I am liking the GD hire more and more

hogeye said:
Whatever you claim make this argument clear cut, but since you can't provide them I'll accept that white flag.
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Brad Banks had one of the best seasons ever for an Iowa QB. Here are the stats.

Brad Banks Profile - Iowa Official Athletic Site


Drew Tate improved noticibly between his soph and junior year. He finished his career as arguably the 2nd best Iowa QB ever, and was top ten career in the B10 in many areas. Here are the stats.

Drew Tate Profile - Iowa Official Athletic Site

Ricki Stanzi made enormous improvements from his sophmore to his senior year and fished his career as the 2nd best Iowa QB ever and an NFL draft pick. Here are the stats.

Ricky Stanzi Profile - Iowa Official Athletic Site

JVB had the 2nd best season ever for an Iowa 1st year QB starter. Here are his stats.

James Vandenberg Profile - Iowa Official Athletic Site
 
I see cherry picking of stats and ignoring stats that don't support your claim. For instance, you just can't dodge Christensen enough in every single reply. You're quick to excuse Chandler.

Like I said, we can disagree, but what I can see is that when all stats from all QB's are taken into consideration...the one consistency is inconsistency.
 
hogeye said:
I see cherry picking of stats and ignoring stats that don't support your claim. For instance, you just can't dodge Christensen enough in every single reply. You're quick to excuse Chandler.

Like I said, we can disagree, but what I can see is that when all stats from all QB's are taken into consideration...the one consistency is inconsistency.
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Jake was the lone egg on the resume. It's also well known that KOK identified this early and pushed for Stanzi to start. No excuse needed for Chandler. He had below average tools and turned in a solid season. That speaks pretty highly of his coaches.

Your argument is rediculous. Of course different players are going to put up different stats. It's stupid to think that all QB's over the course of a decade are going to put up similar stats. That's like railing on a RB coach because not all of our RB's have put up stats similar to SG.

Name one other team in the B10 that's had more "consistency" from thier QB's.
 
This staff needed an injection. I like the coaching changes. I like the "energy" that seems to be coming out of Iowa City. Change can be good. As I preached many, many times, you can't work with the same 10 or so co-workers for 13 years and expect things to change much. You get comfortable in the way you do things and sometimes you don't see that the world outside your room is changing and you are not changing with it. These changes will be good for the program ... on many fronts.
 
DuffMan said:
Your argument is rediculous. Of course different players are going to put up different stats. It's stupid to think that all QB's over the course of a decade are going to put up similar stats. That's like railing on a RB coach because not all of our RB's have put up stats similar to SG.
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My argument isn't that different players will put up different stats. You are the one basing your argument on stats. I base things on more than stats.

However, you stated that the stats clearly demonstrate that KOK was great at developing QB's and I contested and you have failed to demonstrate that. So, since you can't, we'll just agree to disagree.

Name one other team in the B10 that's had more "consistency" from thier QB's.
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This statement demonstrates two things. First, that you don't comprehend my point and secondly that you want to continue to evade responsibility from defending your point.

To answer your question, within the context of my view of developing QB's, Northwestern immediately has done a better job. Michigan, under Carr, did a better job and they have done fantastic job under the new regime implementing Denard.

I could do more, but you asked for one.
 
Yeah... now yer just talking circles. You wan't stats but you base things on more than stats...

Bottom line is nobody in the B10 has done more with less at the QB position over the last ten years than KOK. People are going to question play calling and scoring and I undertand that, but those whose criticisms include QB play simply because he was also the QB coach and they railed on him for everything else are just plain idiotic.

Your last line alone tells me all I need to know. You praise scUM for how well they've implimented Dennard Robinson into the new offense. Last year Shoelace saw his completion percentage drop from 63% to 55%, he threw for 600 fewer yards, 4 more interceptions, his QB rating dropped ten points, his rushing yards dropped by over 500 yards, and his ypc dropped by 1.3. That's a bang up coaching job there.

You sure do have a great eye for QB play and good QB coaching.
 
DuffMan said:
Yeah... now yer just talking circles. You wan't stats but you base things on more than stats...
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I want you to back up your trash talk. You made the statement, not I. Yet you can't back it up.

Your last line alone tells me all I need to know. You praise scUM for how well they've implimented Dennard Robinson into the new offense. Last year Shoelace saw his completion percentage drop from 63% to 55%, he threw for 600 fewer yards, 4 more interceptions, his QB rating dropped ten points, his rushing yards dropped by over 500 yards, and his ypc dropped by 1.3. That's a bang up coaching job there.

