water in mid-July and then just went on an absolute tear to end the season. Same with the Twins in recent years.

If the Cubs can gain any consistency whatsoever offensively, they can be a dangerous team. The pitching has been far from horrible. Gorzelanny has pitched brilliantly, as has Dempster. But they have gotten bupkus for run support.

 

[busabus114]

Being 10 games out of the division and 6 games out of the wildcard on 7/1 is not impossible to overcome. It's happened with regularity over the past 4-5 years. Look at Colorado's run a few years ago when they went to the WS. They were dead in the water in mid-July and then just went on an absolute tear to end the season. Same with the Twins in recent years.

If the Cubs can gain any consistency whatsoever offensively, they can be a dangerous team. The pitching has been far from horrible. Gorzelanny has pitched brilliantly, as has Dempster. But they have gotten bupkus for run support.

It all evens out. I would bet that Gorzelanny and Silva have pitched their best baseball of the season. The Cubs arent contenders this season

 

[DuffMan]

I like Silva. The Cubs clearly got the better end of that deal, and could probably re-sign him on the cheap if they wanted to keep him. He's been a stud to this point.

I can see your point but the only thing the cubs have right now is starting pitching depth. Silva has looked good this year but he was also the worst starting pitcher in baseball over the last 2 years.

If we can get some decent prospects for him (provided we are sellers) after the break I think that makes sense. That being said I'm ok with keeping him as well.

+1,000,000 on Adrian Gonzales. The only problem that leaves is how to cut ties with D Lee gracefully... hmm maybe subliminally pun intended?

 

[DuffMan]

This is the part that doesn't make sense to me. I also still don't understand the Nady signing. missed all last year with shoulder surgery and the cubs give him 2 years at 2.5 a piece or so. I know colvin wasn't expected to have th spring he had, but give the young guys a chance will ya. How are you ever going to know if they can play if you keep signing free agents that you HAVE to play due to contracts.

2 years at 2.5 is a cheap price for veteran bat. He is the most likley person on the roster to get traded at the deadline. Somone will be desparate for a bat at the deadline. He's dirt cheap and he's got a short term deal.

 

[hawkfarmer]

It all evens out. I would bet that Gorzelanny and Silva have pitched their best baseball of the season. The Cubs arent contenders this season

This is the point. And no 10 games back isn't impossible to overcome, but with the cubs it is unlikely.

And Duff, yes those guys haven't been putting up huge numbers, but when with the cubs Fox was putting up some numbers. Much better than Rammy this year. And I was talking about Eric, who plays for the A's. Not a great example, but just one of recent memory.

I think Silva, Gorz, and Nady are all trade bait. That's it.

Also I like the Adrian Gonzalez idea, whoever brought it up. I can't see how D Lee can be resigned after this year.

 

[hawkfarmer]

2 years at 2.5 is a cheap price for veteran bat. He is the most likley person on the roster to get traded at the deadline. Somone will be desparate for a bat at the deadline. He's dirt cheap and he's got a short term deal.

Another bat under .200. Money well spent. Try a minor leaguer. You never know when a Colvin will come out. My point is the Cubs don't trust or build their farm system (with the exception of some pitchers) and they need to do that versus spend tons on free agents.

 

[CubHawk1237]

I can see your point but the only thing the cubs have right now is starting pitching depth. Silva has looked good this year but he was also the worst starting pitcher in baseball over the last 2 years.

If we can get some decent prospects for him (provided we are sellers) after the break I think that makes sense. That being said I'm ok with keeping him as well.

+1,000,000 on Adrian Gonzales. The only problem that leaves is how to cut ties with D Lee gracefully... hmm maybe subliminally pun intended?

Lee is a free agent at the end of this year. There will be nothing tricky about letting him go. Gonzalez is 27 years old, and we could sign him to a 5 year deal and get him in the prime of his career. Yanks, Red Sox and Dodgers already have their 1B, so we won't be in a bidding war against them.
The 8 year deal we gave Soriano was so damn rediculous. Hendry paid him as if he was going to hit 40 + HRs and steal 40+ bases during his time in Chicago. Soriano's age alone should have told Hendry that Soriano wasn't going to continue to steal bases like he had prior coming to Chicago.

