You had me at "I have said repeatedly..."
I really wish Jon would answer these questions.....
- Thread starter Playmaker
- Start date
The other 'camp' only has an attention span of about 15-20 words tops.......So most of what you wrote is wasted on them...
tksirius
HN's Love Doctor
I see what you did there, even if it was unintentional...
ArvadaHawk
Well-Known Member
This season is not following up the 12-0 and that is what helps lead you to higher sustained levels of winning; because winning impacts recruiting. Does anyone see more than 6 wins, this season, with 14 returning starters?
Noting that UM, TN, PSU, etc are not immune to falling into extended lulls, is correct. No school is. Iowa, however, stays with the known commodity of 7-5. From a record standpoint, we aren't seeing the "go for it" to reach higher sustained levels of winning (3 our of 5 years, I agree, would be acceptable at Iowa.) We sure saw it between '02 & '04, so we know it's possible at Iowa and under this coach. But it isn't happening under this coach, any longer.
12-0 should always be considered a treat at Iowa, but 9-3 shouldn't be. The choice is going for it and putting up with lulls, or not going for it and still putting up with lulls. Iowa is safe football.
deanvogs
Well-Known Member
If you take a snapshot of a 5 years span like you did, sure either could look better, just depending on what 5 years you look at. Dantonio had a nice 5-6 year run, but with Harbaugh in town, that is over.
If you compare Iowa to MSU over the last 15 years (since '00) they are pretty identical.
Iowa 131-80
MSU 127-83
B1G championships 2 vs 3
Top 10 finishes 5 vs 4
BCS bowl games 3 & 3
Go back 35 years to encapsulate Hayden (Since 1980) and it becomes clear that Iowa is a better program over the last 35 years.
Iowa 270-173
MSU 240-197
tksirius
HN's Love Doctor
Are you from Nebraska?
deanvogs
Well-Known Member
MSU record over the last 5 years is much, much better than Michigan. Is MSU a better program than Michigan? Programs aren't judged by a 5 year time frame.
jldhawk
Well-Known Member
And that's the problem. Why shouldn't we be on par on an almost annual basis? Sure, not every year can we be but take a look at what they have done the last 6-7 years. Kirk has never came close to that sustained success except for his 3 straight top 8 finishes. That was the height of his program and it has been mostly down hill since then. Call a spade a spade.
jldhawk
Well-Known Member
LOL CECILB... Facts are crazy aren't they.
deanvogs
Well-Known Member
We have been on par with them over the last 15 years. They are just at the end of their good run is all. That good run by them put them about even with us over the last 15 years.
LOL to those who thing MSU is some program that will stick with longevity.
If is funny how stupid fans can be. If you want to look at longer term success over a decade or 15 years look at Wisconsin. They have been much better and much more consistently good than MSU.
hawkdrummer1
Well-Known Member
Bingo. And our admin is stupid enough to pay it.
There's just going to be a difference in opinion as to what the 'value' of a KF is. One reason he is paid well is because for Iowa to have any high level coach they'd have to pay as much as the big boys pay or more to compete for their services. So whether it's KF or any other high profile coach the going rate is what it is to keep up with the Joneses. Iowa on their next hire could go for an up and coming nobody similar to what KF was when he first got there and not pay as much out of the gates. But if they were to go for any of the top minds in the game they'd have to shell out more probably to land them.
Now as far as expectations go I too am frustrated by how the staffs expectations basically are to compete in the West. I don't think it's to get to the playoffs and win it all like they ought to be either. Now is it realistic to think Iowa can year in and year out? Probably not. But is it to unrealistic to think coming off the year they had last yr with a senior qb returning along with everyone else we all know about is? Granted Vandeberg got hurt but he wasn't going to be an end all be all difference maker in any of the recent games we've lost. This year sure is setting up to be bad. Worse than 2014 was especially considering the expectations involved....
Now as far as expectations go I too am frustrated by how the staffs expectations basically are to compete in the West. I don't think it's to get to the playoffs and win it all like they ought to be either. Now is it realistic to think Iowa can year in and year out? Probably not. But is it to unrealistic to think coming off the year they had last yr with a senior qb returning along with everyone else we all know about is? Granted Vandeberg got hurt but he wasn't going to be an end all be all difference maker in any of the recent games we've lost. This year sure is setting up to be bad. Worse than 2014 was especially considering the expectations involved....
I understand lulls etc., there are injuries and things you can't foresee, but what should those lulls be? When you factor in everything ...longevity of staff, facilities, fan base, conference, patsy non-con schedule, numerous NFL players, most players staying 4-5 years etc. in my opinion being a top 25 program each year should not be beyond expectations. A "down" year we should be just outside the top 25 and in a bowl game still. Just my two cents, top 25-30 is not too much to ask and realistic IMO. I can pick at least 11-12 teams in the top 25 right now that, in my opinion, Iowa should be as good or better than with what we have to work with. Maybe I have us on a higher pedestal than we deserve program and institution wise.