You sure do have a great eye for QB play and good QB coaching.
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Yeah, I praise UM for plugging a QB that doesn't fit their system in and winning 11 games with him. They aren't trying to "develop" Denard into something he isn't. They're integrating him, adapting to him, and winning football games.

Being a good OC and QB coach isn't about just developing players. It's about developing the offense. But, clearly you think otherwise. Mr. IRelyOnStats is going to tell me Michigan did a bad job with Denard last year...that's laughable right there.
 
LOL scUM didnt win 11 games because of Shoelace, they won 11 games because they played defense.

2010 ppg 33
2010 ppg allowed 35

2011 ppg 33
2011 ppg allowed 17
 
hogeye said:
I want you to back up your trash talk. You made the statement, not I. Yet you can't back it up.
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Hogeye, you're the one who initiated the discussion on QBs, you're the one who said "the stats are completely inconsistent from QB to QB. Which proves my point." - then failed to provide any.

It is incumbent on YOU to back up your point. Please do so.
 
Billso said:
Hogeye, you're the one who initiated the discussion on QBs, you're the one who said "the stats are completely inconsistent from QB to QB. Which proves my point." - then failed to provide any.

It is incumbent on YOU to back up your point. Please do so.
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No, you're wrong. If you go back to that very reply you'll see the context of that is referencing Duff's ridiculous statement where he claims the stats back up his perception.

So, you're right, I did say that...when I look at the stats they are inconsistent in supporting that argument. I am not the one predicating my argument on stats, Duff is doing that. All I said is that when I look at the stats I don't see them supporting his point.

It's incumbent on him to prove his point. He is the one relying on the stats to support his argument. All I did is cited reason as to why I don't believe that is true.
 
i like the gd hire. i think a change was needed. yet kok was better with qbs than people understand. maybe he was the best at developing the (debatable) but he tailored the offense to fit their skill sets more often than not.

brad banks - was terrible at reading defensive coverage (been told this by coaches and players in the system or jucos that played with or against him). but kok used basic concepts he could use and got him out of the pocket for run pass capabilities.

drew tate - gun slinger with a great mind for the game. spread the offense out a little more and used more shotgun and 1 back sets. again mobile and got him moving.

ricky stanzi - used a lot of bootleg and waggle and playaction because he was very good at selling fakes to help get people to commit. used medium to deep pass routes mainly as ricky struggled with short throws.

jake christianson (sp?) - i am looking at the yr he was the true starter and didnt split time with ricky. he used a lot of roll out as jake had good feet and the line was shaky at best to try to keep jake upright.

jvb - this is the one place i am not sure of. he looked great out of shotgun. but be honest he looked great under center. as long as those things were in kinnick stadium. kf and kok were always more conservative on the road and maybe that caused more problems than anything as sometimes you have to let the stallion run free. jvb made reads well from both styles so they used both makes sense. the problem with him was road home as is most qbs.

i dont want to go through everything from each qb but kok was better at planning with their strengths than we give him credit for. he struggled with in game adjustments and some say development. but really he developed ricky into a drafted qb which we havent had in awhile and banks wasnt a pro type qb, nor was tate or chandler but we won with them by his planning.

the davis hire will be a good one. but kok was a victim of blame on the oc as most teams see. he was better at his job than most will give him credit for.
 
...1st off....KOK is known in his industry as a developer of QB's. Does anybody HONESTLY think that Joe Philbin would hire KOK as his QB coach if his pedigree weren't excellent?
Brad Banks....nuff said.
Nathan Chandler took his team to a 10 win season and a #8 ranking.
Drew Tate was a great college quarterback...period. The only thing that kept him from going down as maybe the 2nd best QB ever for us was a injury riddled Senior season.
Jake........not so much.
Ricky Stanzi....zero to hero. 2009 was our year to run the table and only an ankle injury to Ricky kept us from it.
JVB had a fine 1st year...the team not so much.
This year...we shall see.

KOK may have had some problems as an OC....as a developer of QB's...he was fantastic.
 
An interesting read this thread.

I like the GD hire. I'll get to hear him on Tuesday. I think I'll like the hire even more.

I'll probably really like him even more in 2013 and 2014 I'd guess. This season will be an interesting one to watch.
 
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