 

[DuffMan]

Another bat under .200. Money well spent. Try a minor leaguer. You never know when a Colvin will come out. My point is the Cubs don't trust or build their farm system (with the exception of some pitchers) and they need to do that versus spend tons on free agents.

Over the last 4 years Xavier Nady has hit...
.300
.278
.305
He's got a life time average of .278, hits for power, and drives in runs and you are fixated on the .179 average he has over 39 at bats this season. Colvin suprised everyone this spring and he's with the big club and seeing some playing time. He's going to continue to get more.

Right now the cubs have had a steady stream of players from their minor league system get shots with the big club in the past and virtually none have worked out.... Hill, Cedeno, Patterson (both of them) have all gone on to other teams and have continued to suck.... Others have done well and continue to play significant roles... Soto, The Riot, Fontenot are all still here. Yes the Cubs have made some free agent moves and trades that haven't worked but they have also made several that have. Dempster, Lee, Ramirez, and Byrd (so far) have been great addiitons. Bottom line is you cant consistently build winners using the farm system alone and the cubs have used both the minor leages and free agency to put some pretty good teams together over the last 3 years.

I'm not disagreeing that they should be sellers if they are 10 out come July 1, but pretty much everything else you've thrown out here has been flat wrong. Nothing against you personally you just aren't correct.

 

[hawkfarmer]

Lee is a free agent at the end of this year. There will be nothing tricky about letting him go. Gonzalez is 27 years old, and we could sign him to a 5 year deal and get him in the prime of his career. Yanks, Red Sox and Dodgers already have their 1B, so we won't be in a bidding war against them.
The 8 year deal we gave Soriano was so damn rediculous. Hendry paid him as if he was going to hit 40 + HRs and steal 40+ bases during his time in Chicago. Soriano's age alone should have told Hendry that Soriano wasn't going to continue to steal bases like he had prior coming to Chicago.

Agreed. Also, Samardizja's contract for the next 3 years is:
3 mil, 3.5 mil, and 6.5 mil.

Great contract for a guy that can't make the bullpen for the cubs.

Also my apologies on nady's contract. It is only a 1 year for 3.3 mil.

Ted Lilly is also a FA at the end of the season. What do the cubs do with him? I also believe Randy Wells comes up for Arbitration. As does Theriot, Fontenot, and Marmol (all round 2). Please extend Marmol's contract please.

All contracts and arbitrations can be found here: http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=t9K9o3WvbhtpLNlQbOV9Ulg&output=html

 

[hawkfarmer]

Over the last 4 years Xavier Nady has hit...
.300
.278
.305
He's got a life time average of .278, hits for power, and drives in runs and you are fixated on the .179 average he has over 39 at bats this season. Colvin suprised everyone this spring and he's with the big club and seeing some playing time. He's going to continue to get more.

Right now the cubs have had a steady stream of players from their minor league system get shots with the big club in the past and virtually none have worked out.... Hill, Cedeno, Patterson (both of them) have all gone on to other teams and have continued to suck.... Others have done well and continue to play significant roles... Soto, The Riot, Fontenot are all still here. Yes the Cubs have made some free agent moves and trades that haven't worked but they have also made several that have. Dempster, Lee, Ramirez, and Byrd (so far) have been great addiitons. Bottom line is you cant consistently build winners using the farm system alone and the cubs have used both the minor leages and free agency to put some pretty good teams together over the last 3 years.

I'm not disagreeing that they should be sellers if they are 10 out come July 1, but pretty much everything else you've thrown out here has been flat wrong. Nothing against you personally you just aren't correct.

First of all, half the stuff you are saying is wrong as well. Fontenot wasn't in the cubs systems he came over from teh Orioles in the Sosa trade. And Nady didn't play last year, who cares about the previous three years. And those years were when he was a full time player, not a play 2 times a week player.

You can't say everything I have said is wrong. I have voiced opinion, and though you may disagree with my opinion you can't say everything I say is wrong.

Also, I never said NO free agents. Yes you need some, but not ones that you have to give 5 year 60 to 100 million to. You can do that once or twice but not to 5 or 6 players at a time.

Finally, preceeding the statement "everything you say is wrong" with "nothing against you but" doesn't work.