Post contract KF teams most often look poorly coached, poorly motivated, boring and borderline inept. With this on the table and visible to all (well, most)...KF digs in with his stubbornness, and reverts back to default Kirk...keep it close, bore the fans (and athletic recruits) to death and shoot for that "no one cares" bowl berth. I guess it works, he has been around longer than grandma's China Cabinet...the forgiving, adoring and desperate Iowa fans bite on it for decades...
homes
Well-Known Member
The salary he earns is irrelevant to me. Iowa agreed to pay it. He's not giving the money back, it's not his fault Iowa made the offer.
I don't believe that fans' opinion of Ferentz and the success (or lack thereof) of the team has anything to do with his salary at the end of the day. By this I mean, I doubt that if Ferentz was being paid considerably less (say, $500,000 a year) that fans would feel any better about how the team is doing. I just can't imagine the following fan comment being made, "Of course we can't expect better results, the coach is only making $500,000 a year."
I don't believe that fans' opinion of Ferentz and the success (or lack thereof) of the team has anything to do with his salary at the end of the day. By this I mean, I doubt that if Ferentz was being paid considerably less (say, $500,000 a year) that fans would feel any better about how the team is doing. I just can't imagine the following fan comment being made, "Of course we can't expect better results, the coach is only making $500,000 a year."
Here's my issue: If we're not allowed to talk about the contract and its effect on the team, then there's really nothing to talk about. This is the product that you're going to get for the next 9 years. The recruiting class is falling apart. You're going to get years of an average of 7-5, with very little hope of improvement. And your sole role in following this team (in the eyes of the university) is to buy the tickets, buy the gear, and shut the h*ll up. You can either do that, or walk.
That's a boring conversation that probably ends in walking. So yeah, especially in this failed year, the contract is the issue of discussion. It colors everything else on the field. Want to talk about changing something on the field? Sorry...$4.5M and buyout means nothing changes. Want to talk recruiting? Sorry...$4.5M a year for a guy who doesn't recruit above 3* players and self-admittedly doesn't like recruiting means it's pretty pointless.
Frankly, I'd rather talk about the AD's contract. I bet his buyout is a lot more affordable.
That's a boring conversation that probably ends in walking. So yeah, especially in this failed year, the contract is the issue of discussion. It colors everything else on the field. Want to talk about changing something on the field? Sorry...$4.5M and buyout means nothing changes. Want to talk recruiting? Sorry...$4.5M a year for a guy who doesn't recruit above 3* players and self-admittedly doesn't like recruiting means it's pretty pointless.
Frankly, I'd rather talk about the AD's contract. I bet his buyout is a lot more affordable.
DBAHawkFan
Well-Known Member
The perception I see Iowa football as (from Cali) is that we have upgraded all of our facilities to world class so that our staff can take low level recruits and turn them into potential NFL players.
We are a farm system for the NFL. This is why we have a small playbook, and only focus on fundamentals versus scheming against specific tendencies of an opponent. When was the last time we applauded our offense for brilliant scheme/coaching against an opponent? 2013 OSU?
I don't mind being a developmental program, but it's the vanilla schemes every year and the lack of any sort of aggression on both sides of the ball that do most of us in.
I am not sure what the $ is going to with this program other than to achieve 7-5 with the occasional GREAT year sprinkled in, but hey KF is a stand up guy and we have quite a few players in the NFL to represent the school!!!
We are a farm system for the NFL. This is why we have a small playbook, and only focus on fundamentals versus scheming against specific tendencies of an opponent. When was the last time we applauded our offense for brilliant scheme/coaching against an opponent? 2013 OSU?
I don't mind being a developmental program, but it's the vanilla schemes every year and the lack of any sort of aggression on both sides of the ball that do most of us in.
I am not sure what the $ is going to with this program other than to achieve 7-5 with the occasional GREAT year sprinkled in, but hey KF is a stand up guy and we have quite a few players in the NFL to represent the school!!!
NikeHawk21
Well-Known Member
So in essence what you are saying is that you'd rather have 15 years of mediocrity then 5 years of sustained excellence? Dantonio has an overall record at MSU 72.5%, KF at Iowa is below 60%. Since 07 when Dantonio started KF is roughly 63% to Dantonio 72.5%. What is your argument again?
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"12-0 should be considered a treat"
Just read that again will you.
In the last 5 years there has been 7 teams TOTAL that went 12-0 to start the year, SEVEN.
And Iowa was one of them.
Not MSU, not Nebraska, not Wisconsin, not Michigan, not any other Big 10 team other than Ohio State once.
Sure talk about the schedule, etc but to say that 12-0 should be considered a treat is laughable when you are talking about the only time in the history of the program of that happening. Or the fact that about 100 other football programs would take that in a heart beat. I also agree that 8-4 or 9-3 should be a regular occurrence but the loss to a top 10 ranked Wisconsin team and the coaches pulling the offer of a 17 year old HS kid doesn't mean the world is ending.
Should we have lost to NDSU or NW? No, but shit happens.
KF has his faults no doubt I just love that people just brush aside what was accomplished last year and can't realize that just because on paper you think a team should be better than they are doesn't mean it will happen. Hell talk to MSU fans, Oregon fans, etc. about how their season is going this year.