The only thing that may have been wrong is the success of players that have been traded, though I think with Fox, if he stays a cub he would have been successful.

 

[DuffMan]

First of all, half the stuff you are saying is wrong as well. Fontenot wasn't in the cubs systems he came over from teh Orioles in the Sosa trade. And Nady didn't play last year, who cares about the previous three years. And those years were when he was a full time player, not a play 2 times a week player.

You can't say everything I have said is wrong. I have voiced opinion, and though you may disagree with my opinion you can't say everything I say is wrong.

Also, I never said NO free agents. Yes you need some, but not ones that you have to give 5 year 60 to 100 million to. You can do that once or twice but not to 5 or 6 players at a time.

Finally, preceeding the statement "everything you say is wrong" with "nothing against you but" doesn't work.

The only thing that may have been wrong is the success of players that have been traded, though I think with Fox, if he stays a cub he would have been successful.

1) You build a minor leage system through the draft and through trades. It doesn't matter who drafted him, he is a product of the cubs minor league system and it's minor league scouting system.

2) Xavier Nady didn't play last year because he was recovering from Tommy John surgery. In the three years prior he played around 120 games year meaning he was a borderline full time player at best. He was brought here to be a 4th outfielder and he's getting 4th out fielder money.

3) Again the only long term high dollar free agent contract the Cubs have is Soriano. DLee is up at the end of the year. Rammy has a player option next year with a club option in 2012 for around 15 mil for each. Big Z has a high dollar long term contract but he was not a FA signing, he was drafted, signed, and developed in the cubs farm system.

4) Fox was a nice hitter but he wasn't suited to be a National League player, he plays no defesnive position well. Further more the Cubs didnt just give him away. They packaged him and Aaron Miles in a deal to get Jeff Gray a relief pitcher who broke with the big league club (though he struggled and recently was optioned to AAA); another solid pitching prospect; and Matt Spencer who is a 6-4 corner outfieldiner/first basement who is currently hitting close to .400 in double AA.

 

[woodyk1]

The problem the Cubs saw with Fox was what position to play him at. He will be 28 in July. They wanted to get some value for him. I don't always agree with what the Cubs do with their young players, but I was not too worried about Fox becoming a starter for the Cubs at 3B, 1B, OF, or C with the Cubs. He is an absolute butcher in the field (and that is comparing him to Soriano!). We got rid of Miles in the same trade as well.

I do think that long term success for a franchise is the minor league system needs to fill in holes. The Yankees, Red Sox, Rays, Cards, Phillies, and Rockies (to name a few) have been able to do that over the years. It seems the Cubs have some young players that may pan out, but they are having to rush them a little bit. Castro is the first player born in the 1990s to play MLB (I am old!). I hope it works out in the long run.

 

[hawkfarmer]

Nady was just a signing I thought there was no need to make. You have 3 outfileders and you supplement with a 4th from the minors or Hoffpauir has played the corners before. I don't think the need to spend 3.3 million was there when we could've used that to sign a nice reliever. And yes I'm saying that the three years he had before when he played 120 games/year isn't a good measure as he had his second tommy john surgery last year. He has only had 39 at bats I believe you said. He's not going to get a bunch more because Colvin should play ahead of him. yeah he's hitting .178 in 39 at bats. That's why I don't think this was a good signing.

I don't think you should ever sign a player that has just come off of a major injury, for the second time!

 

[DYK88]

Man, it really sucks to be having this discussion already! It's definitely been a roller coaster start to the season, I guess it wouldn't be any different with the Cubs.

There are some good posts in this thread...here's my take. I think the June 1 date is a little too soon to pull the plug on the season, unless the are 15+ games out of any postseason contention. A few concerns...Aramis, no idea what is going on with him. Like Shada said, he's at least hitting the ball well now. Him and D-Lee are the anchors of this line-up, we will struggle to be .500 with those guys scuffling. They need to figure out who to get rid of at 2B, toss up with Font and Baker. The OF platoon has been working, playing the hot bat and keeping the guys fresh. As far as pitching, they will never be a true contender unless they A) make some trades/moves or B) they guys we have miraculously get better. It's still too early to panic and concede the season, but it would be nice to start winning some series (3-7 on the season so far).